Church of the Devil described by Mormons

David, like all for us was a sinner, and commented deep sin’s we all know about…and God forgave those sins.

Joseph, like Warren Jeffs, are men who think they are Gods…and boast of it and teach others they can become a God…apples and oranges DB

Also, you know as well as I do “eternal life” in a LDS construct, for a man, men that they become a God. So here is another attempt where you are justifying your God complex…and throwing King David in the mix, comparing him to the likes of Joseph Smith and by default Warren Jeffs and other men that followed Josephs words and examples of believing the are and can become a God.

Your MO is so obvious, and for Bonnie, I hope she sees how most all your posts, have a means to the end, in justifying your God delusion.

In case anyone reads this, and does not understand LDS terms:

“Everlasting Life” (immortality) = all people, not matter what they might have done will receive the resurrection of life…Hitler and Stalin receive this and have no choice, it is forced on all.

”Eternal Life” = For the worthy man, means becoming a God And having “ALL” the Power, Glory, Dominion, and Knowledge of HF and Jesus, and the ability to make worlds for their very own spirit children to live on.

So reading post like DB wrote above, one has to read in a LDS context.
I believe it reads, "all Power, Gory, dominion and knowledge of HF and Jesus, being one. Sharing in his Glory but not having his glory.
You love to add the word "the" so again if i'm wrong, please correct me... thx
 
I believe it reads, "all Power, Gory, dominion and knowledge of HF and Jesus, being one. Sharing in his Glory but not having his glory.
You love to add the word "the" so again if i'm wrong, please correct me... thx

Okay fair enough, but this is what the church teaches it means, as a blessing of exaltation. I’ll remove the word “the”..it does not change the context, especially when you add that “you will be like him, and do everything he did” to the context, again as taught by the church. See below full context

They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge (see D&C 132:19–20).

Full context here:



“They will receive everything our Father in Heaven has and will become like Him. They will even be able to have spirit children and make new worlds for them to live on, and do all the things our Father in Heaven has done. People who are not married in the temple may live in other parts of the celestial kingdom, but they will not be exalted.”


So you believe differently as it is taught? Or were you mistaken?
 
Okay fair enough, but this is what the church teaches it means, as a blessing of exaltation. I’ll remove the word “the”..it does not change the context, especially when you add that “you will be like him, and do everything he did” to the context, again as taught by the church. See below full context

They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge (see D&C 132:19–20).

And as I mentioned before it is shared Glory, but not Gods own Glory... and what is your definition of Glory...

One of the more obscure evidences establishing this belief is the Hebrew word kabod, a noun translated as “glory” in the Old Testament. The kabod is an ancient belief, which stresses that God’s physical form is surrounded by a brilliant robe of light and (at sundry times) a veil of cloud or smoke, and is thought to be a “visible manifestation” of the physical presence of God.

1R. Laird Harris, Gleason J. Archer, Jr., Bruce Kaltke, eds., Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (Chicago: Moody Press, 1980, 2 Vols.) Vol. 1, “kabod II, Glory,” 943e, 427. See also Gerhard Kittel and Gerhand Friedrich, eds.,Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans Publishing, 1985), 178-181, for more meanings of “kabod” and its greek equivalent “doxa.”


Full context here:



“They will receive everything our Father in Heaven has and will become like Him. They will even be able to have spirit children and make new worlds for them to live on, and do all the things our Father in Heaven has done. People who are not married in the temple may live in other parts of the celestial kingdom, but they will not be exalted.”


So you believe differently as it is taught? Or were you mistaken?
What little I do know is similar to the above, but the details are few and between...
 
And as I mentioned before it is shared Glory, but not Gods own Glory... and what is your definition of Glory...

One of the more obscure evidences establishing this belief is the Hebrew word kabod, a noun translated as “glory” in the Old Testament. The kabod is an ancient belief, which stresses that God’s physical form is surrounded by a brilliant robe of light and (at sundry times) a veil of cloud or smoke, and is thought to be a “visible manifestation” of the physical presence of God.

