Codex Sinaiticus and Constantine Simonides and Vitaliano Donati 1761

Repetition. See the previous post.

Vitaliano's account, when put in historical (i.e. chronological) context, uses the correct technical paleographic vocabulary of the 18th century (i.e. the 1700's).

There is nothing wrong with an Italian scholar in the 1700's using the Italian word "rotonda" to describe one of the outstanding characteristics of the type of Greek Majuscule script that was used in the Codex Sinaiticus - as it was understood back then.

Fast forward circa 300 years, and the paleographic technical vocabulary for Greek Majuscule has expanded and developed into various categories that did not in exist in Vitaliano's time.
 
So why do five or ten observers call it square and nobody calls it round?

Your question illustrates the danger of three mistakes which you make regularly:

  1. The fallacy of appealing to an authority (whom you may not understand fully what they are saying = See 3 below)
  2. Committing contextomy
  3. Pretending to know more about Greek than the experts, when you haven't learned (nor understand) the language
 
Remember, all sorts of travelers were in Sinai, none mentioned a “Sinaiticus” type manuscript.

Except for Vitalino Donati in 1761. ?;) He described the exact type of manuscript.

Again, Mr Avery, you judge anachronistically. "Sinaiticus" in quote marks!

The Codex would not have been called any of the modern names below, prior to the 19th century (specifically prior to 1838):

  • Codex Sinaiticus
  • Codex Frederico-Augustanus
  • Codex Simonideios

Your judging from a faulty anachronistic premise, and that's why your conclusions are very wrong.
 
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Perhaps you might get a better understanding of what they mean by "boxy square script" in a paleographical context by the following:


Greek PaleographyFrom Antiquity to the Renaissance [by T. Janz]

Biblical Majuscule

Biblical majuscule is so called because it is illustrated particularly in the great Bible manuscripts of the fourth and fifth century such as Codex Vaticanus (discussed below), Codex Sinaiticus (currently dismembered and housed in various libraries but viewable on line) and Codex Alexandrinus (British Library, Royal 1.D.VIII). However, it was in fact used for writing all kinds of sacred and secular texts, not only Bibles. It makes its first appearance in papyri of the 2nd century C.E. and continued in use alongside minuscule well into the minuscule era.

According to the description provided in Cavallo’s book (mentioned in the preceding page), this script, which does not present any particular difficulties for decipherment, is characterized by:

  • a vertical axis;
  • letters of regular size (or "module"), both vertically and horizontally;
  • letter shapes which tend to fit into a square (so that letters such as epsilon, theta, omikron, sigma are circular);
  • noticeable separation of individual strokes within each letter (especially in oblique strokes which meet at right angles, as those in the letters beta, kappa and mu; and in the triangular alpha made up of three distinct strokes and easily confused with both delta and lambda);
  • a few specific strokes which regularly break out of the bilinear scheme (namely the descending strokes of ypsilon and rho, and the ascending and descending ones of phi and psi);
  • a general lack of flourishes or serifs at the ends of the strokes;
  • sophisticated stroke contrast with three levels of boldness in the strokes that compose a letter (thick, thin and intermediate), the vertical strokes being thick, the horizontal ones thin, and the oblique ones usually intermediate.

https://spotlight.vatlib.it/greek-paleography/feature/biblical-majuscule
 
Read the line in red on the Codex Sinaiticus "square" script and "circular" script...

Greek PaleographyFrom Antiquity to the Renaissance [by T. Janz]

Biblical Majuscule

Biblical majuscule is so called because it is illustrated particularly in the great Bible manuscripts of the fourth and fifth century such as Codex Vaticanus (discussed below), Codex Sinaiticus (currently dismembered and housed in various libraries but viewable on line) and Codex Alexandrinus (British Library, Royal 1.D.VIII). However, it was in fact used for writing all kinds of sacred and secular texts, not only Bibles. It makes its first appearance in papyri of the 2nd century C.E. and continued in use alongside minuscule well into the minuscule era.​
According to the description provided in Cavallo’s book (mentioned in the preceding page), this script, which does not present any particular difficulties for decipherment, is characterized by:​
  • a vertical axis;
  • letters of regular size (or "module"), both vertically and horizontally;
  • letter shapes which tend to fit into a square (so that letters such as epsilon, theta, omikron, sigma are circular);
  • noticeable separation of individual strokes within each letter (especially in oblique strokes which meet at right angles, as those in the letters beta, kappa and mu; and in the triangular alpha made up of three distinct strokes and easily confused with both delta and lambda);
  • a few specific strokes which regularly break out of the bilinear scheme (namely the descending strokes of ypsilon and rho, and the ascending and descending ones of phi and psi);
  • a general lack of flourishes or serifs at the ends of the strokes;
  • sophisticated stroke contrast with three levels of boldness in the strokes that compose a letter (thick, thin and intermediate), the vertical strokes being thick, the horizontal ones thin, and the oblique ones usually intermediate.


