Clement of Alexandria on John 1:1

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
Interestingly Clement of Alexandria saw J 1:1a as meaning that the Word became the Son of God. And he spoke Greek natively.


»Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο«, οὐ κατὰ τὴν παρουσίαν μόνον ἄνθρωπος γενόμενος, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἐν ἀρχῇ ὁ ἐν ταὐτότητι λόγος, κατὰ περιγραφὴν καὶ οὐ κατ᾿ οὐσίαν γενόμενος [ὁ] υἱός.

He interprets ην as γινομαι.

EXTRACTS FROM THE WORKS OF THEODOTUS AND THE SO-CALLED ORIENTAL TEACHING AT THE TIME OF VALENTINUS

19 "And the Logos became flesh" not only by becoming man at his Advent <on earth>, but also" at the beginning" the essential Logos became a son by circumscription and not in essence. And again he became flesh when he acted through the prophets. And the Saviour is called an offspring of the essential Logos; therefore, "in the beginning was the Logos and the Logos was with God" and "that which came into existence in him was life" and life is the Lord. And when Paul says, "Put on the new man created according to God" it is as if he said, Believe on him who was "created" by God, "according to God," that is, the Logos in God. And "created according to God" can refer to the end of advance which man will reach, as does. . . he rejected the end for which he was created. And in other passages he speaks still more plainly and distinctly: "Who is an image of the invisible God"; then he goes on, "First-Born of all creation." For he calls the Logos of the essential Logos "an image of the invisible God," but "First-Born of all creation." Having been begotten without passion he became the creator and progenitor of all creation and substance, for by him the Father made all things. Wherefore it is also said that he "received the form of a servant," which refers not only to his flesh at the advent, but also to his substance, which he derived from its underlying reality, for substance is a slave, inasmuch as it is passive and subordinate to the active and dominating, cause.

20 For we thus understand "I begot thee before the morning star" with reference to the first-created Logos of God and similarly "thy name is before sun" and moon and before all creation.
 

The Real John Milton

Well-known member
He interprets ην as γινομαι.

EXTRACTS FROM THE WORKS OF THEODOTUS AND THE SO-CALLED ORIENTAL TEACHING AT THE TIME OF VALENTINUS

19 "And the Logos became flesh" not only by becoming man at his Advent <on earth>, but also" at the beginning" the essential Logos became a son by circumscription and not in essence. And again he became flesh when he acted through the prophets. And the Saviour is called an offspring of the essential Logos; therefore, "in the beginning was the Logos and the Logos was with God" and "that which came into existence in him was life" and life is the Lord. And when Paul says, "Put on the new man created according to God" it is as if he said, Believe on him who was "created" by God, "according to God," that is, the Logos in God. And "created according to God" can refer to the end of advance which man will reach, as does. . . he rejected the end for which he was created. And in other passages he speaks still more plainly and distinctly: "Who is an image of the invisible God"; then he goes on, "First-Born of all creation." For he calls the Logos of the essential Logos "an image of the invisible God," but "First-Born of all creation." Having been begotten without passion he became the creator and progenitor of all creation and substance, for by him the Father made all things. Wherefore it is also said that he "received the form of a servant," which refers not only to his flesh at the advent, but also to his substance, which he derived from its underlying reality, for substance is a slave, inasmuch as it is passive and subordinate to the active and dominating, cause.

20 For we thus understand "I begot thee before the morning star" with reference to the first-created Logos of God and similarly "thy name is before sun" and moon and before all creation.

I interpret ην as γινομαι (specifically as ἐγένετο) also, at John 1:1. Not infrequently, ην and γινομαι are interchangeable and have the same meaning. For instance look at Matthew 7:27 and Luke 6:49 , which came to my remembrance --

καὶ κατέβη ἡ βροχὴ καὶ ἦλθον οἱ ποταμοὶ καὶ ἔπνευσαν οἱ ἄνεμοι καὶ προσέκοψαν τῇ οἰκίᾳ ἐκείνῃ, καὶ ἔπεσεν, καὶ ἦν ἡ πτῶσις αὐτῆς μεγάλη.

ὁ δὲ ἀκούσας καὶ μὴ ποιήσας ὅμοιός ἐστιν ἀνθρώπῳ οἰκοδομήσαντι οἰκίαν ἐπὶ τὴν γῆν χωρὶς θεμελίου, ᾗ προσέρηξεν ὁ ποταμός, καὶ εὐθὺς συνέπεσεν, καὶ ἐγένετο τὸ ῥῆγμα τῆς οἰκίας ἐκείνης μέγα.

