Colossians 1:15

SteveB

Well-known member
You do under stand that the book of Revelation which is the unveiling of Christ in us is mainly figurative?



God bless you,

SeventhDay
Perhaps for you.

For the rest of us, it's the house cleaning and then Jesus actually arriving on the earth, to take his rightful place as King.
 

SeventhDay

Active member
Perhaps for you.

For the rest of us, it's the house cleaning and then Jesus actually arriving on the earth, to take his rightful place as King.
It is this king that is bringing us to heaven and heaven to the earth who will reign over all men. House cleaning is putting away the old man because the old man is dead and there is no room for two opposing men in God's spiritual temple is there? :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 

SteveB

Well-known member
It is this king that is bringing us to heaven and heaven to the earth who will reign over all men. House cleaning is putting away the old man because the old man is dead and there is no room for two opposing men in God's spiritual temple is there? :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
I'm not an sda, and from what I've read, and heard so far, Ellen G. White has not given you the truth.
 

e v e

Super Member
Only problem with just saying 144k, according to Revelation, those are from the 12 tribes of Israel and are virgin males, who have not known a woman.

They're not from some nondescript people group.
yes but not the way you think. it means in terms of the false matrix world, this one of mystery babylon... that the 144k sons and daughters, have given up that horrible physical sex. The sons are the ones mentioned there, being the covering, but the daughters are not left out since the male and female are one, as made by God and do not have to be Joined. The being joined is false scenario of this world... where in heaven, the two are one.

so it doesn't mean they are eunuchs.

things are backwards here... in eden female is the inside and core of male... and he her covering.. no eunuch about it.
but here, females are in the wrong position and try to rule male... that is the problem also with female preachers. the form of unity on this earth of the fallen angels is by their horrible pha**** construct.

it is the male who is the covering and protects the female, and that is the structure of the temple in the OT as well, based on that concept. But here everywhere you look female is trying to be a male, and give the context and marriage a legalization of rape.

I'm not saying female or male either of them should be higher...in eden neither is higher or lower...but the point is that in God's version, He and His spirit cover and protect the sons and the sons cover the female.

in this world... everything is backwards.
 

e v e

Super Member
You do under stand that the book of Revelation which is the unveiling of Christ in us is mainly figurative?



God bless you,

SeventhDay
it's only figurative to you because you do not know the context of rev and of prophets, which is literal. the problem is that sometimes it literally describes the other world and is not describing old ishral. and, sometimes it literally describes old ishral. knowing when it is transcending this world and discussing events after or before eden fell, or that will happen soon, now, is part of the key to reading those....
 

SeventhDay

Active member
I'm not an sda, and from what I've read, and heard so far, Ellen G. White has not given you the truth.
I am not SDA but do you understand my statements. If you do not you can ask questions or I can just explain what I mean. I will give you some scriptures that might help you to understand. If you do not with God's help I will give you an explanation.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Now, this has to do with house cleaning as you have aptly mentioned. 😀

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 

SeventhDay

Active member
it's only figurative to you because you do not know the context of rev and of prophets, which is literal. the problem is that sometimes it literally describes the other world and is not describing old ishral. and, sometimes it literally describes old ishral. knowing when it is transcending this world and discussing events after or before eden fell, or that will happen soon, now, is part of the key to reading those....
The first chapter of the book of revelation shows figurative signs and interprets some of them thus what I stated is true. 😀

SeventhDay
 

e v e

Super Member
Only problem with just saying 144k, according to Revelation, those are from the 12 tribes of Israel and are virgin males, who have not known a woman.

They're not from some nondescript people group.
the twelve tribes are not determined because they are jewish today. He is talking about Hebrew souls, from Adam - adam souls... Also, it is not only males, but legally the males will help Him bring many to Him during trib, and also will help him restore Eden (new jerusalem/ new eden.) the 144k sons are literal sons..
 

e v e

Super Member
The first chapter of the book of revelation shows figurative signs and interprets some of them thus what I stated is true. 😀

SeventhDay
but if you miss the literal aspects (including those aspects describing the other world where many of the events happen), then all your figurative signs are off. He talks to us in cohesive whole, clear words and not in a mishmash of figurative signs.
 

SeventhDay

Active member
but if you miss the literal aspects (including those aspects describing the other world where many of the events happen), then all your figurative signs are off. He talks to us in cohesive whole, clear words and not in a mishmash of figurative signs.
We see only what the Holy Spirit shows us no more and no less! :)

SeventhDay
 
Ok. May as well get this started.

According to Colossians 1:15, Jesus is the firstborn

Col 1:15 WEB He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

From the nwt

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;

In the Greek the word used for firstborn is prototokos.

My question is

Since when does firstborn mean first created?
This sounds like the "PRWTOTOKOS (πρωτότοκος) vs PRWTOKTISTOS (πρωτόκτιστος)" argument, which is not really important once one realizes that those who are "born" are also "created".
 

SeventhDay

Active member
This sounds like the "PRWTOTOKOS (πρωτότοκος) vs PRWTOKTISTOS (πρωτόκτιστος)" argument, which is not really important once one realizes that those who are "born" are also "created".
I believe first born of creation has to do with Jesus resurrection and being a quickening spirit. However, the son of man is a creation but a natural creation but Jesus resurrection is a spiritual creation. When we look at Jesus we ought to See Father and Son in relationship as God's oneness manifest in a flesh body as a result of the Word made flesh. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 

e v e

Super Member
I believe first born of creation has to do with Jesus resurrection and being a quickening spirit. However, the son of man is a creation but a natural creation but Jesus resurrection is a spiritual creation. When we look at Jesus we ought to See Father and Son in relationship as God's oneness manifest in a flesh body as a result of the Word made flesh. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
man was made in eden and not in a flesh body. the woes natural in eden is not the same as here. different world, different physicality, different realm and nature altogether.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
This sounds like the "PRWTOTOKOS (πρωτότοκος) vs PRWTOKTISTOS (πρωτόκτιστος)" argument, which is not really important once one realizes that those who are "born" are also "created".

Ok. I did a search for πρωτόκτιστος
It doesn't exist in the entire Greek bible (I have several Greek translations). Old or new testaments.
So..... do you want to try this again?


In the interim....

Created by whom?


Not the Father or the mother.

He was begotten.

To beget, you're passing your nature, and attributes to the child who is begotten.

So, God the Father passes his nature, as God, to the Son.
 
Ok. I did a search for πρωτόκτιστος
It doesn't exist in the entire Greek bible (I have several Greek translations). Old or new testaments.
So..... do you want to try this again?
I never said πρωτόκτιστος was in the Bible. However, you seem to imply that since there is a Greek word for "first created"(πρωτόκτιστος), and if that is what the writer meant, he would've used PRWTOKTISTOS. (Nevertheless, it wouldn't make any sense for the writer of Colossians to say PRWTOKTISTOS PASHS KTISEWS.)
In the interim....

Created by whom?


Not the Father or the mother.
Fathers and mothers "create" (or "bring into existence") their children. Likewise, God brought His son into existence.
He was begotten.

To beget, you're passing your nature, and attributes to the child who is begotten.

So, God the Father passes his nature, as God, to the Son.
God is not a nature. God is a Being(, ie, Genesis 1).
 
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