Coincidences and Conspiracy Theories, or Signs and Wonders?

shnarkle

Well-known member
Is it just a coincidence that the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade on the same day much of Christendom celebrates the Nativity of John the Baptist?

That's not really all that big of a deal. However, what if it was actually the same day the Baptist was conceived? The very day life actually begins!

How did the church figure out when John the Baptist and Christ were born, and what about these other dates that the church has been celebrating?

"We pass on now to consider, in the third place, the commemoration of September 29, the festival of Michaelmas, par excellence. It does not appear at all certain what was the original special idea of the commemoration of this day" (Smith's Dict. of Chr. Antiqq. (1893), vol. ii, p. 1177).

Just as I thought! That "Christmas" was a pagan festival long before the time of Christ is beyond doubt. In Egypt Horus (or Harpocrates), the son of Isis (Queen of Heaven), was born about the time of winter solstice.

When many of the followers of the old pagan systems adopted the Christian religion as a cult, which Constantine had made fashionable, and the "Church" became the Church of the Roman Empire, they brought in with them, among a number of other things emanating from Egypt and Babylon, the various Festival Days of the old "religions".

Most are satisfied with this explanation, but there must be some reference within scripture to establish these dates and as it turns out there are two. In Luke 1:25,26, we read that Elizabeth is six months pregnant when Mary conceives. The other is in Luke 1:5 which refers to Zacharias performing his priestly duties during "the course of Abia."

This was the eighth of the priestly courses of ministration in the Temple (I Chron. 24:10). The "Courses" were changed every week, beginning each with a Sabbath. The reckoning commenced on the 22nd day of Tisri or Ethanim. This was the eighth and last day of the Feast of Tabernacles = the "Great Day of the Feast" (John 7:37), and was a Sabbath (Lev. 23:39) The first course fell by lot to Jehoiarib, and the eighth to Abia or Abijah (1Chron. 24:10).

Bearing in mind that all the courses served together at the three Great Feasts, the dates for the two yearly "ministrations" of Abiah will be seen to fall as follows:
The first ministration was from 12 - 18 Chisleu = December 6 - 12.
The second ministration was from 12 -18 Sivan = June 13 - 19.

The announcement therefore to Zacharias in the Temple as to the conception of John the Baptist took place between 12 - 18 SIVAN (June 13 -19), in the year 5 B.C. After finishing his "ministration", the aged priest "departed to his own house" (Luke 1:23) which was in a city in "the hill country" of Juda (verse 39).

The day following the end of the "Course of Abia" being a Sabbath (Sivan 19), he would not be able to leave Jerusalem before the 20th. The thirty miles journey would probably occupy, for an old man, a couple of days at least. He would therefore arrive at his house on the 21st or 22nd. This leaves ample time for the miraculous "conception" of Elizabeth to take place on or about the 23rd of Sivan - which would correspond to June 23 -24 of that year.

So, it is on the same date as the CONCEPTION of the forerunner that the Supreme court announces the overturn of Roe V. Wade.

Just a coincidence? Regardless of whether one believes the author is presenting historical, liturgical, fictional, or mythological narratives, it's interesting that the Supreme court makes this announcement on this same date.
 

Nedsk

Well-known member
Is it just a coincidence that the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade on the same day much of Christendom celebrates the Nativity of John the Baptist?

That's not really all that big of a deal. However, what if it was actually the same day the Baptist was conceived? The very day life actually begins!

How did the church figure out when John the Baptist and Christ were born, and what about these other dates that the church has been celebrating?

"We pass on now to consider, in the third place, the commemoration of September 29, the festival of Michaelmas, par excellence. It does not appear at all certain what was the original special idea of the commemoration of this day" (Smith's Dict. of Chr. Antiqq. (1893), vol. ii, p. 1177).

Just as I thought! That "Christmas" was a pagan festival long before the time of Christ is beyond doubt. In Egypt Horus (or Harpocrates), the son of Isis (Queen of Heaven), was born about the time of winter solstice.

When many of the followers of the old pagan systems adopted the Christian religion as a cult, which Constantine had made fashionable, and the "Church" became the Church of the Roman Empire, they brought in with them, among a number of other things emanating from Egypt and Babylon, the various Festival Days of the old "religions".

Most are satisfied with this explanation, but there must be some reference within scripture to establish these dates and as it turns out there are two. In Luke 1:25,26, we read that Elizabeth is six months pregnant when Mary conceives. The other is in Luke 1:5 which refers to Zacharias performing his priestly duties during "the course of Abia."

