Coming events...

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Sure, why not? The forehead is a literal place.

They're not nearly as full of symbolism as some people think. Some is obvious, of course, but when it's not, one should think "literal".

They are chocked full of symbolism and even in places where it wouldn't appear that symbolism is being used also.
Sure
Rev. 3:10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
The great trib will be that hour of trial.
First, the great trib was not the test that Jesus was speaking of because they didn't live during the great trib, so for heaven sake use a at least a little common sense here.

He was most likely speaking of a time of persecution by which they would be tested and that he would deliver them through therefore.



That was spoken to that church in particular, so do tell, did any of them get raptured?

You cannot apply that to mean something different than what it meant to that church that Jesus spoke it to dude and if they didn't get raptured out of the test, then neither are you going to be either.

Jesus will come in the air in the rapture; He will call us to Him, not Him coming down to us.That's the rapture, when He will call all the pre-trib saints to Him. Then comes the trib, with trib saints saved by Jesus, who will be here when He returns, seen my all, after the trib, as per Matt. 24:29-31. At that time He will call the trib saints, including the 144K Israelis He earlier had sealed with a mark on their foreheads.

I am not refuting the rapture but only a pre trib rapture that the Bible never speaks of and I gave you ample evidence right from 1 Corinthians 15:22-26 and 51-58 that the rapture will not occur until the last trump when all enemies are finally subdued under the feet of Jesus so that the last enemy of death can also be subdued under the feet of Jesus.

It is only then, that no more of God's people will have to suffer physical death, for the reason why we die is because of the enemy of sin dude and that is what all enemies including sin within the believer will have to be put under the feet of Jesus before the rapture can take place.


Remember, that same Paul also wrote in 1 Thess. 5:2-3 that "we shall be caught up together...in the clouds, then "sudden destruction comes upon THEM." (Not us!)

You are speaking of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and that doesn't remove what Paul added in 1 Corinthians 15:22-26 that he didn't include in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

Therefore, both of these texts together have to be considered in order to see the truth about this and especially Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 15:22-26 and 51-58.

What will happen, will happen. Que sera, sera. Nothing we can do to change it or escape it, but we can escape the BAD things by coming to Jesus NOW, calling on His name, asking Him to forgive our sins & save us from their penalty. "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Acts 2:21)
I am afraid that it isn't that cut and dry however, for if you have been led astray by any kind of false teaching at all, you will not be able to endure what is going to take place.

Furthermore, God has ordained that we go through it to separate those who are not right with him from them who are and also to get those who are complacent to repent and return to their first love.

You better start learning the truth about these things because there will be no pre trib rapture to take you out of here when the persecution starts.

For the persecution is the only tribulation that the true church will have to endure, for God will protect all of his saints from his judgments on the wicked and just like he always has before, however many who think they are saved are not saved and they will be subject to the judgments even though they profess faith in God.
 
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One reason ya'll are so mistaken/confused is because you don't see that Paul was predicting for the end of his own era.
Paul was not predicting about OUR era. ONLY the Revelation reveals the 'end time' of OUR era.
Have a nice day. JP
 

robycop3

Well-known member
They are chocked full of symbolism and even in places where it wouldn't appear that symbolism is being used also.
No, not nearly as much as you believe. A mark of a cult or a pusher of false doctrines is to "symbolize" Scriptures that are NOT symbolic, so as to make them fit their agendas.
First, the great trib was not the test that Jesus was speaking of because they didn't live during the great trib, so for heaven sake use a at least a little common sense here.

He was most likely speaking of a time of persecution by which they would be tested and that he would deliver them through therefore.
That was spoken to that church in particular, so do tell, did any of them get raptured?

You cannot apply that to mean something different than what it meant to that church that Jesus spoke it to dude and if they didn't get raptured out of the test, then neither are you going to be either.
Yes, the great trib WILL be that test. Now, YOU please use some common sense. There was NO trial that came upon the WHOLE WORLD in the 1st 2 centuries AD. Study any world history book. And, unlike the Jews who said "the whole world has gone after Him", when JESUS said "the whole world", that's what H
e meant ! He was not one to exaggerate such things.

I am not refuting the rapture but only a pre trib rapture that the Bible never speaks of and I gave you ample evidence right from 1 Corinthians 15:22-26 and 51-58 that the rapture will not occur until the last trump when all enemies are finally subdued under the feet of Jesus so that the last enemy of death can also be subdued under the feet of Jesus.

It is only then, that no more of God's people will have to suffer physical death, for the reason why we die is because of the enemy of sin dude and that is what all enemies including sin within the believer will have to be put under the feet of Jesus before the rapture can take place.
That'll be the events of Jesus' return to earth. He does not "touch down" on earth for the rapture; He calls us to Him in the sky.
You are speaking of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and that doesn't remove what Paul added in 1 Corinthians 15:22-26 that he didn't include in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.
Cant'cha read ? I wrote of 1 Thess. 5:2-3.
Therefore, both of these texts together have to be considered in order to see the truth about this and especially Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 15:22-26 and 51-58.
The rapture is NOT Jesus' physical return to earth, in which He destroys the antichrist's army with the power of His spoken words, casts the AC & FP alive into the LOF, & takes over the rule of earth from David's throne.
I am afraid that it isn't that cut and dry however, for if you have been led astray by any kind of false teaching at all, you will not be able to endure what is going to take place.

