Codex Sinaiticus and Constantine Simonides - was Simonides calligraphy skills good enough to forge the Codex Siniaticus?


You'll notice Steven, that all these forgeries are supposed to be:

  • Written by different writers (i.e. in a different hand supposedly)
  • Written in different century's (i.e. at different dates)
  • Written in different locations.

Yet they are all written in the one obvious hand - which is undeniably Simonides...

And as Muller pointed out, certain letters are a dead give away.

Of course, I qualify these comments, that there are minor variations in strokes etc, which Simonides has to do as a forger - so as not to make it TO obvious - but it can't be mistaken though... they are all in/by his hand.

These examples could be multiplied of course (and of course you know that, or, at least, should!).
 
You'll notice Steven, that all these forgeries are supposed to be:
  • Written by different writers (i.e. in a different hand supposedly)
  • Written in different century's (i.e. at different dates)
  • Written in different locations.
Yet they are all written in the one obvious hand - which is undeniably Simonides...
And as Muller pointed out, certain letters are a dead give away.
Of course, I qualify these comments, that there are minor variations in strokes etc, which Simonides has to do as a forger - so as not to make it TO obvious - but it can't be mistaken though... they are all in/by his hand.
These examples could be multiplied of course (and of course you know that, or, at least, should!).

Newsflash!
Constantine Simonides is accused of forgeries!

Yet his youthful participation in the fake Sinaiticus leads to veneration of the junque manuscript.
 
That interesting quote again.



Cap 1l3a.png



Compare a similar quote.


Siculorum Gymnasium - A Journal for the Humanites
"The so-called Artemidorus papyrus. A reconsideration."
di Luciano Canfora

Subheading 7. There are two works


[…] “No one who is aware of Simonides’ impressive works with papyrus will be surprised to see that the writing in the Panegyric to Geography and the Epitome of Spain appear to be the same. His papyruses in fact, as Livia Capponi has accurately pointed out in her important essay Visita ai papiri di Simonides, «although presented as texts by different authors from different eras, are characterized by similar writing. In other words, papyruses [which are supposed to be] from completely different eras and genres and of completely different provenance are often in exactly the same writing». She goes on to specify: «Simonides uses no more than four paleographic styles which resemble each other and are sometimes even found alongside each other in the same text».[26]
The photographic material gathered by Livia Capponi is particularly instructive and demonstrates moreover Simonides’ increasing interest in creating damaged, frayed papyruses (see plates 14 and 15 in the volume cited in the note).
One defect in the way he writes on papyrus is the almost total absence of ligatures between the letters as well as the distance between them (cfr. Capponi, p. 458): the same characteristic is to be found in the pseudo-Artemidorus.[27]

http://www.siculorum.unict.it/views/home/article-detail.php?id=264

[26] L. Capponi examined the collection of Simonides papyruses at the Museum of Liverpool on 9 November 2007. She wrote an account of what she saw and this, along with a considerable quantity of accompanying photographic evidence, can be found in her above-mentioned essay, which is appended to the volume L. Canfora, Il papiro di Artemidoro, Roma-Bari, Laterza, 2008, pp. 457-461.

http://www.siculorum.unict.it/views/home/article-detail.php?id=264#_ftn26

A sample of Simonides handwriting.


Cap 14a (1).png

Left (Above)
Fragment IV of the Gospel of Matthew (Codex Mayerianus)
https://archive.org/details/gri_33125008398303/page/n68/mode/1up

Right (Above)
Uranius Palimpsest Forgery (O.N. Cod. Suppl. gr. 119)


Note the absolutely identical handwriting in three of the forgeries of the Greek word και = "and" (and one "ka" Kappa and Alpha) in the image below.