-----
Now compare the following

John 1:1b καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν

and

Isaiah 38:4 καὶ ἐγένετο λόγος κυρίου πρὸς Ησαιαν
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
I interpret ην as γινομαι (specifically as ἐγένετο) also, at John 1:1. Not infrequently, ην and γινομαι are interchangeable and have the same meaning. For instance look at Matthew 7:27 and Luke 6:49 , which came to my remembrance --

καὶ κατέβη ἡ βροχὴ καὶ ἦλθον οἱ ποταμοὶ καὶ ἔπνευσαν οἱ ἄνεμοι καὶ προσέκοψαν τῇ οἰκίᾳ ἐκείνῃ, καὶ ἔπεσεν, καὶ ἦν ἡ πτῶσις αὐτῆς μεγάλη.

ὁ δὲ ἀκούσας καὶ μὴ ποιήσας ὅμοιός ἐστιν ἀνθρώπῳ οἰκοδομήσαντι οἰκίαν ἐπὶ τὴν γῆν χωρὶς θεμελίου, ᾗ προσέρηξεν ὁ ποταμός, καὶ εὐθὺς συνέπεσεν, καὶ ἐγένετο τὸ ῥῆγμα τῆς οἰκίας ἐκείνης μέγα.

-----
Now compare the following

John 1:1b καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν

and

Isaiah 38:4 καὶ ἐγένετο λόγος κυρίου πρὸς Ησαιαν
Matthew 7:27 and Luke 6:49 is good.
 

The Real John Milton

Well-known member
A few more:

(2) Genesis 15:1 μετὰ δὲ τὰ ῥήματα ταῦτα ἐγενήθη ῥῆμα κυρίου πρὸς Αβραμ ἐν ὁράματι λέγων μὴ φοβοῦ Αβραμ ἐγὼ ὑπερασπίζω σου ὁ μισθός σου πολὺς ἔσται σφόδρα

(3) Genesis 15:4 καὶ εὐθὺς φωνὴ κυρίου ἐγένετο πρὸς αὐτὸν λέγων οὐ κληρονομήσει σε οὗτος ἀλλ᾽ ὃς ἐξελεύσεται ἐκ σοῦ οὗτος κληρονομήσει σε

(4) 1 Ch. 17:3 καὶ ἐγένετο ἐν τῇ νυκτὶ ἐκείνῃ καὶ ἐγένετο λόγος κυρίου πρὸς Ναθαν λέγων

(5) 2 Ch. 11:2 καὶ ἐγένετο λόγος κυρίου πρὸς Σαμαιαν ἄνθρωπον τοῦ θεοῦ λέγων

(6) 2 Ch. 12:7 καὶ ἐν τῷ ἰδεῗν κύριον ὅτι ἐνετράπησαν καὶ ἐγένετο λόγος κυρίου πρὸς Σαμαιαν λέγων ἐνετράπησαν οὐ καταφθερῶ αὐτούς καὶ δώσω αὐτοὺς ὡς μικρὸν εἰς σωτηρίαν καὶ οὐ μὴ στάξῃ ὁ θυμός μου ἐν Ιερουσαλημ

Certainly in none of the above, which are parallel to John 1:1b, does πρὸς and accusative mean "in someone's house."
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
I interpret ην as γινομαι (specifically as ἐγένετο) also, at John 1:1. Not infrequently, ην and γινομαι are interchangeable and have the same meaning. For instance look at Matthew 7:27 and Luke 6:49 , which came to my remembrance --

καὶ κατέβη ἡ βροχὴ καὶ ἦλθον οἱ ποταμοὶ καὶ ἔπνευσαν οἱ ἄνεμοι καὶ προσέκοψαν τῇ οἰκίᾳ ἐκείνῃ, καὶ ἔπεσεν, καὶ ἦν ἡ πτῶσις αὐτῆς μεγάλη.

ὁ δὲ ἀκούσας καὶ μὴ ποιήσας ὅμοιός ἐστιν ἀνθρώπῳ οἰκοδομήσαντι οἰκίαν ἐπὶ τὴν γῆν χωρὶς θεμελίου, ᾗ προσέρηξεν ὁ ποταμός, καὶ εὐθὺς συνέπεσεν, καὶ ἐγένετο τὸ ῥῆγμα τῆς οἰκίας ἐκείνης μέγα.

-----
Now compare the following

John 1:1b καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν

and

Isaiah 38:4 καὶ ἐγένετο λόγος κυρίου πρὸς Ησαιαν

Matthew 7:27 and Luke 6:49 is irrefutable proof that two different Bible writers reported Jesus words describing the same exact event, one with γινομαι and the other with ειμι.

I approve this particular hermeneutic.

@John Milton
@τράπεζα
@Gryllus Maior
 
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