Furthermore, God has ordained that we go through it to separate those who are not right with him from them who are and also to get those who are complacent to repent and return to their first love.

You better start learning the truth about these things because there will be no pre trib rapture to take you out of here when the persecution starts.

For the persecution is the only tribulation that the true church will have to endure, for God will protect all of his saints from his judgments on the wicked and just like he always has before, however many who think they are saved are not saved and they will be subject to the judgments even though they profess faith in God.
I believe YOU have been led astray. The eschatological prophecies will be fulfilled EXACTLY, TO-THE-LETTER. The rapture will occur shortly after the AC comes to power, right before he issues the marka the beast.
 

robycop3

Well-known member
View attachment 365

One reason ya'll are so mistaken/confused is because you don't see that Paul was predicting for the end of his own era.
Paul was not predicting about OUR era. ONLY the Revelation reveals the 'end time' of OUR era.
Have a nice day. JP
No, Jesus did NOT return around 70 AD. Some of them saw Him "coming in His kingdom" in His transfiguration. And "this generation" is the one that'll see the eschatological events begin. Jesus mentioned onlt ONE more return to earth, in the same manner as He left, and He will be SEEN BY ALL in that return; it'll be in great power & glory, as He said. In fact, He warned against rumors of a secret return !
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
No, not nearly as much as you believe. A mark of a cult or a pusher of false doctrines is to "symbolize" Scriptures that are NOT symbolic, so as to make them fit their agendas.

Who made that one up, you or those who are teaching you?
Yes, the great trib WILL be that test. Now, YOU please use some common sense. There was NO trial that came upon the WHOLE WORLD in the 1st 2 centuries AD. Study any world history book. And, unlike the Jews who said "the whole world has gone after Him", when JESUS said "the whole world", that's what H
e meant ! He was not one to exaggerate such things.
He was also not one to tell the believers of a church who would never live at the time of the last days great tribulation that they would be kept from it either.

For that would have been quite ridiculous to say the least and those believers that it was written to didn't live at the time of the great tribulation.

The mark of someone whose false teachings has taken away their ability to think soundly is when they fail to see the facts about what I just got through saying.


That'll be the events of Jesus' return to earth. He does not "touch down" on earth for the rapture; He calls us to Him in the sky.

Cant'cha read ? I wrote of 1 Thess. 5:2-3.

The rapture is NOT Jesus' physical return to earth, in which He destroys the antichrist's army with the power of His spoken words, casts the AC & FP alive into the LOF, & takes over the rule of earth from David's throne.


I believe YOU have been led astray. The eschatological prophecies will be fulfilled EXACTLY, TO-THE-LETTER. The rapture will occur shortly after the AC comes to power, right before he issues the marka the beast.
Sorry but the Bible is clear from Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 15:22-26 + 51-58, that the rapture will only happen after God through Christ Jesus has totally destroyed all of his other enemies from the earth first and then and only then shall that last enemy of Christ and the church of death also be destroyed.

Therefore the Christians will be the last humans to remain alive on this earth after God sends his judgments on the Great Harlot false Church and the wicked and immediately after that has been accomplished and all of his enemies are put under his feet.

That is when the last enemy of death will also be put under the feet of Jesus and the dead will be resurrected and those believers who are still alive will be caught up with them to meet the Lord in the air.

Another false teaching that your apostate churches believe is that the 1000 years of Revelation 20 is speaking of another 1000 literal years of a kingdom over mortal Jews who all through this age have rejected the Kingdom that Jesus already established at his first coming.

This can also be easily proven false by 1 Corinthians 15:22-26 and also by Paul's words in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4 and Peter's words in 2 Peter 3:10-12.

The day of the Lord when Jesus comes as a thief in the night has to main objectives, the destruction of the wicked and the resurrection and rapture of the saints to be delivered up unto God, even the Father and as per 1 Corinthians 15:24.

Now pay close attention, for Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4, explains how the day of the Lord as a thief in the night will begin with sudden and unexpected destruction that all those who are not believers will not escape from but Peter in 2 Peter 3:10-12, reveals how it will end, with this present heaven and earth passing away with a great noise and by fire.


Now then, suppose you tell me how an extra to this present age 1000 literal year Kingdom of peace and safety over mortal Jews fits into how Paul says the day of the Lord as thief in the night will begin and how Peter in 2 Peter 3:10-12 says that it will end?

For it will be destruction from the beginning to the end for those who were not saved when it began and it will only end after this present heaven and earth is also purged by fire.


So tell me then, where will your literal 1000 years Kingdom of peace and safety for the Jews who all through this age rejected Jesus and his Kingdom take place and how would it fit into what these passages reveal about the day of the Lord that comes as a thief in the night?
 
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robycop3

Well-known member
Who made that one up, you or those who are teaching you?


I discovered it myself, through many years of studying cults.
He was also not one to tell the believers of a church who would never live at the time of the last days great tribulation that they would be kept from it either.

For that would have been quite ridiculous to say the least and those believers that it was written to didn't live at the time of the great tribulation.