Cap 1l2a - Copy (1).png


Constantine Simonides' Hand Writing

Top left (above)

Hegesippus Forgery (Codex Mayerianus)
http://www.forgingantiquity.com/gallerySimonides

Bottom left (above)
Gospel of Matthew 28 Forgery (World Museum)
https://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/artifact/gospel-of-matthew-28-6-16-18-20-forgery

Top right (above)
Homer's Illiad Forgery (Brit. Lib., Ms. Add. 41478)

Bottom right (above)
Uranius Palimpsest Forgery (O.N. Cod. Suppl. gr. 119)​
 

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All these forgeries are supposed to be:

  • Written by different writers (i.e. in a different hand supposedly)
  • Written in different century's (i.e. at different dates)
  • Written in different locations.

Yet they are all written in one and the same obvious hand - which is undeniably Simonides...
 
Another interesting quote.

[...] "His judgment got an unexpected boost with a letter published in the TLS on 14 March from a Greek architect, Ms. Haris Kalligas:

[...] During my term of office as Director of the Gennadius Library in Athens, I had the chance to examine in detail various holdings of the Library referring to Simonides. To my great surprise his forgeries are so evident and so clumsy that I was really mystified as to how it could have been possible for him to fool eminent philologists of the nineteenth century, who should have been familiar with authentic manuscripts."​

http://judithweingarten.blogspot.com/2008/05/bakers-daughter-and-artemidorus-papyrus.html
 
Constantine Simonides' Hand Writing
Bottom right (above)
Uranius Palimpsest Forgery (O.N. Cod. Suppl. gr. 119)​

No url source given for your "Uranius" picture, and any pages of Cod Suppl. gr. 119 in Austria are Hermas palimpsest pages.

O.N. == Österreichische Nationalbibliothek (Austrian National Library)
 
Another interesting quote.

[...] "His judgment got an unexpected boost with a letter published in the TLS on 14 March from a Greek architect, Ms. Haris Kalligas:

[...] During my term of office as Director of the Gennadius Library in Athens, I had the chance to examine in detail various holdings of the Library referring to Simonides. To my great surprise his forgeries are so evident and so clumsy that I was really mystified as to how it could have been possible for him to fool eminent philologists of the nineteenth century, who should have been familiar with authentic manuscripts."​

http://judithweingarten.blogspot.com/2008/05/bakers-daughter-and-artemidorus-papyrus.html

This is from Haris Kalligas, and received a sharp reply from Luciano Canfora, who makes the case for the Artemidorus Papyrus being a rather skilled Simonides production.

Still, the comment may well be true, at least in some cases, and it should be applied most fully and directly to the socalled "Codex Sinaiticus".

Although Sinaiticus had the major advantage in pretend antiquity of being unavailable for examination, and with the two sections that would quickly spill the beans being far apart. In fact the Russian part was locked in a safe during the years while the age was being debated!

Palaeography the Jewel!

Thanks!

And Sinaiticus is transparently a garbage attempt. Like Uranios, no provenance. The parchment is like new, flexible, turning easy-peasy, in phenomenally good condition. There is no ink-acid destruction of parchment. One of the two sections is “yellow with age” by staining, much darker than the other, and this dark part is only the later 1859 portion that is darker than the 1844 Leipzig 43 leaves. It was too late to stain the Leipzig pages after they got to the University Library. The staining was made public in 1862-63 through Simonides and Kallinikos in a “called shot”.

The thousands of itacisms, mis-spellings and scribal blunders of many types would not occur on an authentic manuscript, they were the result of modern unfamiliarity with the Biblical Greek dialects, especially by the young Simonides.

Tischendorf worked hard to keep the sections separate and inaccessible. Use my $$ book!
Nobody even visually compared the two sections during the controversies.

If Sinaiticus had been subject to Uranios-style examination and tests, the laughter would have echoed through the German beer halls.
 
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No url source given for your "Uranius" picture, and any pages of Cod Suppl. gr. 119 in Austria are Hermas palimpsest pages.

O.N. == Österreichische Nationalbibliothek (Austrian National Library)

The Uranios was the forgery that was chiefly responsible for duping Hodgkin's.