This was the eighth of the priestly courses of ministration in the Temple (I Chron. 24:10). The "Courses" were changed every week, beginning each with a Sabbath. The reckoning commenced on the 22nd day of Tisri or Ethanim. This was the eighth and last day of the Feast of Tabernacles = the "Great Day of the Feast" (John 7:37), and was a Sabbath (Lev. 23:39) The first course fell by lot to Jehoiarib, and the eighth to Abia or Abijah (1Chron. 24:10).

Bearing in mind that all the courses served together at the three Great Feasts, the dates for the two yearly "ministrations" of Abiah will be seen to fall as follows:
The first ministration was from 12 - 18 Chisleu = December 6 - 12.
The second ministration was from 12 -18 Sivan = June 13 - 19.

The announcement therefore to Zacharias in the Temple as to the conception of John the Baptist took place between 12 - 18 SIVAN (June 13 -19), in the year 5 B.C. After finishing his "ministration", the aged priest "departed to his own house" (Luke 1:23) which was in a city in "the hill country" of Juda (verse 39).

The day following the end of the "Course of Abia" being a Sabbath (Sivan 19), he would not be able to leave Jerusalem before the 20th. The thirty miles journey would probably occupy, for an old man, a couple of days at least. He would therefore arrive at his house on the 21st or 22nd. This leaves ample time for the miraculous "conception" of Elizabeth to take place on or about the 23rd of Sivan - which would correspond to June 23 -24 of that year.

So, it is on the same date as the CONCEPTION of the forerunner that the Supreme court announces the overturn of Roe V. Wade.

Just a coincidence? Regardless of whether one believes the author is presenting historical, liturgical, fictional, or mythological narratives, it's interesting that the Supreme court makes this announcement on this same date.
And ultimately most important the horrific legal decision of roe is overturned. Amen
 

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
Is it just a coincidence that the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade on the same day much of Christendom celebrates the Nativity of John the Baptist?

That's not really all that big of a deal. However, what if it was actually the same day the Baptist was conceived? The very day life actually begins!

How did the church figure out when John the Baptist and Christ were born, and what about these other dates that the church has been celebrating?

"We pass on now to consider, in the third place, the commemoration of September 29, the festival of Michaelmas, par excellence. It does not appear at all certain what was the original special idea of the commemoration of this day" (Smith's Dict. of Chr. Antiqq. (1893), vol. ii, p. 1177).

Just as I thought! That "Christmas" was a pagan festival long before the time of Christ is beyond doubt. In Egypt Horus (or Harpocrates), the son of Isis (Queen of Heaven), was born about the time of winter solstice.

When many of the followers of the old pagan systems adopted the Christian religion as a cult, which Constantine had made fashionable, and the "Church" became the Church of the Roman Empire, they brought in with them, among a number of other things emanating from Egypt and Babylon, the various Festival Days of the old "religions".

Most are satisfied with this explanation, but there must be some reference within scripture to establish these dates and as it turns out there are two. In Luke 1:25,26, we read that Elizabeth is six months pregnant when Mary conceives. The other is in Luke 1:5 which refers to Zacharias performing his priestly duties during "the course of Abia."

This was the eighth of the priestly courses of ministration in the Temple (I Chron. 24:10). The "Courses" were changed every week, beginning each with a Sabbath. The reckoning commenced on the 22nd day of Tisri or Ethanim. This was the eighth and last day of the Feast of Tabernacles = the "Great Day of the Feast" (John 7:37), and was a Sabbath (Lev. 23:39) The first course fell by lot to Jehoiarib, and the eighth to Abia or Abijah (1Chron. 24:10).

Bearing in mind that all the courses served together at the three Great Feasts, the dates for the two yearly "ministrations" of Abiah will be seen to fall as follows:
The first ministration was from 12 - 18 Chisleu = December 6 - 12.
The second ministration was from 12 -18 Sivan = June 13 - 19.

The announcement therefore to Zacharias in the Temple as to the conception of John the Baptist took place between 12 - 18 SIVAN (June 13 -19), in the year 5 B.C. After finishing his "ministration", the aged priest "departed to his own house" (Luke 1:23) which was in a city in "the hill country" of Juda (verse 39).

The day following the end of the "Course of Abia" being a Sabbath (Sivan 19), he would not be able to leave Jerusalem before the 20th. The thirty miles journey would probably occupy, for an old man, a couple of days at least. He would therefore arrive at his house on the 21st or 22nd. This leaves ample time for the miraculous "conception" of Elizabeth to take place on or about the 23rd of Sivan - which would correspond to June 23 -24 of that year.

So, it is on the same date as the CONCEPTION of the forerunner that the Supreme court announces the overturn of Roe V. Wade.

Just a coincidence? Regardless of whether one believes the author is presenting historical, liturgical, fictional, or mythological narratives, it's interesting that the Supreme court makes this announcement on this same date.
I applaud the spirit in which this is written.