The mark of someone whose false teachings has taken away their ability to think soundly is when they fail to see the facts about what I just got through saying.
OK, then, please tell us when a great trial or test fell upon the whole earth while that church existed. BTW, a Christian church has existed for a long time, & still exists in Alajehir, Turkey, which was the old city of Philadelphia. It's an island of Christians in a sea of Moslems, but they've "peacefully co-existed" for many years.
Sorry but the Bible is clear from Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 15:22-26 + 51-58, that the rapture will only happen after God through Christ Jesus has totally destroyed all of his other enemies from the earth first and then and only then shall that last enemy of Christ and the church of death also be destroyed.

Therefore the Christians will be the last humans to remain alive on this earth after God sends his judgments on the Great Harlot false Church and the wicked and immediately after that has been accomplished and all of his enemies are put under his feet.

That is when the last enemy of death will also be put under the feet of Jesus and the dead will be resurrected and those believers who are still alive will be caught up with them to meet the Lord in the air.
Newp! The dead saints will be resurrected immediately before those still alive will be called up in the rapture, along with the resurrected ones. When Jesus returns, He will call the trib saints, alive & dead alike, to Himself.


Another false teaching that your apostate churches believe is that the 1000 years of Revelation 20 is speaking of another 1000 literal years of a kingdom over mortal Jews who all through this age have rejected the Kingdom that Jesus already established at his first coming.

This can also be easily proven false by 1 Corinthians 15:22-26 and also by Paul's words in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4 and Peter's words in 2 Peter 3:10-12.

The day of the Lord when Jesus comes as a thief in the night has to main objectives, the destruction of the wicked and the resurrection and rapture of the saints to be delivered up unto God, even the Father and as per 1 Corinthians 15:24.

Now pay close attention, for Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4, explains how the day of the Lord as a thief in the night will begin with sudden and unexpected destruction that all those who are not believers will not escape from but Peter in 2 Peter 3:10-12, reveals how it will end, with this present heaven and earth passing away with a great noise and by fire.


Now then, suppose you tell me how an extra to this present age 1000 literal year Kingdom of peace and safety over mortal Jews fits into how Paul says the day of the Lord as thief in the night will begin and how Peter in 2 Peter 3:10-12 says that it will end?

For it will be destruction from the beginning to the end for those who were not saved when it began and it will only end after this present heaven and earth is also purged by fire.
It won't be a kingdom of just Jews; it'll include other Israelis & all other peoples alike. At the millenium's end, Satan will be released to DECEIVE THE NATIONS once more.
So tell me then, where will your literal 1000 years Kingdom of peace and safety for the Jews who all through this age rejected Jesus and his Kingdom take place and how would it fit into what these passages reveal about the day of the Lord that comes as a thief in the night?
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
I discovered it myself, through many years of studying cults.

That is precisely what your problem is however, you are doing your own thinking and reasoning with the scriptures instead of being led by the discernment of the Holy Spirit which was the mind of Christ that the true spiritual believers were led by.

Read 1 Corinthians chapters 1-3 and especially what Paul wrote in chapter 2:13-16.

OK, then, please tell us when a great trial or test fell upon the whole earth while that church existed. BTW, a Christian church has existed for a long time, & still exists in Alajehir, Turkey, which was the old city of Philadelphia. It's an island of Christians in a sea of Moslems, but they've "peacefully co-existed" for many years.
They were kept from the test to commit Apostasy and that John and the other apostles warned of that was already beginning within the churches.

That is what they were kept from, the temptation to fall away from the truth like so many of the other churches were already headed for.

Just read the warnings that Jesus gave to the other churches about this, it is right under your nose in those letters to the seven churches.

He even warned that if they did not repent of their complacency and false teachings, that he would remove their candle stick and allow them to fall into the darkness that was coming.

Newp! The dead saints will be resurrected immediately before those still alive will be called up in the rapture, along with the resurrected ones. When Jesus returns, He will call the trib saints, alive & dead alike, to Himself.

Of course the dead will be raised first but that has nothing to do with what I posted from the scriptures to reveal that you are not understanding these things correctly.

Jesus only returns once and he never spoke of any secret return where all eyes wouldn't see him, that is bogus nonsense and total false doctrine.

When Jesus said "watch and pray, for you know not in what hour your Lord will be coming" he is referring to the fact that in the natural and without the guidance of the Holy Spirit, we cannot know the hour in which the Lord comes and therefore we need to be watching and praying to God for insight about it so that day doesn't over take us as a thief like it will the lost.


He is not saying that Jesus can come back just at any old time but rather that in the natural, we wouldn't know any better about when he would be coming than the lost would and therefore we need to watch for the signs and pray to God to be able to discerning what they are.

Paul makes this very clear in 1 Thessalonians 5:4 "But you brethren are not in darkness that that day should over take you as a thief".

So when Jesus made it sound as though he could return any time, it was to reveal to us that in the natural that is how it would be and therefore we need to watch for the signs and pray so that we get insight from God concerning when it is getting near.


