Christian inconsistancy about the Law

[Open Heart]

It's important enough for Jeremiah, and Ezekiel to point out that God will reunite Israel and Judah when he makes a new covenant with them.

Those are kingdoms, not tribes. And as for that, we know that refugees from the northern kingdom came south and lived in Judah. Thus when Babylon took Judah into captivity, it took all of the tribes.

I'm looking at the fact that the Sabbath was created long before there was a Hebrew, or Israelite or the tribe of Judah. The fact that God makes a covenant with his chosen people doesn't negate the fact that one doesn't have to be a Hebrew, Israelite, or a Jew to keep and observe it.

The Sabbath wasn't just made for Jews, but for all human beings. It is for everyone's benefit as are all of God's feast days.

There is no commandment given to any non-Jew to keep the sabbath. The first recorded incidence of keeping the sabbath is when the Jews are in the wilderness and are not to get manna on the sabbath.

So, yeah, the commandment to keep the sabbath has only been given to Israel. If you personally want to take a day off, that's probably a healthy thing for you to do, and I support you. But you are not obligated by God's law to do so, since you are not part of the People of Israel.

 

[shnarkle]

You are making points that do not negate anything I have said.

My points negate the fact that your claims spotlight that you're not adhering to your obligation to be a priest to the world. A nation of priests does not minister to themselves.

 

[shnarkle]

Paul can claim to be a pharisee all he wants, but what he taught was contrary to Pharisaical teachings. Thus, I don't believe for a moment that he was ever a Pharisee.

Paul is still misunderstood. That doesn't mean his teachings are contrary to Pharisaic teachings. Pharisees disagree with each other as well as other sects of Judaism.

 

[Open Heart]

My points negate the fact that your claims spotlight that you're not adhering to your obligation to be a priest to the world. A nation of priests does not minister to themselves.

You don't know me personally. Who are you to imagine that I'm not adhering to my obligation to be a priestly person to the world. You really have a lot of chutzpah.

 

[Open Heart]

Paul is still misunderstood. That doesn't mean his teachings are contrary to Pharisaic teachings. Pharisees disagree with each other as well as other sects of Judaism.

Pharisees do not disagree on the primary importants of Jews obeying the Torah. Paul did. Thus, he was not a Pharisee.

 

[shnarkle]

Those are kingdoms, not tribes.

A distinction with no effective difference. Israel consists of the northern tribes while Judah consisted of Judah, Levi, and Benjamin.

And as for that, we know that refugees from the northern kingdom came south and lived in Judah.

Not all of them. Not the ones who were taken into captivity by the Assyrians.

Thus when Babylon took Judah into captivity, it took all of the tribes.

Except of course for those who went into captivity after the Assyrian invasion.

There is no commandment given to any non-Jew to keep the sabbath.

I never said there was.

The first recorded incidence of keeping the sabbath is when the Jews are in the wilderness and are not to get manna on the sabbath.

Note what the text states: " on the fifteenth day of the second month after their departing out of the land of Egypt....And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?"

How long??? They've only been out of Egypt for a couple weeks!!! He hasn't even given them the command to keep the Sabbath yet! They all knew when the Sabbath was as did their ancestors, but they were in bondage, and it was time for them to get with the program. It doesn't then follow that everyone else is in need of remedial instruction from God.

So, yeah, the commandment to keep the sabbath has only been given to Israel.

Evidently, they were the only ones who needed this pointed out to them.

If you personally want to take a day off, that's probably a healthy thing for you to do, and I support you.

Just FYI, the Sabbath was created and sanctified by God resting in it. This doesn't apply to any other day. Your support should be in line with God's will, not your own.

But you are not obligated by God's law to do so, since you are not part of the People of Israel

Again, one does not have to be a part of the people of Israel to keep God's law. Some people don't need a codified law in order to do the right thing in the first place. Some people don't need to be told that it's wrong to murder, steal, commit adultery, etc. In other words, some people don't see it as an obligation in the first place. We just automatically, and instinctively are repulsed by murder, theft, fornication, etc.

Again, that shining city on the hill is there to draw the rest of the world to God's kingdom rather than pointing out that you're somehow different than everyone else, and see no point in drawing anyone else into God's fold. Drop the ball much?

 

[shnarkle]

You don't know me personally.

I know what you're posting here.

Who are you to imagine that I'm not adhering to my obligation to be a priestly person to the world.

Because you're posts indicate that you have no interest at all. In fact, you've repeatedly pointe out that everyone else isn't required to observe the Sabbath, or any of God's commandments. This isn't exactly a warm invitation to minister as a priest to the rest of the world.

You really have a lot of chutzpah.

You're projecting again.

 

[Open Heart]

A distinction with no effective difference. Israel consists of the northern tribes while Judah consisted of Judah, Levi, and Benjamin.

Not all of them. Not the ones who were taken into captivity by the Assyrians.

You are factually mistaken. As I said, refugees from the northern kingdom of Israel fled tot he southern kingdom. There, they became part of the nation, and went into captivity in Babylon, where they were called Jews.

Just FYI, the Sabbath was created and sanctified by God resting in it. This doesn't apply to any other day. Your support should be in line with God's will, not your own.

God resting on the sabbath day and making it holy does not imply a command for anyone to rest on that day. Such a command was only ever given to the People of Israel. You cannot find any command given to any non-Israelite, like Adam or Noah.

 

[Open Heart]

I know what you're posting here.

and since I don't post about my private life, you know nothing of it. You are not a mind reader.