However, as Freud said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

Human beings seem to have an innate need to make or see connections between things. Because of our need to process information and make decisions quickly, we often have to make decisions with incomplete data. Thus, sometimes the brain will fill in the gaps. The brain does not always do this accurately.

Hence, someone is involved in a car accident and they survive. Despite their survival being the luck of the draw, they may remark "Someone was watching over me." And they believe it. Of course the other end of that is "Was someone not watching over the person who was severely injured or died?"

My point is simply to caution people against reading too much into the date Roe was handed down. Why? Because now the fight against abortion turns to the states--and you will probably see much of the same from abortion supporters at the state level. In other words in states with laws against abortion, lawyers will just turn to the state courts and ask the state courts to over-turn the civil, democratic process and just create abortion out of nothing like the SCOTUS did with Roe. This has already happened in several states and the courts were very happy to comply.

Getting Roe over-turned at the federal level--was an important victory, but the fight against abortion continues to rage. Pro-lifers are going to suffer some heavy losses at the state level, but the fight rages on and will likely rage on until Christ comes again. Christians need to work on converting people, converting minds and hearts.
 

CrowCross

Super Member
That's not really all that big of a deal. However, what if it was actually the same day the Baptist was conceived? The very day life actually begins!
Interesting connection.

I also found it interesting about John...as Luke put it....And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit,

Luke under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit called John a "baby"...while still in the womb.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
I applaud the spirit in which this is written.

However, as Freud said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

Human beings seem to have an innate need to make or see connections between things. Because of our need to process information and make decisions quickly, we often have to make decisions with incomplete data. Thus, sometimes the brain will fill in the gaps. The brain does not always do this accurately.
So they didn't reveal this decision on June 24th? Perhaps you've got some evidence that refutes what was presented in the OP?
Hence, someone is involved in a car accident and they survive. Despite their survival being the luck of the draw, they may remark "Someone was watching over me."
False equivalency. I'm not presenting anything of the sort. I'm pointing out that the day in which God chose for John's conception and which mainstream Christianity has celebrated ever since is the exact same day the Supreme court chose to reveal their decision to overturn a decision which denies the value of human conception.
And they believe it. Of course the other end of that is "Was someone not watching over the person who was severely injured or died?"

My point is simply to caution people against reading too much into the date Roe was handed down.
It's completely haphazard, and yet it's also the day Christianity celebrates the forerunner of salvation's conception!
Why? Because now the fight against abortion turns to the states--and you will probably see much of the same from abortion supporters at the state level. In other words in states with laws against abortion, lawyers will just turn to the state courts and ask the state courts to over-turn the civil, democratic process and just create abortion out of nothing like the SCOTUS did with Roe. This has already happened in several states and the courts were very happy to comply.
And as I pointed out already, even if Christianity is pure fiction, the Supreme court didn't intentionally choose to reveal this on the very day Christianity celebrates the nativity of John the Baptist. It's just a coincidence, but one that I personally find intriguing. I have no doubt the rest of this fallen world has no idea of its significance and couldn't care less. The point here is that it is significant. It's as significant to me as all the planets in our solar system lining up is to astronomers and astrologers alike. My point is that this alignment would never have taken place had God not inspired someone to document these facts in scripture.
Getting Roe over-turned at the federal level--was an important victory, but the fight against abortion continues to rage. Pro-lifers are going to suffer some heavy losses at the state level, but the fight rages on and will likely rage on until Christ comes again. Christians need to work on converting people, converting minds and hearts.
What better way than revealing some of the hidden wonders of the bible? Here are some more:

The fact of the conception and itd date would necessarily be known at the time and afterwards, and hence the 23rd of SIVAN would henceforth be associated with the conception of John the Baptist as the 1st of TEBETH would be with that of our Lord (Luke 1:25,26).

But the same influences that speedily obscured and presently obliterated the real dates of our Lord's "Begetting" and Birth, were also at work with regard to those of the Forerunner, and with the same results. As soon as the true Birth day of Christ had been shifted from its proper date, viz. the 15th of Tisri (September 29), and a Festival Day from the Pagan Calendars substituted for it (viz. December 25), then everything else had to be altered too.

Hence "Lady Day" in association with March 25 (new style) became necessarily connected with the Annunciation. And June 24 made its appearance as it still is in our Calendar, as the date of "the Nativity of John the Baptist", instead of , as it really is, the date of his miraculous conception.

The Four "Quarter Days" may therefore be set forth thus: first in the chronological order of the events with which they are associated, viz.:

The Conception of John Baptist on or about 23rd SIVAN = June 24 in the year 5 B.C.

The Gennesis (Begetting six months later) of our Lord on or about 1st TEBETH = December 25 in the year 5 B. C.


The birth of John Baptist on or about 4th-7th NISAN = March 25-28 in the year 4 B. C.