I said all of that because pre tribber's use this as a proof text for their idea that Jesus could come at any time and therefore there has to be two comings of Jesus, one in secret where no one sees him coming and one when every eye will see him, but this is totally false and Jesus never revealed any such thing and neither did Paul either.
It won't be a kingdom of just Jews; it'll include other Israelis & all other peoples alike. At the millenium's end, Satan will be released to DECEIVE THE NATIONS once more.
Sorry but there won't be another Kingdom on this earth for mortals at all after Jesus returns and the Bible is clear on that and I gave you ample evidence for it also in the scriptures I posted.


Your understanding of the 1000 years in Revelations is therefore false.

For when Jesus was asked by the Jews about when the kingdom that they were promised in the OT should come, Jesus answered them in Luke 17:20-37, and told them that the Kingdom of God would not be coming visibly but that it was already in their very midst present tense.


Therefore their Kingdom is present tense and either they will accept the Kingdom and their King Jesus in this age, or they will perish with the wicked, for today is the day of salvation for them and all peoples of the earth.

However, if they continue to harden their hearts all the way up to the end of the age and his return as lighting in the sky, they will perish with the rest of the wicked.
 
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robycop3

Well-known member
That is precisely what your problem is however, you are doing your own thinking and reasoning with the scriptures instead of being led by the discernment of the Holy Spirit which was the mind of Christ that the true spiritual believers were led by.

Read 1 Corinthians chapters 1-3 and especially what Paul wrote in chapter 2:13-16.
How do you *KNOW* the Holy Spirit wasn't teaching me ? I did pray for His guidance (& still do) whenever I sat down to study.
They were kept from the test to commit Apostasy and that John and the other apostles warned of that was already beginning within the churches.

That is what they were kept from, the temptation to fall away from the truth like so many of the other churches were already headed for.

Just read the warnings that Jesus gave to the other churches about this, it is right under your nose in those letters to the seven churches.

He even warned that if they did not repent of their complacency and false teachings, that he would remove their candle stick and allow them to fall into the darkness that was coming.
You still haven't dealt with Jesus' words "the whole world". Evidently, you can't.
Of course the dead will be raised first but that has nothing to do with what I posted from the scriptures to reveal that you are not understanding these things correctly.
No, YOU don't understand those Scriptures correctly.
Jesus only returns once and he never spoke of any secret return where all eyes wouldn't see him, that is bogus nonsense and total false doctrine.
And I never said He would; I said the opposite.
When Jesus said "watch and pray, for you know not in what hour your Lord will be coming" he is referring to the fact that in the natural and without the guidance of the Holy Spirit, we cannot know the hour in which the Lord comes and therefore we need to be watching and praying to God for insight about it so that day doesn't over take us as a thief like it will the lost.
That day is the rapture. His return will be immediately after he cuts the great trib short.
He is not saying that Jesus can come back just at any old time but rather that in the natural, we wouldn't know any better about when he would be coming than the lost would and therefore we need to watch for the signs and pray to God to be able to discerning what they are.
And a sign the rapture is very near will be when the antichrist comes to power, when he will seem to be the answer for all the world's problems.
Paul makes this very clear in 1 Thessalonians 5:4 "But you brethren are not in darkness that that day should over take you as a thief".

So when Jesus made it sound as though he could return any time, it was to reveal to us that in the natural that is how it would be and therefore we need to watch for the signs and pray so that we get insight from God concerning when it is getting near.


I said all of that because pre tribber's use this as a proof text for their idea that Jesus could come at any time and therefore there has to be two comings of Jesus, one in secret where no one sees him coming and one when every eye will see him, but this is totally false and Jesus never revealed any such thing and neither did Paul either.
You're quite mixed-up.The rapture won't be Jesus' physical return. It'll be His calling us up to Him. And remember, He is spiritually omnipresent. When He physically returns, He will call the trib saints, including the 144K Israelis, to Him, to be with Him as He reigns from Jerusalem for 1K years.


Sorry but there won't be another Kingdom on this earth for mortals at all after Jesus returns and the Bible is clear on that and I gave you ample evidence for it also in the scriptures I posted.


Your understanding of the 1000 years in Revelations is therefore false.

For when Jesus was asked by the Jews about when the kingdom that they were promised in the OT should come, Jesus answered them in Luke 17:20-37, and told them that the Kingdom of God would not be coming visibly but that it was already in their very midst present tense.


Therefore their Kingdom is present tense and either they will accept the Kingdom and their King Jesus in this age, or they will perish with the wicked, for today is the day of salvation for them and all peoples of the earth.

However, if they continue to harden their hearts all the way up to the end of the age and his return as lighting in the sky, they will perish with the rest of the wicked.
Wow! You're REALLY confused ! So there won't be a 1K rule of the whole world by JESUS ? Let's see what Scripture says: Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Now, who will they be reigning over? Each other ?

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. [/color]

Jesus' kingdom won't be a nation. Nations are made of people, not spirits.

And after that? Rev. 20:13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Now you see why I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. Your horse feathers clashes with Scripture.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member


How do you *KNOW* the Holy Spirit wasn't teaching me ? I did pray for His guidance (& still do) whenever I sat down to study.
Part 1 of my reply



Because I obey 1 John 4:1-4 and I know how to see the fruit of a false prophet who is wearing sheep's clothing because I know the truth of God's word and you are not teaching it.

