Circular Reasoning

The gospel message is about Christ, and no one else

Acts 10:36
You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.

Acts 10:42-43
He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
 
ramcam2 said:
The unity of Christ and the Church, head and members of one Body, also implies the distinction of the two within a personal relationship. This aspect is often expressed by the image of bridegroom and bride. The theme of Christ as Bridegroom of the Church was prepared for by the prophets and announced by John the Baptist. The Lord referred to himself as the “bridegroom.” The Apostle speaks of the whole Church and of each of the faithful, members of his Body, as a bride “betrothed” to Christ the Lord so as to become but one spirit with him. The Church is the spotless bride of the spotless Lamb. “Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her.” He has joined her with himself in an everlasting covenant and never stops caring for her as for his own body:

This is the whole Christ, head and body, one formed from many . . . whether the head or members speak, it is Christ who speaks. He speaks in his role as the head (ex persona capitis) and in his role as body (ex persona corporis). What does this mean? “The two will become one flesh. This is a great mystery, and I am applying it to Christ and the Church.” And the Lord himself says in the Gospel: “So they are no longer two, but one flesh.” They are, in fact, two different persons, yet they are one in the conjugal union, . . . as head, he calls himself the bridegroom, as body, he calls himself “bride” (CCC 796).
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and look who it is you quote - man, not God
 
A new day said:
The Rc church has morphed into something entirely different than what it was when it originally began. When the apostles were alive, they had noted that during their lifetime that false teachings were well and alive, which is why they warned about them. All this is spoken of in Scripture. False doctrine, no matter who it comes from always takes the total focus off of Christ and directs the focus elsewhere, which is why Scripture says, we can recognize false teachers and false teachings by the fruit that each produces.

The teachings we hear from Rc's, are never about Christ, unless its lip service in an attempt to make a doctrine sound truthful. We are always redirected to the Rc magisterium, mary, or saint worship. God is our creator, and Scripture is HIM speaking to us. All humanity gets its morality from God. HE is the one who set the bar on what is right and what is wrong. HE is also the one who inspired the writers of the bible in both the OT and NT to write as they did. God intended for His written word to be understood by all.
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Unless you do not believe in Jesus' promised that the guidance of the holy spirit (John14:16, 17; John 16: 13); the gates of hell will not prevail (Matt16 :18); and he will be with her till the end of time (Matt 28: 18-20)

and in 1Tim3: 15, that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth.

A new day said:
Scripture has NOT changed, it remains the same today as it did when the writers penned them. You know that if you believe what we non-rc's have been saying, that a change is required of you. It isn't us, non-rc's that require the change, but the HS. The Rcc does not require change, which is why many still cling to religion, instead of following what Scripture says about the gospel. The true gospel message speaks of change.

The gospel is not hard to understand and neither is the rest of Scripture. Sit down and read it, without reading anything else, just Scripture, all by itself. You will find that, it isn't as difficult as the Rc magisterium has painted it out to be.
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The bible says the opposite and warns about misguided interpretations. Peter wrote, “There are some things in them [Paul’s letters] hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures” (2 Pet. 3:16)

The bible does not interpret itself, it is difficult to understand (Acts 8:30-31). Christians don’t agree about which passages are clear and which are obscure. An infallible authority is required
 
mica said:
and look who it is you quote - man, not God
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sorry, here again with the footnote/verses...

The Church is the Bride of Christ

796 The unity of Christ and the Church, head and members of one Body, also implies the distinction of the two within a personal relationship. This aspect is often expressed by the image of bridegroom and bride. the theme of Christ as Bridegroom of the Church was prepared for by the prophets and announced by John the Baptist.234 The Lord referred to himself as the "bridegroom."235 The Apostle speaks of the whole Church and of each of the faithful, members of his Body, as a bride "betrothed" to Christ the Lord so as to become but one spirit with him.236 The Church is the spotless bride of the spotless Lamb.237 "Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her."238 He has joined her with himself in an everlasting covenant and never stops caring for her as for his own body:239

This is the whole Christ, head and body, one formed from many . . . whether the head or members speak, it is Christ who speaks. He speaks in his role as the head (ex persona capitis) and in his role as body (ex persona corporis). What does this mean? "The two will become one flesh. This is a great mystery, and I am applying it to Christ and the Church."240 and the Lord himself says in the Gospel: "So they are no longer two, but one flesh."241 They are, in fact, two different persons, yet they are one in the conjugal union, . . . as head, he calls himself the bridegroom, as body, he calls himself "bride."242

234 Jn 3:29.
235 Mk 2:19.
236 Cf. Mt 22:1-14; 25:1-13; 1 Cor 6:15-17; 2 Cor 11:2.
237 Cf. Rev 22:17; Eph 1:4. 5:27.
238 Eph 5:25-26.
239 Cf. Eph 5:29.
240 Eph 5:31-32.
241 Mt 19:6
242 St. Augustine, En. in Ps. 74:4: PL 36, 948-949.
 
A new day said:
The gospel message is about Christ, and no one else

Acts 10:36
You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.