The birth of our Lord on or about 15th TISRI = September 29 in the year 4 B. C.
or, placing the two sets together naturally : --


The conception of John 23rd SIVAN = June 23-24 in the year 5 B.C.

The birth of John 7th NISAN = March 28-29 in the year 4 B. C.


The Miraculous "Begetting" 1st TEBETH = December 25 in the year 5 B. C.

The NATIVITY 15th TISRI = September 29 in the year 4 B. C.

Again, note the coincidence of Christ "tabernacling" on the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles with his circumcision on the last day of the feast.

The other thing I'd like to point out here is that either these days are ordained by God, or they're intentionally associated with these events by the authors themselves. If the former is true, then God is in the habit of doing these things. If it's the latter, then these are not historical narratives at all, but intentionally designed to link Christ with these Feast days.

Take your pick ;)
 

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
So they didn't reveal this decision on June 24th? Perhaps you've got some evidence that refutes what was presented in the OP?

False equivalency. I'm not presenting anything of the sort. I'm pointing out that the day in which God chose for John's conception and which mainstream Christianity has celebrated ever since is the exact same day the Supreme court chose to reveal their decision to overturn a decision which denies the value of human conception.

It's completely haphazard, and yet it's also the day Christianity celebrates the forerunner of salvation's conception!

And as I pointed out already, even if Christianity is pure fiction, the Supreme court didn't intentionally choose to reveal this on the very day Christianity celebrates the nativity of John the Baptist. It's just a coincidence, but one that I personally find intriguing. I have no doubt the rest of this fallen world has no idea of its significance and couldn't care less. The point here is that it is significant. It's as significant to me as all the planets in our solar system lining up is to astronomers and astrologers alike. My point is that this alignment would never have taken place had God not inspired someone to document these facts in scripture.

What better way than revealing some of the hidden wonders of the bible? Here are some more:

The fact of the conception and itd date would necessarily be known at the time and afterwards, and hence the 23rd of SIVAN would henceforth be associated with the conception of John the Baptist as the 1st of TEBETH would be with that of our Lord (Luke 1:25,26).

But the same influences that speedily obscured and presently obliterated the real dates of our Lord's "Begetting" and Birth, were also at work with regard to those of the Forerunner, and with the same results. As soon as the true Birth day of Christ had been shifted from its proper date, viz. the 15th of Tisri (September 29), and a Festival Day from the Pagan Calendars substituted for it (viz. December 25), then everything else had to be altered too.

Hence "Lady Day" in association with March 25 (new style) became necessarily connected with the Annunciation. And June 24 made its appearance as it still is in our Calendar, as the date of "the Nativity of John the Baptist", instead of , as it really is, the date of his miraculous conception.

The Four "Quarter Days" may therefore be set forth thus: first in the chronological order of the events with which they are associated, viz.:

The Conception of John Baptist on or about 23rd SIVAN = June 24 in the year 5 B.C.

The Gennesis (Begetting six months later) of our Lord on or about 1st TEBETH = December 25 in the year 5 B. C.


The birth of John Baptist on or about 4th-7th NISAN = March 25-28 in the year 4 B. C.

The birth of our Lord on or about 15th TISRI = September 29 in the year 4 B. C.
or, placing the two sets together naturally : --


The conception of John 23rd SIVAN = June 23-24 in the year 5 B.C.

The birth of John 7th NISAN = March 28-29 in the year 4 B. C.


The Miraculous "Begetting" 1st TEBETH = December 25 in the year 5 B. C.

The NATIVITY 15th TISRI = September 29 in the year 4 B. C.

Again, note the coincidence of Christ "tabernacling" on the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles with his circumcision on the last day of the feast.

The other thing I'd like to point out here is that either these days are ordained by God, or they're intentionally associated with these events by the authors themselves. If the former is true, then God is in the habit of doing these things. If it's the latter, then these are not historical narratives at all, but intentionally designed to link Christ with these Feast days.

Take your pick ;)
Well, I happen to just think it is a coincidence. But you are free to believe what you want.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
Interesting connection.

I also found it interesting about John...as Luke put it....And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit,

Luke under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit called John a "baby"...while still in the womb.
I was going to post that and scrolled down to see your post.

So 2000 years ago they understood "she was with child"

(Fetus is Latin and John was not writing latin)

Same with Jacob and Esau.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
I was going to post that and scrolled down to see your post.

So 2000 years ago they understood "she was with child"

(Fetus is Latin and John was not writing latin)

Same with Jacob and Esau.
There's an interesting argument presented by skeptics with regards to the number of people in Jacob's caravan. Those who are named don't add up to the number provided. Then when they arrive, the numbers do add up because Dinah was born and named by that time. So, God counts the unborn.
 
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