You still haven't dealt with Jesus' words "the whole world". Evidently, you can't.

Sure I have, for the apostasy was already beginning then and it is getting worse by the day and it is also spreading throughout the world, for the scriptures clearly teach in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 that it would continue right up until the end of the age and Christ return.

For it is the very reason why Jesus will return to start with, because the darkness from the apostasy from the truth will have becomes so bad that God will no longer be about to reach sinners because of the confusion of his word caused by the apostasy.

Jesus actually was prophesying about this when he said these words "I must work while it is yet day (there is still light enough in the world for men to hear the truth), the night comes (darkness of apostasy from the truth) when no man will be able to work (no one will respond any longer to the truth from the true ministers of Christ and God).
No, YOU don't understand those Scriptures correctly.

And I never said He would; I said the opposite.

That day is the rapture. His return will be immediately after he cuts the great trib short.

And a sign the rapture is very near will be when the antichrist comes to power, when he will seem to be the answer for all the world's problems.

Right there in your words above in the bold orange you are contradicting what Paul said about this in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3.

For he very clearly told us that the day of the Lord and our gathering together unto him will not come until the apostasy comes first and then the man of sin and son of perdition arises and is revealed from the midst of the apostasy.


It is clear as a bell what Paul was saying dude, read it again.

So when you asked me how I know that you are not being led by the Spirit of God but are teaching falsely, it is your statement like that, because I know what the word of God teaches about it and you are not teaching what the word of God teaches about it.

You're quite mixed-up.The rapture won't be Jesus' physical return. It'll be His calling us up to Him. And remember, He is spiritually omnipresent. When He physically returns, He will call the trib saints, including the 144K Israelis, to Him, to be with Him as He reigns from Jerusalem for 1K years.

Jesus will not physically return anyway, but he will return in the sky just like lightning that shines from one end of heaven to the other and just like he said in Luke 20-37 but when he does come, all eyes will see him coming and the Bible never teaches that he is coming more than once either.

So you can tell me that I am mixed up until you are blue in the face but you will soon enough find out who is really mixed up and if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't want that day to come to quickly either.

Wow! You're REALLY confused ! So there won't be a 1K rule of the whole world by JESUS ? Let's see what Scripture says: Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

The 1000 years spoken of in Revelation 20 is symbolic for this present age, the first resurrection refers to the resurrection of Jesus himself and by which all of the saints that live in this age are made alive through Jesus spirit through his resurrection.

In this age symbolized by 1000 years, the saints are given judgment in their favor with God through Christ dying for their sins and in this age symbolized by 1000 years we will also reign with Christ but not over other people but over the pull and influence of the world, the flesh and the Devil and also over sin.

In this age symbolized by 1000 years we all will live our life span and then also die physically if we are not alive at Christ's return and in this ages symbolized by 1000 years many of us will also die as martyrs for Jesus


Now let's look at what Peter says about this age in 2 Peter 3:8-10.



2 Peter 3:8-10 New International Version

8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

What age is Peter speaking of here in the above verses dude?

He is speaking of this age of mercy and grace and what he is revealing, is that God is not scheduling things according to created time like we would or think that he should or is.

Instead, he is looking at the hearts of men and women to see whether or not they can still be turned from sin to repentance and faith.

Therefore as long as they can, he will hold off from sending Jesus to fulfill his promise to us of his coming.

Nevertheless, this passage reveals for us that the 1000 years in Revelation is symbolic of this age and whether you like it or can accept it or not, the scriptures prove what the scriptures mean.



 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member




Wow! You're REALLY confused ! So there won't be a 1K rule of the whole world by JESUS ? Let's see what Scripture says: Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Part 2 of my reply


The 1000 years spoken of in Revelation 20 is symbolic for this present age, the first resurrection refers to the resurrection of Jesus himself and by which all of the saints that live in this age are made alive through Jesus spirit through his resurrection.


In this age symbolized by 1000 years, the saints are given judgment in their favor with God through Christ dying for their sins and in this age symbolized by 1000 years we will also reign with Christ but not over other people but over the pull and influence of the world, the flesh and the Devil and also over sin.


In this age symbolized by 1000 years we all will live our life span and then also die physically if we are not alive at Christ's return and in this ages symbolized by 1000 years many of us will also die as martyrs for Jesus


Now let's look at what Peter says about this age in 2 Peter 3:8-10.


2 Peter 3:8-10 New International Version


8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.



What age is Peter speaking of here in the above verses dude?


He is speaking of this age of mercy and grace and what he is revealing, is that God is not scheduling things according to created time like we would or think that he should or is.


Instead, he is looking at the hearts of men and women to see whether or not they can still be turned from sin to repentance and faith.


Therefore as long as they can, he will hold off from sending Jesus to fulfill his promise to us of his coming.


Nevertheless, this passage reveals for us that 1000 years in Revelation is symbolic of this age and whether you like it or can accept it or not, the scriptures prove what the scriptures mean.

Now, who will they be reigning over? Each other ?

Over the world, the flesh and the Devil and temptation and sin and not over other people, it is a statement that refers to the victory of the believer over sin and the influence of sin in the world, and from their flesh and from the Devil and that is what we reign with Christ over in our lives.