1R. Laird Harris, Gleason J. Archer, Jr., Bruce Kaltke, eds., Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (Chicago: Moody Press, 1980, 2 Vols.) Vol. 1, “kabod II, Glory,” 943e, 427. See also Gerhard Kittel and Gerhand Friedrich, eds.,Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans Publishing, 1985), 178-181, for more meanings of “kabod” and its greek equivalent “doxa.”



What little I do know is similar to the above, but the details are few and between...
Ralf you just when to FAIR and paste a bit of an article, with no author. And an article that has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

You completely avoided the evidence/s I gave you from LDS teaching manuals. The teachings are clear that the LDS teaches that you can be just like HF and do everything thing he did and does. You are also avoiding the obvious that LDS prophets have taught that there are countless Gods, and that your HF had a HF also...which begs each God will have their own Glory. You are also avoiding the key word of "Dominion"...each God will have their own dominion. You will have your own worlds that you make. And you own spirit children.

There is far more written on this that you want to deal with. Just pasting random snippets from FAIR, does not help you understand LDS theology...go to the sources. It funny and ironic that you speak down to Bushman and LA and others, for being progressive and leaning on scholarship...and then here, and most always, you ignore and run away for clear teachings from the GA and paste random articles from a website that claims no official association with the church, and again paste info that does not even have an author's name on it. I hope you can see the irony in that Ralf.

Why are you running from what the correlation, and by default the GA write and publish officially?
 
Ralf you just when to FAIR and paste a bit of an article, with no author. And an article that has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
Chuckle, I have not done anything more than using the correct source... period. Are you claiming FAIR was the author... hmm


You completely avoided the evidence/s I gave you from LDS teaching manuals. The teachings are clear that the LDS teaches that you can be just like HF and do everything thing he did and does. You are also avoiding the obvious that LDS prophets have taught that there are countless Gods, and that your HF had a HF also...which begs each God will have their own Glory. You are also avoiding the key word of "Dominion"...each God will have their own dominion. You will have your own worlds that you make. And you own spirit children.

You have not explained what Glory means, zero, nada response... and yes, as I stated I do agree with the above as far as I know, but little is that I know about the details. It all sounds wonderful and if new members or even older members are disturbed, well I can't be their teacher in the sense of convincing them that this is indeed a blessing and not some wacko doctrine... so I not embarrassed if that is your concern.


There is far more written on this that you want to deal with. Just pasting random snippets from FAIR, does not help you understand LDS theology...go to the sources. It funny and ironic that you speak down to Bushman and LA and others, for being progressive and leaning on scholarship...and then here, and most always, you ignore and run away for clear teachings from the GA and paste random articles from a website that claims no official association with the church, and again paste info that does not even have an author's name on it. I hope you can see the irony in that Ralf.

Chuckle, when you find a Mormon Source that give even more details then what we have already been told, send me the source so I can examine it more... thx. And yes I see the cynicism of your own doubts and frustrations that you are loosing the battle...

Why are you running from what the correlation, and by default the GA write and publish officially?
I'm not, but what else is their to debate on becoming a god.... I like it and you seem to think I should be horrified and appalled and that every member should wake up and when they find out and then they should automatically leave the church...
 
“They will receive everything our Father in Heaven has and will become like Him.

Markk--what is your evidence that isn't true?

You still haven't answered as to what your evidence is according to the difference you might find here:

Ephesians 3:19---King James Version

19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
 
You are also avoiding the obvious that LDS prophets have taught that there are countless Gods,

Markk--you still haven't explained for us how many gods there are here:

Psalm 82:1---English Standard Version
1 God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:

John 10:34-35---English Standard Version
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—

and that your HF had a HF also...

So--did the God of Israel really have a God and Father?

1 Peter 1:3---King James Version (KJV)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

John 20:17---King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Ephesians 1:17---King James Version (KJV)

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Hebrews 1:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

You will have your own worlds that you make. And you own spirit children.

