"come to know Him"--and obeying the commandments

Magdalena

Well-known member
Again--that only connects belief and works, as integral components to one another.



Regardless of why one claims they do it---it still connects belief and works as being integral. Why one does it is another factor.



That claim has been made on a number of occasions here--and I have responded with the same request, IE--please list what is found in the Biblical NT--which isn't found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go?

So far--crickets.

Romans 6:16---King James Version
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
We have answered that many times. You refuse to acknowledge the responses. You just continue to spam the same things over and over.
 

Yitoz

Active member
We have answered that many times. You refuse to acknowledge the responses. You just continue to spam the same things over and over.
I have no problems with attempting to keep the commandments of Jesus, but if I fall down, then I do as instructed in 1 John 1:6-10. What I don't accept as binding are many of the non-biblical false teachings, laws, ordinances and commandments of Joseph Smith and the SLC sect. IMO, many of the mormon temple rites are demonic, at least many of the ones that I took part back in in 1976 before the major changes.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
We’ve said all along that those who truly believe in Christ try to follow His example by the way they live. But we do it out of love and gratitude. Not to earn anything.

And there’s a huge difference between following what Christ said and obeying Mormon requirements for earning salvation and exaltation.

We’ve said all along that those who truly believe in Christ try to follow His example by the way they live. But we do it out of love and gratitude. Not to earn anything.

And there’s a huge difference between following what Christ said and obeying Mormon requirements for earning salvation and exaltation.
Exactly! The answer is here:

"But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in GOD."

"Wrought in God." Which means they are done IN faith. They are done IN salvation, not FOR salvation.

We come to the light by grace through faith in Christ our Lord.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
I have no problems with attempting to keep the commandments of Jesus, but if I fall down, then I do as instructed in 1 John 1:6-10. What I don't accept as binding are many of the non-biblical false teachings, laws, ordinances and commandments of Joseph Smith and the SLC sect. IMO, many of the mormon temple rites are demonic, at least many of the ones that I took part back in in 1976 before the major changes.
I agree. Christ gave us two commandments, and they both have to do with love and compassion.

Like you, I participated in the mormon temple rituals that they believe are essential to everyone’s salvation and exaltation. The death oaths, signs, symbols and penalties were evil. And satan still appears there, threatening them into obedience. Why would he want them to be obedient to mormonism?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
dberrie2020 said: That claim has been made on a number of occasions here--and I have responded with the same request, IE--please list what is found in the Biblical NT--which isn't found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go?

So far--crickets.

We have answered that many times. You refuse to acknowledge the responses. You just continue to spam the same things over and over.

More crickets. No answers but "We have already answered that...".
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Exactly! The answer is here:

"But he that doeth truth cometh to the light,......

That's not a compatible doctrine of those who claim one can't do truth until they are saved.

But thank you for that scripture. It fits LDS theology well.
 

Yitoz

Active member
More crickets. No answers but "We have already answered that...".
That's a deceptive question in that what should be asked is what are the teachings of the SLC sect that are in contrast to what is taught in the bible (or the book of mormon)? The answers to that question indicates that the LDS sect is a heterodox group that has added requirements to the simplicity of the Gospel of Jesus that neither He nor any of the apostles taught historically.

Never were many of the important mormon doctrines taught before Joseph came along. The mormon temple rites simply don't exist in the primitive Christian church, nor can they be found in either the histories of the eastern or western divisions of the catholic movements. Nothing was ever restored, because none of the temple rites were ever practiced in orthodox Christianity. Living a clean and wholesome life may only be due to one being 'religious,' which in and of itself is not bad for society, but would also justify such groups as JWs, or other deist religions as well as mormonism. You have kept all the 'commandments;' you have done well, but is there anything that you still lack? When I was a mormon, I realized that the LDS sect taught a false godhead; a false father, mother, son, and holy ghost, so what I lacked was a relationship with the true Godhead and the real Jesus/Yeshua. Muslims have a god called allah, but that is also a false deity, just as the godhead taught by mormonism is false. So, as a mormon elder, I lacked the true Godhead, especially the true Savior Jesus/Yeshua. Just my 2 cents!
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
Who has claimed otherwise? How are you relating that to obeying the commandments?

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Oh, you must have forgotten that I've studied Mormonism for almost 60 years having been one myself. I've also told you that non-Christians don't keep His commandments. They aren't His sheep. They follow false prophets and teachers, they follow a strange gospel that is accursed, they criticize all non-Mormon churches which they say are of the devil. They teach that specific blessings are given to those who obey Mormonism.

I agree with 1 John2:3-4. Only true Christians can obey Christ ---- we recognize them by their fruits. Liars are not Christians because Christians have become speakers of truth. False prophets are liars who heap non-biblical requirements on their followers.
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
That's not a compatible doctrine of those who claim one can't do truth until they are saved.

But thank you for that scripture. It fits LDS theology we

We can't be sanctified and glorified until after we are saved. Non-believers are dead in their trespasses and sins.

