Circumcision

RayneBeau

Well-known member
We all need to have circumcision of the heart.
Yes, indeed, an inner spiritual circumcision which is accomplished in the heart by the Holy Spirit, but It is distinct from and independent of water baptism. The Word of God certainly speaks about it, and yet, spiritual circumcision was never once taught to the vast millions of students who were being indoctrinated by Roman Catholic nuns in parochial schools.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
If by baptism you mean water baptism, then it's related to circumcision as an outward covenantal sign for the visible Israel/Church. Baptism by the Holy Spirit is the circumcision of the heart for God's elect, the invisible Israel/Church.

God always keeps a remnant.

Yes, the concept of Spirit baptism that is distinct from and independent of water baptism can be plainly seen in the analogy of circumcision.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
How does circumcision relate to baptism?
What do you mean by the question? There are lots of ways it can be answered depending on what precisely is being asked, e.g.
1) Both are the ordinary means of entering the covenant people of God.
2) Both, therefore, are the ordinary means of salvation.
3) Both are gifts from God as signs of the covenant.
4) Both are generally applied to infants through the faith of the families.
 

Septextura

Well-known member
What are the reasons why circumcision was ever given?

To physically separate the ethnic nation of Israel from others as a covenant in the flesh.

Genesis 17:13
He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

All heathen religions worshipped the male phallus. Practice such as circumcision would be considered despicable mutilation and against the favor of the gods.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
We all need to have circumcision of the heart.
We all need to have circumcision of the heart.
I agree. Paul does point out however, that it is possible to be physically circumcised, yet not spiritually circumcised, and therefore not truly a child of God. Just like Roman Catholics falsely believe that being baptized means a person then becomes a child of God, which is not true. True circumcision is a thing of the heart, and the outward physical rite is to signify a spiritual reality in the heart.
 

Nondenom40

Well-known member
What do you mean by the question? There are lots of ways it can be answered depending on what precisely is being asked, e.g.
1) Both are the ordinary means of entering the covenant people of God.
2) Both, therefore, are the ordinary means of salvation.
3) Both are gifts from God as signs of the covenant.
4) Both are generally applied to infants through the faith of the families.
2) Both, therefore, are the ordinary means of salvation.
And yet Paul says that not all Israel is spiritual Israel.

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Circumcision is meaningless without faith. Read Heb 11
And water baptism is meaningless without faith. We are water baptized because we are saved, not to be saved.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
And yet Paul says that not all Israel is spiritual Israel.

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Circumcision is meaningless without faith. Read Heb 11
And water baptism is meaningless without faith. We are water baptized because we are saved, not to be saved.
I agree.

Water baptism and faith go together to be efficacious. That's why, for instance, the Church won't baptise people who don't profess their faith (or, on behalf of their children).
 

mica

Well-known member
I agree.

Water baptism and faith go together to be efficacious. That's why, for instance, the Church won't baptise people who don't profess their faith (or, on behalf of their children).
they can speak any written or memorized words the RCC tells them to, if they aren't born again they won't be saved by being water baptized.
 

Septextura

Well-known member
Water baptism (adults or infants) is probably the only valid sacrament you can get from Rome. They introduced transubstantiation after the 12th century and paganized the other God given sacrament, so they are weighted on the scales and found wanting. Their apostasy and deviance will only increase.
 

Nondenom40

Well-known member
I agree.

Water baptism and faith go together to be efficacious. That's why, for instance, the Church won't baptise people who don't profess their faith (or, on behalf of their children).
Infants can't profess faith yet they are still baptized. And i would say most people professing are placing their faith in rome, not Jesus.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
We all need to have circumcision of the heart.
In the Old Testament it speaks about the circumcision of the heart, so that goes right along with uncircumcised lips are impure lips, and an uncircumcised heart is an unclean heart.
To physically separate the ethnic nation of Israel from others as a covenant in the flesh.

Genesis 17:13


All heathen religions worshipped the male phallus. Practice such as circumcision would be considered despicable mutilation and against the favor of the gods.
Does circumcision also have something to do with 'justification'?
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Justification is a declaration by God that a person is righteous, as in not guilty before the courts of Heaven.

1 Corinthians 7:19
So then in the case of Abraham, would it be correct to say that circumcision did not play any part in Abraham being justified, but rather that his justification was the basis upon which his circumcision was given?
 

Septextura

Well-known member
So then in the case of Abraham, would it be correct to say that circumcision did not play any part in Abraham being justified, but rather that his justification was the basis upon which his circumcision was given?

Abraham was declared righteous for his faith in Genesis 15. The covenant and circumcision was given in Genesis 17.
 
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