We have our own children here--which is the work of God, and not mankind. That isn't "will have"--it's the here and now. Why would His pattern change in the eternities?

So--is the pattern of male and female--marriage--and having children--the creation of God--or man?

The fact is--that was the very way of God--He is the author of that pattern.

So--when did God change?

Revelation 2:26-27---King James Version
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
 
Markk--what is your evidence that isn't true?

You still haven't answered as to what your evidence is according to the difference you might find here:

Ephesians 3:19---King James Version
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Common sense for one. reading and studying LDS history and understanding how JS and BY duped the folks for sexual exploitation of women and promised of Godhood. A lifetime of seeing LDS men like yourself trying to convince themselves they can become God's. And off coarse reading and studying in context the Bible, actually reading it, not just pasting color coded verses.

What do you think that verse means and please show me a GA teaching on it, I promise I will read it and opine. here pick one...

 
David, like all for us was a sinner, and commented deep sin’s we all know about…and God forgave those sins.

Joseph, like Warren Jeffs, are men who think they are Gods…and boast of it and teach others they can become a God…apples and oranges DB

Also, you know as well as I do “eternal life” in a LDS construct, for a man, men that they become a God. So here is another attempt where you are justifying your God complex…and throwing King David in the mix, comparing him to the likes of Joseph Smith and by default Warren Jeffs and other men that followed Josephs words and examples of believing the are and can become a God.

Your MO is so obvious, and for Bonnie, I hope she sees how most all your posts, have a means to the end, in justifying your God delusion.

In case anyone reads this, and does not understand LDS terms:

“Everlasting Life” (immortality) = all people, not matter what they might have done will receive the resurrection of life…Hitler and Stalin receive this and have no choice, it is forced on all.

”Eternal Life” = For the worthy man, means becoming a God And having “ALL” the Power, Glory, Dominion, and Knowledge of HF and Jesus, and the ability to make worlds for their very own spirit children to live on.

So reading post like DB wrote above, one has to read in a LDS context.
Thanks, Markk. I don't recall David or any other OT person marrying other men's wives, while they were still married to their first husbands. David had to murder one husband in order to marry his wife, but that is certainly different.

No Mormon has ever told me where D and C 132 says it is fine for a man to marry other men's wives, while they were still married to their first husbands. A Mormon on here once told me these marriages were all for "eternity" but that isn't true. I found at least two that married Joseph "for time and eternity" on wivesofjosephsmith.org. The women wrote in their journals about being sealed to Joseph for "TIME and eternity."

You have lots of Mormon writings at your disposal in your library, Markk. Maybe you know of other men's wives who married Joseph for "time and eternity."
 
Thanks, Markk. I don't recall David or any other OT person marrying other men's wives, while they were still married to their first husbands. David had to murder one husband in order to marry his wife, but that is certainly different.

No Mormon has ever told me where D and C 132 says it is fine for a man to marry other men's wives, while they were still married to their first husbands. A Mormon on here once told me these marriages were all for "eternity" but that isn't true. I found at least two that married Joseph "for time and eternity" on wivesofjosephsmith.org. The women wrote in their journals about being sealed to Joseph for "TIME and eternity."

You have lots of Mormon writings at your disposal in your library, Markk. Maybe you know of other men's wives who married Joseph for "time and eternity."
Yep, this is a big issue that has caused the Church to lose many members for reasons that only the person leaving can or could explain.
I am not one of those who find this issue which has very limited details a problem and like many issues have placed this on on my wait to find out shelf... I don't believe that the anti's are actually any more knowledgable about the details than we are... I have not seen any materials on where JS had sexual relations in any of his polyandrous marriages.
 
Yep, this is a big issue that has caused the Church to lose many members for reasons that only the person leaving can or could explain.
I am not one of those who find this issue which has very limited details a problem and like many issues have placed this on on my wait to find out shelf... I don't believe that the anti's are actually any more knowledgable about the details than we are... I have not seen any materials on where JS had sexual relations in any of his polyandrous marriages.
Ralf, on the old board you used to deny JS had sex with any of his wives, never say never. Your evidence was that he had no children, an argument of silence..but the GA admitting it change that.

