Christian inconsistancy about the Law

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American Gothic

Well-known member
Rachel Redux said:
Not sure who you're addressing but can you show me where I've claimed to be "kosher?"
Also, if I wanted to be a Jew, I'd convert.
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I don't know if you are trying to be kosher or not, and it wouldn't be my business unless you shared that
and if you were, and I was around you, I would respect and defer to that for your good
what one Jesus believer does on this issue is their prerogative
if someone observes Sabbath in some way that's cool
Trying to Keep it Lawfully is a different matter entirely
if you wanted to be Religiously Judaistic
and accepted as part of Israel, you would convert

I also personally have nothing against cultural appropriation.
 
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Rachel Redux

Rachel Redux

Active member
American Gothic said:
I don't know if you are trying to be kosher or not, and it wouldn't be my business unless you shared that
and if you were, and I was around you, I would respect and defer to that for your good
what one Jesus believer does on this issue is their prerogative
if someone observes Sabbath in some way that's cool
Trying to Keep it Lawfully is a different matter entirely
if you wanted to be Religiously Judaistic
and accepted as part of Israel, you would convert

I also personally have nothing against cultural appropriation.
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My Heavenly Father allows me to "appropriate" his culture...in fact he insists on it. Paul's abrogation aside.
 
Rachel Redux

Rachel Redux

Active member
American Gothic said:
I don't know if you are trying to be kosher or not, and it wouldn't be my business unless you shared that
and if you were, and I was around you, I would respect and defer to that for your good
what one Jesus believer does on this issue is their prerogative
if someone observes Sabbath in some way that's cool
Trying to Keep it Lawfully is a different matter entirely
if you wanted to be Religiously Judaistic
and accepted as part of Israel, you would convert

I also personally have nothing against cultural appropriation.
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Thinking about this some more...
As far as being truly kosher, I think you'd pretty much have to be part of an Orthodox family and live in an Orthodox community, in order to keep it properly.
Even trying to observe the non-Orthodox Sabbath in my family is super hard. Every get-together in our family is scheduled for Saturday, so I either have to compromise on being Biblically observant or I have to turn most of the gatherings. But I've been doing this for many years now and don't see my thoughts on the subject changing.
 
A

American Gothic

Well-known member
I'd only want to be under Mosaic law if I wanted what was offered to me under that covenant
and in that sort of relationship with God.

So, what is offered under that covenant?
 
Jewjitzu

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
American Gothic said:
there's all kinds of Jews as well - they can't all be correct
there are beliefs that should put someone out of the status of Christian believer

People are People so why should it be that we all get along so suckaly...
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When a Jew becomes a Christian he has apostasized. There's no way around this.
 
Harel13

Harel13

Active member
M

Mike McK

Well-known member
Open Heart said:
Clearly, Jesus taught the Jews to obey the Torah.
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Correct. The Jews Jesus was speaking to were still under the law. The New Covenant did not begin with Jesus' Earthly ministry, but with His death.
Open Heart said:
The Christian church, OTOH, is ambivilent about the Law.
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Untrue.
Open Heart said:
This largely has to do with Pauline teaching that circumcision is worthless,
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Untrue. Paul never taught that circumcision was "worthless", only that it was the sign of the Old Covenant, not the new.
Open Heart said:
that it is up to the individual whether they keep the Shabbat
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Untrue. Paul taught that Christians are under a new covenant, in which Christ is our Sabbath, not a day of the week, but that we should not judge those who continue to meet on Saturdays in observance of tradition.
Open Heart said:
or eat meat offered to idols, and that the law brings a curse. Yet for all their anti-nomianian teachings,
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Untrue. Paul was not antinomian. He did not teach against the law, but that the law cannot save and only illustrates our sinfulness and need for a savior.
Open Heart said:
oMy problem is that Christians pick and choose what parts of the Law they want to obey and what parts they ignore, and they often don't even agree with each other on this matter.
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Well, given that your statements above indicate that you don't have the first clue what Christians believe or what the Bible teaches, I'd say you have far bigger problems than just that.
Open Heart said:
For example, most Christians would say that they are to keep the 10 commandments, but they don't rest on the seventh day.
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Correct. Of the Ten Commandments, that's the only one that's not repeated in the New Testament, because our Sabbath is no longer a day of the week, but Christ.
Open Heart said:
But Christians have chosen to keep the Torah as part of their canon of scripture. So why, then, do they (most of them) not do things like keep the seventh day a day of rest?
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I'll give you a hint: Can you figure out what the root word of "Christian" is?
Open Heart said:
The answer I hear most often is that some laws are moral, and other laws are "ceremonial." Now, clearly, giving a sacrifice at the temple would be "ceremonial." But how do you get the idea that keeping the shabbat is ceremonial? Or the kosher laws, as another example?
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Correct. The Bible describes laws as being in several categories, two of which are ceremonial and moral. Some are ceremonial, some are moral, and some overlap between the two.

Those laws that are moral are axiomatic for all people. Those that are ceremonial are specifically for Israel, to signify that Israel is a Messianic nation.

We are still under moral laws. But, because we are not the Nation of Israel, so we are not under ceremonial laws. Simple as that.
Open Heart said:
It is clear to me that Christians pick and choose what is convenient to observe.
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Your ignorance is duly noted.
Open Heart said:
Far from observing every jot and tittle, they only keep those laws they feel like.
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Apparently, you don't feel like following those laws prohibiting edit per mod
 
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A

American Gothic

Well-known member
Harel13 said:
How so?
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"If you ask Orthodox Jews, they will say "no, except in life and death situations". Reform and Conservative will give other answers."

The only way Gentiles would have any consistency about the Law would be if Jews did, and then taught it to Us.
 
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A

American Gothic

Well-known member
Jewjitzu said:
Ok, well that's included in the Torah.

Sounds like you should join;)
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the Possibility of Life is included, but it's not a given

in the New covenant (whatever that might be) Death isn't even a possible outcome
another reason the New covenant is different from the one made at Sinai (Jeremiah 31)
 
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Harel13

Harel13

Active member
American Gothic said:
"If you ask Orthodox Jews, they will say "no, except in life and death situations". Reform and Conservative will give other answers."

The only way Gentiles would have any consistency about the Law would be if Jews did, and then taught it to Us.
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You know, two hundred years ago there were three kinds of Jews in the world: Traditional, Karaites and apostates. The Karaites at the time were already a small minority, albeit numbering more than they do today. Apostates were quite rare. The vast majority were the traditional Jews, who today are called Orthodox. And yet, somehow, most of the world was still non-Jewish. So I'm afraid your last paragraph makes little sense to me.
 
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