But, you can see by my screen shots, that it is indisputably one and the same handwriting of Simonides, side by side.

Hodgkin's was sucked in deeply for many years, but saw the light in the end.
 
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The Uranios was the forgery that was chiefly responsible for duping Hodgkin's.
But, you can see by my screen shots, that it is indisputably one and the same handwriting of Simonides, side by side.

You did not actually show Uranios in your screen shots.

A “thank you for the correction” would be a good response.
 
Prove it.

Above I showed you that the Greek manuscript number you put with the picture is that of Hermas at the Austrian Library in Vienna.
Yet you say it is Uranios. So Houston has a problem.

Es suficiente.

We have seen in the past that you are not concerned with accuracy, this just happens to be one that is a bit unusual.
 
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Above I showed you that the Greek manuscript number you put with the picture is that of Hermas at the Austrian Library in Vienna.
Yet you say it is Uranios. So Houston has a problem.

Es suficiente.

We have seen in the past that you are not concerned with accuracy, this just happens to be one that is a bit unusual.

Prove its not a Uranios palimpsest.
 
Prove its not a Uranios palimpsest.

Why should I correct your error?

Even if it was a page from a Uranios palimpsest, previously unknown from somewhere, you would still have to give it the correct identity.

It is your error, your embarrassment that you cannot make a correction, but it is typical TNC.
The error itself is not such a big deal, it is your stonewalling that really demonstrates your problem.
 
Why should I correct your error?

Even if it was a page from a Uranios palimpsest, previously unknown from somewhere, you would still have to give it the correct identity.

It is your error, your embarrassment that you cannot make a correction, but it is typical TNC.
The error itself is not such a big deal, it is your stonewalling that really demonstrates your problem.

You haven't proved it's an error.
 
Simonides giving that Hermas palimpsest page Graecus 119 to the Austrian Library gets mentioned in various places. This fragment was studied in the Genius book using scientific tools, apparently they wanted to know if the overtext is authentic, which is a bit puzzling.

Christian Gasteber p. 207 in the Genius book also has a discussion.

Biographical Memoir of 1859 on p. 43-44 and p. 85 is another.

========================

In the Biographical Memoir Uranios is discussed in various spots, on p. 44 Simonides says he is keeping it, maybe it could end up in a Greek library .
Afaik so far, it got lost in the shuffle and nothing is extant of the actual manuscript.

========================

"After that, the Uranius palimpsest disappeared.46"
46 A few years later, on April 24, 1869, the journal Notes and Queries published a note on Simonides by Samuel Prideaux Tregelles that ended with the question: ‘On behalf of Prof. W. Dindorf, of Leipsic, I have also to ask: Whether the parchment MS. of the so-called “Uranius of Simonides” is preserved in the collection of Mr. Mayer at Liverpool or elsewhere? I shall be glad to communicate to him the answer that I may receive’,
cf. Tregelles 1869.

Tregelles, Samuel Prideaux (1869), “Codex Mayerianus and Simonides”, in: Notes and Queries, 4th S., III, April 24, 389.

Genius
Simonides in England, A Forger's Paradise p. 122
Pasquale Massimo Pinto

========================

For Tischendorf, this might help determine what position he took publicly when:

1690680598775.png

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Here is the Hermas text on p. 238 of Genius.

Die getäuschte Wissenschaft - (2015)
A Genius Fools Europe

Multi Spectral Imaging for the Analysis of Historical
Handwritings and Forgery Detection
Fabian Hollaus / Robert Sablatnig

Hermas in Vienna Austria from Genius book
"Suppl. gr. 119 housed in the Austrian National Library"


1690723864243.png

It can be compared with what TNC calls Uranios at
https://forums.carm.org/threads/cod...he-codex-siniaticus.14468/page-8#post-1238640

TNC identification made larger and bold

.
Bottom right (above)
Uranius Palimpsest Forgery (O.N. Cod. Suppl. gr. 119)

1690724322413.png
 
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