7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.
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Satan being bound for the symbolic 1000 years is also symbolic, or are you so simple that you really believe that he as a spirit being is going to be put into literal chains and locked up in the abyss?


Notice, that John gives us the purpose for his being bound and it is that he no longer can deceive the nations from the truth of the gospel like he did in the OT before Christ and when only the Jews had the word of God.


So then when was he bound from deceiving the nations?


When Jesus died on that cross the scriptures tell us that he spoiled principalities and powers and made a show of them openly and that he defeated Satan so that the gospel could go out to the nations and all men could hear it and be saved.


However the apostasy within the churches will eventually allow Satan to once again have the freedom to deceive the nations because while they are going out as missionaries with the gospel message, they are also preach much false doctrine along with it and causing great confusion in the world concerning the real truth of God's word.


That is why Jesus called this apostate Harlot church "Mystery Babylon" because the word "Babylon" means Confusion and what we have now in this Harlot apostate church is many different tongues of false doctrines going out into the world also with the gospel message and which is causing confusion concerning the truth of God's word.


What is happening from this, is that those involved in this church are not believing in the true God or his Christ or the true doctrines and those outside of the church are so turned off by the confusion that they are seeing coming out of that mess that they don't want anything to do with God or Christ because of it and therefore their hearts are growing hard towards God and Christ.



Jesus' kingdom won't be a nation. Nations are made of people, not spirits.

And after that? Rev. 20:13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Now you see why I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. Your horse feathers clashes with Scripture.

Now you see why I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. Your horse feathers clashes with Scripture.


LOL, human spirits are still people and beside this, God did not create man to be a bodiless spirit and 2 Corinthians 5 very clearly reveals this also.

So Jesus is a nation but it is nation of every people group and tongue on the earth and the scriptures also reveal this as well.

1 Peter 2:9 New King James Version

9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;



The resurrection of Revelation 20:13-15 does not include any of the saints at all and John had no need to mention the resurrection of the saints because being they began their resurrection spiritually by being baptized spiritually into the death and resurrection of Jesus.

For their bodily resurrection is guaranteed them because they took part in Christ's resurrection which is the first resurrection that John speaks of.

Therefore, through being baptized spiritually by God into the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus and which guarantees their bodily resurrection John was not led to mention it because it was a done deal for them.


Besides this, there was already one resurrection for the saints as per Matthew 27:51-53 and following right after that of Jesus himself and as Paul mentioned as the first fruits of believers also in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23.
 
No, Jesus did NOT return around 70 AD. Some of them saw Him "coming in His kingdom" in His transfiguration. And "this generation" is the one that'll see the eschatological events begin. Jesus mentioned onlt ONE more return to earth, in the same manner as He left, and He will be SEEN BY ALL in that return; it'll be in great power & glory, as He said. In fact, He warned against rumors of a secret return !
You must think Jesus mis-spoke when he told the hi priest "you will see me return in power'. Nah, it's YOU that mis-speaks.
 

Elchapo

New Member
A simple, short summary of the main coming prophetic events...

Soon, either the beast/antichrist will come to power, or the Jews will build a new temple in Jerusalem. Those events will be close together, I believe. Then will come the rapture, just before or just after the beast commits the "abomination of desolation" in the new temple. Then comes the great trib, lasting a little over 3 years. Immediately after the great trib, Jesus will return, as He said in Matt. 24.
I agree!
 

robycop3

Well-known member
Part 1 of my reply



Because I obey 1 John 4:1-4 and I know how to see the fruit of a false prophet who is wearing sheep's clothing because I know the truth of God's word and you are not teaching it
If you did, you wouldn't advocate an incorrect teaching.
Sure I have, for the apostasy was already beginning then and it is getting worse by the day and it is also spreading throughout the world, for the scriptures clearly teach in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 that it would continue right up until the end of the age and Christ return.

For it is the very reason why Jesus will return to start with, because the darkness from the apostasy from the truth will have becomes so bad that God will no longer be about to reach sinners because of the confusion of his word caused by the apostasy.

Jesus actually was prophesying about this when he said these words "I must work while it is yet day (there is still light enough in the world for men to hear the truth), the night comes (darkness of apostasy from the truth) when no man will be able to work (no one will respond any longer to the truth from the true ministers of Christ and God).
No hour of test/trial has come upon the whole world yet. Learn some history !
Right there in your words above in the bold orange you are contradicting what Paul said about this in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3.

For he very clearly told us that the day of the Lord and our gathering together unto him will not come until the apostasy comes first and then the man of sin and son of perdition arises and is revealed from the midst of the apostasy.

It is clear as a bell what Paul was saying dude, read it again.

So when you asked me how I know that you are not being led by the Spirit of God but are teaching falsely, it is your statement like that, because I know what the word of God teaches about it and you are not teaching what the word of God teaches about it.
CANTCHA READ???????? WHADDYA THINK I WROTE ??????????
Jesus will not physically return anyway, but he will return in the sky just like lightning that shines from one end of heaven to the other and just like he said in Luke 20-37 but when he does come, all eyes will see him coming and the Bible never teaches that he is coming more than once either.

