Circumstances are designed to produce faith

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TomFL

Guest
I’m discussing the problem with evil . Evil is the byproduct of sin . God did not create sin and everything He created was said to be good in Genesis .

hope this helps !!!
But you did so in a post which expounds on the potter Clay analogy
 
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TomFL

Guest
I’m discussing the problem with evil . Evil is the byproduct of sin . God did not create sin and everything He created was said to be good in Genesis .

hope this helps !!!
But you did so in a post which expounds on the potter Clay analogy and it does not appear to be directly related

Sure. See Acts 4: 27 and 28
That passage is not speaking of the burning of children in a fire

nor does it assert God put the desire to kill Jesus in their heart
 

civic

Well-known member
But you did so in a post which expounds on the potter Clay analogy and it does not appear to be directly related


That passage is not speaking of the burning of children in a fire

nor does it assert God put the desire to kill Jesus in their heart
Who says God made us robots ?
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
But you did so in a post which expounds on the potter Clay analogy and it does not appear to be directly related


That passage is not speaking of the burning of children in a fire

nor does it assert God put the desire to kill Jesus in their heart
So what. No one says He put the desire in their heart.

It does say God plans and determines sinful actions of man.
 
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TomFL

Guest
Then you can’t lump everyone the same . I don’t believed God created evil but allowed evil as a consequence of sin.
As
Then you can’t lump everyone the same . I don’t believed God created evil but allowed evil as a consequence of sin.
as I stated

Those who tout divine meticulous determination of all things

and over literalize the potter clay analogy

that happens to be many Calvinists
 

civic

Well-known member
Then he does not determine all things

The point

Hello
What does this mean below ?

Ephesians 1-having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things in accordance with the plan of His will,

Isaiah 46:10-11
I declare the end from the beginning, and ancient times from what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and all My good pleasure I will accomplish.’
I summon a bird of prey from the east, a man for My purpose from a far-off land. Truly I have spoken, and truly I will bring it to pass. I have planned it, and I will surely do it.
 
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TomFL

Guest
What does this mean below ?

Ephesians 1-having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things in accordance with the plan of His will,

Isaiah 46:10-11
I declare the end from the beginning, and ancient times from what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and all My good pleasure I will accomplish.’
I summon a bird of prey from the east, a man for My purpose from a far-off land. Truly I have spoken, and truly I will bring it to pass. I have planned it, and I will surely do it.
First you gave no verse reference or translation

so I have to assume you refer to

Ephesians 1:11 (KJV)
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

In context it has nothing at all to do with God determining every sinful lust, though or deed of man

It does have to do with God outworking his plan to bring about the final destiny of the faithful in Christ

next Isaiah does not declare God has determined every sinful lust, though or deed of man

that God does determine some things no one doubts

that he is capable and does at times exert his sovereignty also no one doubt

such verses however cannot be employed to declare God has determined all things

as I believe you yourself noted God is not the cause of all of man's sin

In any case the idea is clearly unbiblical as scripture4 attests

1 John 2:16 (KJV 1900)
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

1 Corinthians 10:13 (KJV 1900)
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

James 1:13 (KJV 1900)
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
 

civic

Well-known member
First you gave no verse reference or translation

so I have to assume you refer to

Ephesians 1:11 (KJV)
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

In context it has nothing at all to do with God determining every sinful lust, though or deed of man

It does have to do with God outworking his plan to bring about the final destiny of the faithful in Christ

next Isaiah does not declare God has determined every sinful lust, though or deed of man

that God does determine some things no one doubts

that he is capable and does at times exert his sovereignty also no one doubt

such verses however cannot be employed to declare God has determined all things

as I believe you yourself noted God is not the cause of all of man's sin

In any case the idea is clearly unbiblical as scripture4 attests

1 John 2:16 (KJV 1900)
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

1 Corinthians 10:13 (KJV 1900)
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

James 1:13 (KJV 1900)
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Were all of Paul’s beatings / tortures / imprisonments part of Gods plan and will ? What about the rest of the apostles deaths , tortures and punishments ? And what about Jesus ?

Hope this helps !!!
 
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TomFL

Guest
Were all of Paul’s beatings / tortures / imprisonments part of Gods plan and will ? What about the rest of the apostles deaths , tortures and punishments ? And what about Jesus ?

Hope this helps !!!
Jesus certainly and the others as well but what has that to do with my previous reply

Ephesians 1:11 (KJV)
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

In context it has nothing at all to do with God determining every sinful lust, though or deed of man

It does have to do with God outworking his plan to bring about the final destiny of the faithful in Christ

next Isaiah does not declare God has determined every sinful lust, though or deed of man

that God does determine some things no one doubts

that he is capable and does at times exert his sovereignty also no one doubt

such verses however cannot be employed to declare God has determined all things

as I believe you yourself noted God is not the cause of all of man's sin

In any case the idea is clearly unbiblical as scripture attests


1 John 2:16 (KJV 1900)
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

1 Corinthians 10:13 (KJV 1900)
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

James 1:13 (KJV 1900)
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
 
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TomFL

Guest
Which is no point at all. Lol God is limited to using the heart to bring about what He has determined to occur?
What part of all things escapes you

If God did not determine their desires but simply used their desires to accomplish the task God did not determine all things

Hello
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
What part of all things escapes you

If God did not determine their desires but simply used their desires to accomplish the task God did not determine all things

Hello
God does not have to determine your every evil intention. Some He actively does and some He simply allows. Your evil intentions come naturally.
 
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TomFL

Guest
God does not have to determine your every evil intention. Some He actively does and some He simply allows. Your evil intentions come naturally.
And that is what I have been stating in contradiction to many Calvinists who claim God determines all things

Permission and determination are not the same thing
 

praise_yeshua

Well-known member
God didn't create evil. How can you say that God intended Judah's act and not their sin when their act was sin?

EDIT insult

There is not example of an executioner not governor in this. You're adding that. Why you deal with the verse I reference? You're making the argument that sin makes Grace abound... That is not true. That is a false Gospel.

Okay.... Someone has been messing with my profile. I was banned for 3 days and now I'm showing as "Seth Proton" instead of "praise_yeshua".....
 

praise_yeshua

Well-known member
And what the brothers meant for evil , God meant for good. God makes good come from evil. The same goes with the cross and death of Jesus for our sins by evil men who put Him to death .

hope this helps !!!

Jesus laid down His life. No man took it from Him. The evil intent and action of men were overcome by the Goodness of God. They are not One and the Same.
 
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