Biblical Majuscule includes both "square" and "circular" i.e. round (rotondo) characters.


You are welcome to show examples.

As pointed out on the other thread, the use of "rotondo" in Vitaliano's time, is no longer a valid objection, nor an obstacle to Vitaliano's description being the Codex Sinaiticus.

The Italian word "rotondo" comes from the Latin word "rotundus".

It's interesting to note the technical vocabulary used in Greek paleography at the time.

Vitaliano Donati's contemporary Bernard de Montfaucon's (who's lives overlapped by 24 years) wrote in 1708:


Berard de Montfaucon
"Palaeographia Graeca, sive, De Ortu et Progressu Literarum Graecarum"
Paris, 1708
Lib. I
Pages 113-114


"Prisca vero scriptio AEgyptiaca , qualis habetur in Codice Alexandrino, nunc Anglicano, cum aliis paris circiter aetatis omnino conſentit in exemplaribus videlicet Charactere unciali quadro et rotundo, cujusmodi [Page 114] observatur in Codicibus
ante septimum et octavum saeculum exaratis."


Berard de Montfaucon
"Greek Palaeography, or, On the Rise and Development of Greek Literature"
Paris, 1708
Book 1
Pages 113-114


“But it is a genuine ancient Egyptian script, such as is found in the Codex Alexandrinus (now English [Or: "Anglican"]) which is consistent [Or: “completely agrees”] with all the other exemplars [Or: “copies”] of about the same age, viz in the square and round uncial characters,
such as
[Page 114] is observed in the Codices written before the seventh and eighth centuries.”

Here we note that the Codex Alexandrinus is described in the technical terms of the time as being written in BOTH:


"CHARACTERE UNCIALI QUANDRO ET ROTUNDO"

"THE SQUARE AND ROUND UNCIAL CHARACTERS"


For his time, Vitaliano's description was accurate!

After his time, and specifically, after the Codex Sinaiticus was discovered, different names for categories of Greek Uncial script were invented and distinguished further than what was used in Vitaliano's time.

So, when taken in context, Vitaliano's use of Italian "rotondo" was not inaccurate by the Greek paleographic standards of the day/time/age.

That interesting picture again for you Stevie...


Cap 6c Page 188.jpg


You'd almost think the "rotundus" uncial script on the left was a lithograph of the Codex Sinaitiucs, wouldn't you Steven?
 
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Vitaliano Donati, 1761
Atti della Reale Accademia delle scienze di Torino”
Volume 8, 1873
Page 482

T. 2, p. 27:
“In questo monastero ritrovai una quantita grandissima di Codici membranacei, molti de’quali sono riposti in una Libreria, ed altri alla rinfusa in un pessimo magazzino. Quasi tutti sono membranacei per la maggior parte greci ; vi sono molti Santi Padri, ed Espositori Biblici, vari Codici di vite de’Santi, aleuni Storici, e pochi scrittori d'altre materie; ve ne sono alcuni che mi sembrarono anteriori al settimo secolo, ed in ispecie una Bibbia in membrane bellissime, assai grandi, sottili, e quadre scritta in carattere rotondo e hellissimo; conservano poi in Chiesa un Evangelistario greco in caraltere d'oro rotonda, che dovrebbe pur essere assai autico. Oltre i Codici Greci ne hanno moltissimi altri di Arabi, Soriani, Caldei, Illirici, Etiopi, ed in altre lingue; non ne vidi perd alcuno di latino. Fra i detti Codici osservai alcuni trattati greci di musica antica, e molti volnmi lunghissimi per uso liturgico.”

Vitaliano Donati, 1761
Proceedings of the Royal Academy of Sciences of Turin”
Volume 8, 1873
Page 482

Book 2, Page 27:
“It was in this monastery that I found the largest quantity of parchment codices, many of which are kept hidden away in a library, and others are loose in a jumble in a atrocious warehouse facility. Almost all of them are parchments, for the greatest part, Greek ones ; there are many Holy Fathers, and Biblical expositors, various codices of the lives of the Saints, a few historians ; and a few writers on other subjects. Some of which, and not a few of them, looked to me to be older than the seventh century, and there was one Bible in particular, on the most beautiful, extremely large, thin, square shaped parchments, which is written in the most beautiful round characters ; then they keep in the Church a Greek Evangelistry in golden round characters, that one also is supposed to be very [Or: “extremely”] ancient. Apart from the Greek Codices, they didn't appear to have a great variety of other languages, though there are some different ones in Arabic, Syrian, Chaldean, Illyrian, Ethiopian ; and I didn't see a wisp of any Latin ones either. Between the said Codices, I observed a few Greek treatises on ancient music, and many volumes, extremely long ones, for liturgical use...”