So you can tell me that I am mixed up until you are blue in the face but you will soon enough find out who is really mixed up and if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't want that day to come to quickly either.
Horse feathers! The angels present at Jesus' ascent said He'd return in like manner. He was physical when He left; He will be physical when He returns. He's gonna land on the Mt. of Olives, from which He ascended; the mt. will then split in half.



The 1000 years spoken of in Revelation 20 is symbolic for this present age, the first resurrection refers to the resurrection of Jesus himself and by which all of the saints that live in this age are made alive through Jesus spirit through his resurrection.

In this age symbolized by 1000 years, the saints are given judgment in their favor with God through Christ dying for their sins and in this age symbolized by 1000 years we will also reign with Christ but not over other people but over the pull and influence of the world, the flesh and the Devil and also over sin.

In this age symbolized by 1000 years we all will live our life span and then also die physically if we are not alive at Christ's return and in this ages symbolized by 1000 years many of us will also die as martyrs for Jesus


Now let's look at what Peter says about this age in 2 Peter 3:8-10.



2 Peter 3:8-10 New International Version

8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

What age is Peter speaking of here in the above verses dude?

He is speaking of this age of mercy and grace and what he is revealing, is that God is not scheduling things according to created time like we would or think that he should or is.

Instead, he is looking at the hearts of men and women to see whether or not they can still be turned from sin to repentance and faith.

Therefore as long as they can, he will hold off from sending Jesus to fulfill his promise to us of his coming.

Nevertheless, this passage reveals for us that the 1000 years in Revelation is symbolic of this age and whether you like it or can accept it or not, the scriptures prove what the scriptures mean.
You simply don't know what you're talking about. The millenium is LITERAL; there'll still be mortal people , of whom Satan shall deceive many when the millenium is up. Whatever cult you're in has brainwashed you well.
 

robycop3

Well-known member
Part 2 of my reply


The 1000 years spoken of in Revelation 20 is symbolic for this present age, the first resurrection refers to the resurrection of Jesus himself and by which all of the saints that live in this age are made alive through Jesus spirit through his resurrection.


In this age symbolized by 1000 years, the saints are given judgment in their favor with God through Christ dying for their sins and in this age symbolized by 1000 years we will also reign with Christ but not over other people but over the pull and influence of the world, the flesh and the Devil and also over sin.


In this age symbolized by 1000 years we all will live our life span and then also die physically if we are not alive at Christ's return and in this ages symbolized by 1000 years many of us will also die as martyrs for Jesus



Now let's look at what Peter says about this age in 2 Peter 3:8-10.


2 Peter 3:8-10 New International Version


8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.



What age is Peter speaking of here in the above verses dude?


He is speaking of this age of mercy and grace and what he is revealing, is that God is not scheduling things according to created time like we would or think that he should or is.


Instead, he is looking at the hearts of men and women to see whether or not they can still be turned from sin to repentance and faith.


Therefore as long as they can, he will hold off from sending Jesus to fulfill his promise to us of his coming.



Nevertheless, this passage reveals for us that 1000 years in Revelation is symbolic of this age and whether you like it or can accept it or not, the scriptures prove what the scriptures mean.
Answered in previous post.
Over the world, the flesh and the Devil and temptation and sin and not over other people, it is a statement that refers to the victory of the believer over sin and the influence of sin in the world, and from their flesh and from the Devil and that is what we reign with Christ over in our lives.
KOO-koo! KOO-koo!
Satan being bound for the symbolic 1000 years is also symbolic, or are you so simple that you really believe that he as a spirit being is going to be put into literal chains and locked up in the abyss?
OF COURSE I do, as that's what Scripture says. I believe God's word, not your goofy, wrong, interps of it.
Notice, that John gives us the purpose for his being bound and it is that he no longer can deceive the nations from the truth of the gospel like he did in the OT before Christ and when only the Jews had the word of God.


So then when was he bound from deceiving the nations?
He hasn't been thus bound, as is thoroughly-evident from the prevalence of sin in the world today.
When Jesus died on that cross the scriptures tell us that he spoiled principalities and powers and made a show of them openly and that he defeated Satan so that the gospel could go out to the nations and all men could hear it and be saved.


However the apostasy within the churches will eventually allow Satan to once again have the freedom to deceive the nations because while they are going out as missionaries with the gospel message, they are also preach much false doctrine along with it and causing great confusion in the world concerning the real truth of God's word.
Satan never lost that freedom.
That is why Jesus called this apostate Harlot church "Mystery Babylon" because the word "Babylon" means Confusion and what we have now in this Harlot apostate church is many different tongues of false doctrines going out into the world also with the gospel message and which is causing confusion concerning the truth of God's word.


What is happening from this, is that those involved in this church are not believing in the true God or his Christ or the true doctrines and those outside of the church are so turned off by the confusion that they are seeing coming out of that mess that they don't want anything to do with God or Christ because of it and therefore their hearts are growing hard towards God and Christ.
And a lotta that is being caused by quacks like your guru(s). They sure did a number on YOU !
Now you see why I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. Your horse feathers clashes with Scripture.