Acts 10:42-43
He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
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Matt16: 18 And I tell thee this in my turn, that thou art Peter, and it is upon this rock that I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it; 19 and I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Eph5: 15 See then, brethren, how carefully you have to tread, not as fools, 16 but as wise men do, hoarding the opportunity that is given you, in evil times like these. 17 No, you cannot afford to be reckless; you must grasp what the Lord’s will is for you. 18 Do not besot yourselves with wine; that leads to ruin. Let your contentment be in the Holy Spirit; 19 your tongues unloosed in psalms and hymns and spiritual music, as you sing and give praise to the Lord in your hearts. 20 Give thanks continually to God, who is our Father, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; 21 and, as you stand in awe of Christ, submit to each other’s rights. 22 Wives must obey their husbands as they would obey the Lord. 23 The man is the head to which the woman’s body is united, just as Christ is the head of the Church, he, the Saviour on whom the safety of his body depends; 24 and women must owe obedience at all points to their husbands, as the Church does to Christ. 25 You who are husbands must shew love to your wives, as Christ shewed love to the Church when he gave himself up on its behalf. 26 He would hallow it, purify it by bathing it in the water to which his word gave life; 27 he would summon it into his own presence, the Church in all its beauty, no stain, no wrinkle, no such disfigurement; it was to be holy, it was to be spotless. 28 And that is how husband ought to love wife, as if she were his own body; in loving his wife, a man is but loving himself. 29 It is unheard of, that a man should bear ill-will to his own flesh and blood; no, he keeps it fed and warmed; and so it is with Christ and his Church; 30 we are limbs of his body; flesh and bone, we belong to him.[4] 31 That is why a man will leave his father and mother and will cling to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. 32 Yes, those words are a high mystery, and I am applying them here to Christ and his Church.
 
balshan said:
Your institution is not united with Jesus at all. That is a false claim. It ignores Jesus and prefers Mary and the pope. It ignores the word of God, preferring the word of fallible men who do not know the word.
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thanks for your ad hominems.

peace be with you
 
balshan said:
Just examples of why your institution is not His church or bride. The real church is the Jesus' church, they come from all denominations and they follow Jesus every day and not man made institutions. The fact you ask what the name is proves it is not your institution.
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where is that in the bible?
 
balshan said:
Yes but Jesus never says that the RCC is it and it is not his bride. Again showing a lack of scriptural knowledge. The bride is spotless and that can never be said about your institution. It is stained by bad fruit that has gone rotten.

Your institution is one big fairy tale with no happy ending.
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i can take your seriously if you can give us the name of the one true church.
 
ramcam2 said:
Unless you do not believe in Jesus' promised that the guidance of the holy spirit (John14:16, 17; John 16: 13); the gates of hell will not prevail (Matt16 :18); and he will be with her till the end of time (Matt 28: 18-20)
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Protestants believe that the Spirit guides the church. But we do not limit the church to only include some kind of self-appointed "elite". The Spirit guides every believer into the truth.
ramcam2 said:
and in 1Tim3: 15, that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth.
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This, again, refers to the duty of all Christians to rightly administer the truths that have been entrusted to the children of God. The church in toto is the pillar and foundation of truth.
ramcam2 said:
The bible says the opposite and warns about misguided interpretations. Peter wrote, “There are some things in them [Paul’s letters] hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures” (2 Pet. 3:16)
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It does not necessarily follow that Peter was thinking of Paul's treatment of the gospel. But considering the fact that Catholics are so uncomfortable with Paul's rejection of works as a basis for salvation, he apparently is difficult to understand if you don't want to understand.
ramcam2 said:
The bible does not interpret itself, it is difficult to understand (Acts 8:30-31). Christians don’t agree about which passages are clear and which are obscure. An infallible authority is required
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The eunuch did not know what to make of the identity of the suffering servant (he was reading Isaiah 53). Those who believe understand Whom it refers to. There is nothing unclear about "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16).
 
ramcam2 said:
Matt16: 18 And I tell thee this in my turn, that thou art Peter, and it is upon this rock that I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it; 19 and I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Eph5: 15 See then, brethren, how carefully you have to tread, not as fools, 16 but as wise men do, hoarding the opportunity that is given you, in evil times like these. 17 No, you cannot afford to be reckless; you must grasp what the Lord’s will is for you. 18 Do not besot yourselves with wine; that leads to ruin. Let your contentment be in the Holy Spirit; 19 your tongues unloosed in psalms and hymns and spiritual music, as you sing and give praise to the Lord in your hearts. 20 Give thanks continually to God, who is our Father, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; 21 and, as you stand in awe of Christ, submit to each other’s rights. 22 Wives must obey their husbands as they would obey the Lord. 23 The man is the head to which the woman’s body is united, just as Christ is the head of the Church, he, the Saviour on whom the safety of his body depends; 24 and women must owe obedience at all points to their husbands, as the Church does to Christ. 25 You who are husbands must shew love to your wives, as Christ shewed love to the Church when he gave himself up on its behalf. 26 He would hallow it, purify it by bathing it in the water to which his word gave life; 27 he would summon it into his own presence, the Church in all its beauty, no stain, no wrinkle, no such disfigurement; it was to be holy, it was to be spotless. 28 And that is how husband ought to love wife, as if she were his own body; in loving his wife, a man is but loving himself. 29 It is unheard of, that a man should bear ill-will to his own flesh and blood; no, he keeps it fed and warmed; and so it is with Christ and his Church; 30 we are limbs of his body; flesh and bone, we belong to him.[4] 31 That is why a man will leave his father and mother and will cling to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. 32 Yes, those words are a high mystery, and I am applying them here to Christ and his Church.
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What is your point in posting the above? What are you trying to say here.
 
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