 

[shnarkle]

You are factually mistaken.

I'm pointing out that the northern tribes didn't all go into captivity in Babylon. If someone from each of the northern tribes escapes back to Judah, and then goes into captivity in Babylon, it doesn't then follow that all the tribes are in Babylon.

As I said, refugees from the northern kingdom of Israel fled tot he southern kingdom.

Got it the first time. It's not much of a point to begin with.

God resting on the sabbath day and making it holy does not imply a command for anyone to rest on that day.

Where did I suggest otherwise???

Such a command was only ever given to the People of Israel.

Evidently, they need this to be pointed out to them.

You cannot find any command given to any non-Israelite, like Adam or Noah.

Where did I ever suggest they needed God to command them to keep the Sabbath?

 

[shnarkle]

and since I don't post about my private life, you know nothing of it. You are not a mind reader.

I don't have to read minds to know that you're not interested in being part of that shining city on the hill. You're more interested in separating yourself from others rather than drawing anyone into the fold. I'm basing my claims exclusively by what you've been posting so far.

 

[Open Heart]

I'm pointing out that the northern tribes didn't all go into captivity in Babylon.

Well, not all of the southern tribes did either. The Babylonians only took the intellectuals, leaving the others behind. But of those they took into captivity, there were some from EVERY tribe. Thus it is factually incorrect to say that only Benjamintes, Judahites, and Levites were taken into captivity.

Evidently, they need this to be pointed out to them.

It's not a matter of "pointing out" a command. It's a matter of the giving of a command in the first place. You cannot show any instance of God ever EVER commanding a gentile to keep the shabbat. Only Israel.

Where did I ever suggest they needed God to command them to keep the Sabbath?

Well, can you think of any other tribal people or nation that keeps the Sabbath? No, of course not. Because keeping the sabbath is not the default position. You have to be told by God to keep the sabbath in order to get the idea.

 

[Open Heart]

I don't have to read minds to know that you're not interested in being part of that shining city on the hill.

Well you happen to be WRONG. Dead wrong. And extraordinarily arrogant for thinking you can see how someone lives their life outside of your own vision.

 

[shnarkle]

It's not a matter of "pointing out" a command. It's a matter of the giving of a command in the first place.

Same difference

You cannot show any instance of God ever EVER commanding a gentile to keep the shabbat. Only Israel.

I keep pointing that out to you, yet you still don't seem to comprehend why.

Well, can you think of any other tribal people or nation that keeps the Sabbath?

Plenty of people keep the Sabbath SDA, Anabaptists, etc.

Because keeping the sabbath is not the default position.

Actually, it kinda is.

You have to be told by God to keep the sabbath in order to get the idea.

And yet there are plenty of people who have never been told by God to keep the Sabbath, yet they keep it religiously.

 

[shnarkle]

Well you happen to be WRONG.

Actually, I'm spot on. It wouldn't bother you so much if it weren't true.

Dead wrong. And extraordinarily arrogant for thinking you can see how someone lives their life outside of your own vision.

I'm going exclusively by your posts. Your posts bear no resemblance to someone who is interested in being part of that shining city on the hill. You're more interested in separating yourself from others than attracting them to a better life. Your posts spotlight your inclusion in a private club that no one else is allowed to join.

 

[Open Heart]

I keep pointing that out to you, yet you still don't seem to comprehend why.

The "why" is obvious. it is not a sin for non-Jews to not keep the sabbath. It is not sin for you.

Plenty of people keep the Sabbath SDA, Anabaptists, etc.

These are religious groups. I asked for tribes and nations. If it is the default position, we should see the sabbath widely observed in a multitude of cultures over the earth, and we do NOT.

And yet there are plenty of people who have never been told by God to keep the Sabbath, yet they keep it religiously.

Sure. And they are doing something unecessary. There is nothing particularly wrong about taking a day off work -- I think it is a healthy thing actually. But it is not obligatory for non-Jews.

 

[Open Heart]

I'm going exclusively by your posts.

The only evidence I've ever given in my posts is in my claims that I do have a conservative level of observance of teh 613. So you are wrong, the little that I do say about that matter in my private life proves you wrong.

Shnarkle, this whole subthread is against the rules. You are not supposed to be attacking me personally. Please respond to the arguments that I make regarding theology. Do not make this personal. I give you the same consideration. Thanks for underststanding.

 

[Iconoclast]

agree


1. which is not the Sabbath, Christians have a different Rest
2. a different priesthood than the Levitical
3. the Church is a new Creation, not a part of the Jewish nation

Hello AG.
Glad we agree on some things already.
Heb 4:9 uses a unique word which means the keeping of a sabbath.

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/sabbath-rest

A superior priesthood by virtue of an Everlasting High Priest.
Yes,a new Creation. The antitype.
Jesus as the elect Covenant Son,ex4:22,isa49:1-8
Elect Remnant out of Israel,rom9,10,11
Elect Gentiles grafted into the root promises
He is the head,we are the teknon, the children of promise, not the sperma, children of the flesh.
Romans 9:1-8

 

[Iconoclast]

Non-Jews are not required to keep the sabbath.

Yes they are. You can invent so called Noahic laws, but that teaching is defective.
All men everywhere, rain Forrest, north pole,all under law.

 

[Iconoclast]

Keeping the sabbath is not meant for the whole world.

Deut 5
12 “Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns, so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

Your ancestors were never delivered from slavery in Egypt, thus you are exempt.

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/sabbath-rest