Cap 10a - Copy.PNG

Thin...


Cap 5d thinness - Copy.PNG
 
it can, as in the case of Codex Sinaiticus[12], last for at least a thousand years or more in very good condition.

You placed this scar tissue picture in earlier on another thread, unidentified, and ignored the question about the writing INSIDE the scar tissue.

Quire 85 Folio 3r
https://www.artsy.net/artwork/codex...e-quire-85-folio-3-recto-new-testament-volume

This INK IS WRITTEN INSIDE THE SCAR TISSUE

1 Thessalonians, 2:14 - 4:13 library: BL folio: 287 scribe: D

https://codexsinaiticus.org/en/manu...lioNo=3&lid=en&quireNo=85&side=r&zoomSlider=0

So that scar tissue was there 1650 years ago, and the ink was written inside?

And there was no deterioration of the ink in the 1650 years?
And the ink did not change the scar tissue.

Hmmmm...

1689461163810-png.4480
 
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The Italian word "rotondo" comes from the Latin word "rotundus".

It's interesting to note the technical vocabulary used in Greek paleography at the time.

Vitaliano Donati's contemporary Bernard de Montfaucon's (who's lives overlapped by 24 years) wrote in 1708:


Berard de Montfaucon
"Palaeographia Graeca, sive, De Ortu et Progressu Literarum Graecarum"
Paris, 1708
Lib. I
Pages 113-114


"Prisca vero scriptio AEgyptiaca , qualis habetur in Codice Alexandrino, nunc Anglicano, cum aliis paris circiter aetatis omnino conſentit in exemplaribus videlicet Charactere unciali quadro et rotundo, cujusmodi [Page 114] observatur in Codicibus
ante septimum et octavum saeculum exaratis."


Berard de Montfaucon
"Greek Palaeography, or, On the Rise and Development of Greek Literature"
Paris, 1708
Book 1
Pages 113-114


“But it is a genuine ancient Egyptian script, such as is found in the Codex Alexandrinus (now English [Or: "Anglican"]) which is consistent [Or: “completely agrees”] with all the other exemplars [Or: “copies”] of about the same age, viz in the square and round uncial characters,
such as [Page 114] is observed in the Codices written before the seventh and eighth centuries.”​

Here we note that the Codex Alexandrinus is described in the technical terms of the time as being written in BOTH:


"CHARACTERE UNCIALI QUANDRO ET ROTUNDO"

"THE SQUARE AND ROUND UNCIAL CHARACTERS"


The Codex Alexandrinus...

Cap 22 - Copy.PNG

Hmmmm
 
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Vitaliano Donati, 1761
Proceedings of the Royal Academy of Sciences of Turin”
Volume 8, 1873
Page 482

Book 2, Page 27:
“It was in this monastery that I found the largest quantity of parchment codices, many of which are kept hidden away in a library, and others are loose in a jumble in a atrocious warehouse facility. Almost all of them are parchments, for the greatest part, Greek ones ; there are many Holy Fathers, and Biblical expositors, various codices of the lives of the Saints, a few historians ; and a few writers on other subjects. Some of which, and not a few of them, looked to me to be older than the seventh century, and there was one Bible in particular, on the most beautiful, extremely large, thin, square shaped parchments, which is written in the most beautiful round characters ; then they keep in the Church a Greek Evangelistry in golden round characters, that one also is supposed to be very [Or: “extremely”] ancient. Apart from the Greek Codices, they didn't appear to have a great variety of other languages, though there are some different ones in Arabic, Syrian, Chaldean, Illyrian, Ethiopian ; and I didn't see a wisp of any Latin ones either. Between the said Codices, I observed a few Greek treatises on ancient music, and many volumes, extremely long ones, for liturgical use...”​


  • One Bible in particular
  • On the most beautiful (superlative "most" beautiful, not just beautiful) parchment
  • Extremely large parchment
  • Thin parchment
  • Square shaped parchment
  • Written in the most beautiful (superlative "most" beautiful, not just beautiful) rotondo uncial characters

Thin...hmmm


Cap 5d thinness - Copy.PNG
 
Vitaliano Donati, 1761
Proceedings of the Royal Academy of Sciences of Turin”
Volume 8, 1873
Page 482

