Colossians 1:15

SteveB

Well-known member
None of that proves Jesus has been around longer than about 2,000 years. In fact heb. 1:5 says today you have become my Son. Meaning on a certain day Jesus became the Son.
Well, you enjoy your myopic view.
I've yet to see where you have actually answered my question about how the first born becomes the first created.

And considering that Colossians 1:16 plainly stated that Jesus created everything, and without him, nothing that exists could exist, yet Genesis 1:1 said that God created everything, it seems to me that you are not paying attention.
 

e v e

Super Member
The irony is..... they missed so much when they rewrote the bible.
John 1:3 states that the Logos of God created everything, and without him--- nothing that exists, could exist.
They missed Hebrews 1:2-4,
Jesus created everything, and holds it all together by the word of his power.
Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:16-19,

they missed Titus statements regarding how God, and Jesus BOTH are Savior (one instance of each, in each chapter), and they missed Isaiah 43:10-11, and Hosea 13:4 how that YHVH and YHVH alone is Savior.
It goes on, and on, and on.....
His words have been rewritten way before that... esau has been busy for centuries.
 

TibiasDad

Well-known member
It never says Jesus was called the logos. It says in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God. Nowhere is a Son of God documented until after the Word became flesh. You can not and never will be able to clearly document there was a Son of God before the Word became flesh Notice they were told to call him Jesus when he was born on earth. That is the first documented part where there is a Son of God called Jesus.
The Logos is a distinct personage from the Father/God, correct? Then if the distinct person that was with the Father/God became/took on flesh, then that distinct person is the son, because Jesus speaks of the glory that he had with the Father in the beginning. (John 17:5)

The Logos is credited with being the one through whom all that was created came to be, and Jesus is given the same credit. They are the same person in different circumstances, the Logos in prehistoric existence with the Father, and the incarnate Logos known as Jesus. So the Logos is the Son is God’s mind because Isaiah 9:6 speaks of the Son being given in present tense. “Unto us a son is given!”

Doug
 

Nathan P

Member
The Logos is a distinct personage from the Father/God, correct? Then if the distinct person that was with the Father/God became/took on flesh, then that distinct person is the son, because Jesus speaks of the glory that he had with the Father in the beginning. (John 17:5)

The Logos is credited with being the one through whom all that was created came to be, and Jesus is given the same credit. They are the same person in different circumstances, the Logos in prehistoric existence with the Father, and the incarnate Logos known as Jesus. So the Logos is the Son is God’s mind because Isaiah 9:6 speaks of the Son being given in present tense. “Unto us a son is given!”

Doug
Clearly show us where Jesus and the logos are the same one in different circumstances? Until you can there was no Son of God until the Word became flesh.
 

Nathan P

Member
Well, you enjoy your myopic view.
I've yet to see where you have actually answered my question about how the first born becomes the first created.

And considering that Colossians 1:16 plainly stated that Jesus created everything, and without him, nothing that exists could exist, yet Genesis 1:1 said that God created everything, it seems to me that you are not paying attention.
No it clearly states that Jesus can not be the creator and this has been explained to you many times The Father is the subject until vs 14 for sure, then at 15 it says he is an image of the invisible God or he is a image of the subject and not the subject. Also look up the dictionary version of the word (of) and the subject is always on the right of the word of and the Father is on the right and is the subject.
 

Nathan P

Member
The simple point is, that the Logos and Jesus are the same personage. The Logos became flesh and in this earthy realm is known or call by the name Jesus. I have a screen/virtual name, TibiasDad, and an legal name Doug, but both are the same person. The pre-incarnate name is Logos, and the post-incarnate is Jesus. It is the same personage.

Doug No you have to show us and clearly document that there was a Son of God before the Word became flesh because all you are doing it making it say what you want it to say. Again clearly document there was a Son of God before the Word became flesh because if there was the Father would not hide it and he would have clearly documented it? And the evidence says Jesus was known as the logos after he became flesh. There was no Jesus until he was born on earth.
 

Nathan P

Member
John 1:14

Doug
When will you get that when I say clearly document that there was a Son of God before the Word became flesh is that means to show us clearly where it says there was a "Son of God" before the Word became flesh and not for you to hint at it? You can not do it and thus there could not have always have been a Son of God and thus the trinity is destroyed. There has only been a Son of God for the last 2,ooo or so years that is documented clearly.
 

TibiasDad

Well-known member
When will you get that when I say clearly document that there was a Son of God before the Word became flesh is that means to show us clearly where it says there was a "Son of God" before the Word became flesh and not for you to hint at it? You can not do it and thus there could not have always have been a Son of God and thus the trinity is destroyed. There has only been a Son of God for the last 2,ooo or so years that is documented clearly.

You asked, "Clearly show us where Jesus and the logos are the same one in different circumstances? Until you can there was no Son of God until the Word became flesh."

To which I answered, John 1:14.

I am not discussing whether "there was a Son of God" before the Word became flesh! I am discussing whether or not the person of the Logos is a different person than the Word became flesh. He isn't!


Doug
 

Nathan P

Member
You asked, "Clearly show us where Jesus and the logos are the same one in different circumstances? Until you can there was no Son of God until the Word became flesh."

To which I answered, John 1:14.

I am not discussing whether "there was a Son of God" before the Word became flesh! I am discussing whether or not the person of the Logos is a different person than the Word became flesh. He isn't!


Doug
That is not the point right now whether they are the same person. Again can you clearly document where it says there was a Son of God before the Word became flesh?
 

TibiasDad

Well-known member
That is not the point right now whether they are the same person. Again can you clearly document where it says there was a Son of God before the Word became flesh?

That was the point in the beginning, and that was the point in your post to which I have now responded twice. I have never brought up the Son of God question in any of our discussions in this conversation, and I will not divert the conversation to this question.

John says the Logos was in the beginning with God, and was the means through which all creation came into being. This Logos took on flesh and became a human being who, in his earthly incarnation became know as Jesus Christ.


Doug
 

Nathan P

Member
That was the point in the beginning, and that was the point in your post to which I have now responded twice. I have never brought up the Son of God question in any of our discussions in this conversation, and I will not divert the conversation to this question.

John says the Logos was in the beginning with God, and was the means through which all creation came into being. This Logos took on flesh and became a human being who, in his earthly incarnation became know as Jesus Christ.


Doug
Exactly it says in his earthly incarnation he was known as Jesus and only then is it documented that he was the Son of God. The Word is not the Son of God or Jesus unless you can document what you say.
 

Nathan P

Member
That was the point in the beginning, and that was the point in your post to which I have now responded twice. I have never brought up the Son of God question in any of our discussions in this conversation, and I will not divert the conversation to this question.

John says the Logos was in the beginning with God, and was the means through which all creation came into being. This Logos took on flesh and became a human being who, in his earthly incarnation became know as Jesus Christ.


Doug
So you did not bring it up about documenting that there was a documented Son of God before the Word became flesh. If no one has to document what they say they can make the bible say what they want it to say. You can not even document that the Word and Jesus were the same one. It says the Word became flesh and thus that proves that one was heavenly and the other one was earthly.
 
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