Ralf…for Zina Huntington was a married wife of JS, sealed to him for eternity. Joseph sent Henry, here husband away on several missions…and She and Henry even had a child after she married Jospeh.

She wrote in her journal…”When I heard that God had revealed the law of celestial marriag that we would have the privilige of associating in family relationships in the worlds to come I searched the scripture & buy [by] humble prayer to my Heavenly Father I obtained a testimony for myself that God had required that order to be established in this church. I mad[e] a greater sacrifise than to give my life for I never anticipated a gain [again] to be looked uppon as an honerable woman by those I dearly loved [but] could I compremise concience lay aside the sure testimony of the spiret of God for the Glory of this world after having been baptized by one having authority and covenanting to be obedient at the waters edge to live the life of a saint[?] …

Ralf I am not sure what kind of evidence one would expect, especially for a polyandrous affair…which would allow the husband to legally seek restitution by means of violence in those days.

Most every plural marriage in Nauvoo, and Utah, afterward encluded sex Ralf…I am living proof of it in that by GGGF’s, who was JS body guard…his second wife produced my maternal line of genealogy. Abraham, Issac and Jacob did…warren Jeff’s did, I have cousins that do (manti), but Joseph somehow refrained…I mean come on Ralf…

Again, never say never.
 
Ralf, on the old board you used to deny JS had sex with any of his wives, never say never. Your evidence was that he had no children, an argument of silence..but the GA admitting it change that.
There is no proof he has sex with any of his wives and none of the GA's can change that. There is evidence. There are affidavits but there is no proof.

Now, what does any oth that have to do with anything that's a current.
 
Thanks, Markk. I don't recall David or any other OT person marrying other men's wives, while they were still married to their first husbands. David had to murder one husband in order to marry his wife, but that is certainly different.

Of course it's different. That's the point--the critics here won't hesitate to say David is in the kingdom of God, when he had a man killed, and then took his wife, and yet--Joseph Smith is damned because he married another man's wife while her husband was living.

That's an obvious hypocrisy.
 
dberrie2020 said: Markk--what is your evidence that isn't true?

You still haven't answered as to what your evidence is according to the difference you might find here:

Ephesians 3:19---King James Version
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

Common sense for one. reading and studying LDS history and understanding how JS and BY duped the folks....

How are you claiming your opinion of Joseph Smith, or "LDS history"--has anything to do with the testimony of the Biblical scriptures?

Ephesians 3:19---King James Version
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

While you are at it--could you please explain for us--what are those who sit upon the throne of God?

Revelation 3:21---King James Version
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


You never responded here either:

Markk--you still haven't explained for us how many gods there are here:

Psalm 82:1---English Standard Version
1 God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:

John 10:34-35---English Standard Version
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—

Please apply your "common sense" there--and give us an answer.
 
Markk said:
You are also avoiding the obvious that LDS prophets have taught that there are countless Gods,

Markk--you still haven't explained for us how many gods there are here:

Psalm 82:1---English Standard Version
1 God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:

John 10:34-35---English Standard Version
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—

Markk said:
and that your HF had a HF also...

So--did the God of Israel really have a God and Father?

1 Peter 1:3---King James Version (KJV)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

John 20:17---King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Ephesians 1:17---King James Version (KJV)

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Hebrews 1:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Markk said:
You will have your own worlds that you make. And you own spirit children.

We have our own children here--which is the work of God, and not mankind. That isn't "will have"--it's the here and now. Why would His pattern change in the eternities?

So--is the pattern of male and female--marriage--and having children--the creation of God--or man?

The fact is--that was the very way of God--He is the author of that pattern.

So--when did God change?

Revelation 2:26-27---King James Version
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Bump for Markk
 
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