Book 2, Page 27:
“It was in this monastery that I found the largest quantity of parchment codices, many of which are kept hidden away in a library, and others are loose in a jumble in a atrocious warehouse facility. Almost all of them are parchments, for the greatest part, Greek ones ; there are many Holy Fathers, and Biblical expositors, various codices of the lives of the Saints, a few historians ; and a few writers on other subjects. Some of which, and not a few of them, looked to me to be older than the seventh century, and there was one Bible in particular, on the most beautiful, extremely large, thin, square shaped parchments, which is written in the most beautiful round characters ; then they keep in the Church a Greek Evangelistry in golden round characters, that one also is supposed to be very [Or: “extremely”] ancient. Apart from the Greek Codices, they didn't appear to have a great variety of other languages, though there are some different ones in Arabic, Syrian, Chaldean, Illyrian, Ethiopian ; and I didn't see a wisp of any Latin either. Between the said Codices, I observed a few Greek treatises on ancient music, and many volumes, extremely long ones, for liturgical use...”​


  • One Bible in particular
  • On the most beautiful (superlative in Italian "most" beautiful, not just beautiful) parchment
  • Extremely large parchment
  • Thin parchment
  • Square shaped parchment
  • Written in the most beautiful (superlative in Italian "most" beautiful, not just beautiful) rotondo uncial characters


Cap 10a - Copy.PNG
 
Vitaliano Donati, 1761
Proceedings of the Royal Academy of Sciences of Turin”
Volume 8, 1873
Page 482

Book 2, Page 27:
“It was in this monastery that I found the largest quantity of parchment codices, many of which are kept hidden away in a library, and others are loose in a jumble in a atrocious warehouse facility. Almost all of them are parchments, for the greatest part, Greek ones ; there are many Holy Fathers, and Biblical expositors, various codices of the lives of the Saints, a few historians ; and a few writers on other subjects. Some of which, and not a few of them, looked to me to be older than the seventh century, and there was one Bible in particular, on the most beautiful, extremely large, thin, square shaped parchments, which is written in the most beautiful round characters ; then they keep in the Church a Greek Evangelistry in golden round characters, that one also is supposed to be very [Or: “extremely”] ancient. Apart from the Greek Codices, they didn't appear to have a great variety of other languages, though there are some different ones in Arabic, Syrian, Chaldean, Illyrian, Ethiopian ; and I didn't see a wisp of any Latin either. Between the said Codices, I observed a few Greek treatises on ancient music, and many volumes, extremely long ones, for liturgical use...”​

  • One Bible in particular
  • On the most beautiful (superlative in Italian "most" beautiful, not just beautiful) parchment
  • Extremely large parchment
  • Thin parchment
  • Square shaped parchment
  • Written in the most beautiful (superlative in Italian "most" beautiful, not just beautiful) rotondo uncial characters

Note how Montfaucon's (Vitaliano Donati's contemporary) "rotundus" script example looks very similar to the "rotondo" script of the Codex Sinaiticus.

Cap 6c Page 188.jpg
 
Vitaliano Donati, 1761
Proceedings of the Royal Academy of Sciences of Turin”
Volume 8, 1873
Page 482

Book 2, Page 27:
“It was in this monastery that I found the largest quantity of parchment codices, many of which are kept hidden away in a library, and others are loose in a jumble in a atrocious warehouse facility. Almost all of them are parchments, for the greatest part, Greek ones ; there are many Holy Fathers, and Biblical expositors, various codices of the lives of the Saints, a few historians ; and a few writers on other subjects. Some of which, and not a few of them, looked to me to be older than the seventh century, and there was one Bible in particular, on the most beautiful, extremely large, thin, square shaped parchments, which is written in the most beautiful round characters ; then they keep in the Church a Greek Evangelistry in golden round characters, that one also is supposed to be very [Or: “extremely”] ancient. Apart from the Greek Codices, they didn't appear to have a great variety of other languages, though there are some different ones in Arabic, Syrian, Chaldean, Illyrian, Ethiopian ; and I didn't see a wisp of any Latin either. Between the said Codices, I observed a few Greek treatises on ancient music, and many volumes, extremely long ones, for liturgical use...”​

  • One Bible in particular
  • On the most beautiful (superlative in Italian "most" beautiful, not just beautiful) parchment
  • Extremely large parchment
  • Thin parchment
  • Square shaped parchment
  • Written in the most beautiful (superlative in Italian "most" beautiful, not just beautiful) rotondo uncial characters

Was Vitaliano's "atrocious warehouse facility" in which parchments were kept "loose in a jumble" the New Finds room, discovered in 1975?


Cap 5b - Copy.png
 
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