Ephesians 2

1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
That's a deceptive question in that what should be asked is what are the teachings of the SLC sect that are in contrast to what is taught in the bible

My question remains the same--what does one find which is found in the Biblical NT--which isn't found in the LDS church? There is nothing deceptive about that--and no one has answered it--crickets.

For the critics here to claim the LDS are unbiblical--the question is a valid one. And no one has answered the bell. They make the claims--but then--play the games, when asked to provide some evidence for their claims.

I can list pages of scriptures which defy the theology preached here by the critics--yet--they can't provide any substantial answer for my question?

The answers to that question indicates that the LDS sect is a heterodox group that has added requirements to the simplicity of the Gospel of Jesus that neither He nor any of the apostles taught historically.

How is that any different than the NT apostles and prophets adding numerous doctrines which are not mentioned previously in the OT? Where do we find the gift of the Holy Ghost, repentance and water baptism for the remission of sins--taking the gospel to the Gentiles--as a whole, the sacrament, etc?--in the OT? It's not there. It was new doctrines.

The apostles taught doctrines which were found nowhere in the OT--even doctrines the traditional Jews thought to be blasphemy, and they sought--and did--kill the apostles for what they thought was that blasphemy.

That is the power of God's church--the progression of revelation from the Heavens--to reveal the will of God for that period of time.

Why is it so controversial for the critics here? Because they don't have the heavenly revelations--with witnesses?

Well--the LDS do:


D&C 110
1 "The veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were opened.
2 We saw the Lord standing upon the breastwork of the pulpit, before us; and under his feet was a paved work of pure gold, in color like amber.
3 His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
4 I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father.
5 Behold, your sins are forgiven you; you are clean before me; therefore, lift up your heads and rejoice.
6 Let the hearts of your brethren rejoice, and let the hearts of all my people rejoice, who have, with their might, built this house to my name.
7 For behold, I have accepted this house, and my name shall be here; and I will manifest myself to my people in mercy in this house.
8 Yea, I will appear unto my servants, and speak unto them with mine own voice, if my people will keep my commandments, and do not pollute this holy house.
9 Yea the hearts of thousands and tens of thousands shall greatly rejoice in consequence of the blessings which shall be poured out, and the endowment with which my servants have been endowed in this house.
10 And the fame of this house shall spread to foreign lands; and this is the beginning of the blessing which shall be poured out upon the heads of my people. Even so. Amen.
11 After this vision closed, the heavens were again opened unto us; and Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.
12 After this, Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed all generations after us should be blessed.
13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:
14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi, testifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come
15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse
16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors."
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
We can't be sanctified and glorified until after we are saved. Non-believers are dead in their trespasses and sins.

Ephesians 2

1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

John3:21
"But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in GOD."

How can one "doeth truth"--then--"cometh to the light"?--in your theology?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Oh, you must have forgotten that I've studied Mormonism for almost 60 years having been one myself. I've also told you that non-Christians don't keep His commandments.

Perhaps you could explain for us how your study of Mormonism, or your idea "Non-Christians don't keep his commandments"--somehow changes the testimony of the scriptures:

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

That connects keeping the commandments with eternal life.
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
I most definitely had a revelation from God when he told me to stop following Joseph Smith!

Proverbs 3
5Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
 
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Janice Bower

Well-known member
Perhaps you could explain for us how your study of Mormonism, or your idea "Non-Christians don't keep his commandments"--somehow changes the testimony of the scriptures:

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

That connects keeping the commandments with eternal life.
Eternal life is the gift God gives. We keep His commandments because we are following the Savior. We know that we know Him because we love Him, we love the Bible, we love and forgive others, we were brought to the Son by the Father, we aren't climbing up some other way! How many times are you going to ask people who you think are in the church of the devil? God guides and comforts and blesses us every day.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Oh, you must have forgotten that I've studied Mormonism for almost 60 years having been one myself. I've also told you that non-Christians don't keep His commandments.

Perhaps you could explain for us how your study of Mormonism, or your idea "Non-Christians don't keep his commandments"--somehow changes the testimony of the scriptures:

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

That connects keeping the commandments with eternal life.
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
John3:21
"But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in GOD."

How can one "doeth truth"--then--"cometh to the light"?--in your theology?
John 10
1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 6This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

The word "then" is not in John 3:21. Ye must be born again because non-believers can't see the light and don't follow Jesus.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
1 John 3:7--King James Version
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
A great example of this is Cornelius whose righteousness caught the attention of God. His life as a non-Christian/non-Jew clearly creates a problem for those who subscribe to the total depravity theory.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
I was baptized after God told me to come from among the Mormons. I obeyed.
Good for you.
Here is proof that we are not our own workmanship:
No one has argued that we are "our own workmanship". Straw man
We couldn't quicken ourselves.
We haven't suggested that we could "quicken ourselves" Another straw man.
If we could save ourselves
No one has suggested that we "could save ourselves" Another straw man.
 
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