LOL, human spirits are still people and beside this, God did not create man to be a bodiless spirit and 2 Corinthians 5 very clearly reveals this also.

So Jesus is a nation but it is nation of every people group and tongue on the earth and the scriptures also reveal this as well.

1 Peter 2:9 New King James Version

9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;



The resurrection of Revelation 20:13-15 does not include any of the saints at all and John had no need to mention the resurrection of the saints because being they began their resurrection spiritually by being baptized spiritually into the death and resurrection of Jesus.

For their bodily resurrection is guaranteed them because they took part in Christ's resurrection which is the first resurrection that John speaks of.

Therefore, through being baptized spiritually by God into the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus and which guarantees their bodily resurrection John was not led to mention it because it was a done deal for them.


Besides this, there was already one resurrection for the saints as per Matthew 27:51-53 and following right after that of Jesus himself and as Paul mentioned as the first fruits of believers also in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23.
No, SOME were resurrected at Jesus' death, but HIS was the first PERMANENT resurrection. Lazarus, Jairus' daughter, etc. all died again.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
If you did, you wouldn't advocate an incorrect teaching.

I am not the one with the false teaching on this but instead you are.
No hour of test/trial has come upon the whole world yet. Learn some history !

I don't suppose that you know this, but Paul wrote that the gospel had already gone out into the whole world while he was still alive and in fact he also said that the gospel was preached to every creature under heaven also.

What you fail to understand therefore, is that when the words "the whole world" are used by the inspired writers, it means the whole world that they were aware of at the time and not the whole world that they had no knowledge of.

It means within their range of existence therefore, beside this, I believe that the test being spoken of by Jesus is to succumb to the false teachings of apostasy which was even then spreading into their world and would eventually spread into the world that they were unware of also.

What world did they live in therefore?

The world of the Roman Empire dude and the Roman Empire was persecuting Christians at the time also, there were breaks in the persecutions from time to time however and so there may have been a break when John wrote this from Jesus unto them.

But once again, I believe he is speaking of the apostasy like I said, and guess what?

It has already come into all the world also, for the apostasy is right now present tense and growing worse and worse by the hour and the fact that your churches would support an evil selfish arrogant narcistic autocratic sociopath person like Donald Trump is a good evidence of it also.

CANTCHA READ???????? WHADDYA THINK I WROTE ??????????

Horse feathers! The angels present at Jesus' ascent said He'd return in like manner. He was physical when He left; He will be physical when He returns. He's gonna land on the Mt. of Olives, from which He ascended; the mt. will then split in half.

Read it again dude, the angels only appeared and said this to the disciples when was disappearing from their sight of him in the clouds to enter into heaven, they didn't say this when he was lifted up from the earth therefore but only after he was already in the clouds and then disappeared out of their sight from the clouds period.

Or didn't you read or pay attention to their very words unto the disciples, "why do you men stand here looking up into heaven, the same Jesus whom you saw disappear into heaven shall come in like manor as you have seen him go into heaven"?

Notice, they said this when Jesus was still in their sight up in the clouds but disappearing from the clouds into heaven and that is the way that the angels and also Jesus told us he would return also.

Read Luke 17:20-37 once again, for Jesus warned his disciples that there would be those who would say he has returned to the earth and is here or there and he told them not to go after them, for just as lightning shines from one end of heaven to the other, so would his coming be seen by all men.

For as soon as your apostate churches see that there will be no pre trib rapture to deliver them, because they also believe falsely that Jesus will return to earth and set up another kingdom and which he never told us of, God will allow them a delusion.

For, I believe that the antichrist will provide possibly a televised counterfeit the sign of Jesus' coming in the clouds and then they will be looking for him on the earth and that is when the spirit of antichrist will appear to them as Jesus in a glorified body having returned to the earth and deceive them.


Mark my words on that, for Jesus himself warned of this and it will happen also.

You simply don't know what you're talking about. The millenium is LITERAL; there'll still be mortal people , of whom Satan shall deceive many when the millenium is up. Whatever cult you're in has brainwashed you well.
The only thing you know is what you were taught by other men and also receive within your fleshy mind and the men you are listening to are the ones who don't know what they are talking about, because they are evaluating the scriptures by their flesh instead of by the Spirit.

Unfortunately for you, you will soon enough find out who is truly brainwashed but when you do, it will be too late for you to do anything about it unless you start seeking God right now and allow him to show you the truth instead of what men are falsely teaching about it.

Here is a verse from the prophecy of Isaiah 2 that is all about the coming judgment also and here is what God warns those who would be living in our day and age to cease from doing.

Isaiah 2:22 "Cease from trusting in man in whose nostrils is the breath of life, for why should be be esteemed".

The very reason why God warns his true saints about this is because of the apostasy that would be bringing his judgments upon this world that he speaks of just prior to this, so I suggest you read it along with Hebrews 12:25-29 and which is speaking of the same coming judgment of God.
 
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Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Answered in previous post.

Not according to the truth, no you didn't.
KOO-koo! KOO-koo!

Romans 5:17 New King James Version​

17 For if by the one man’s [a]offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

As I said, scripture proves scripture and here Paul even says that the saints reign in this life through the righteous of God in Christ.

OF COURSE I do, as that's what Scripture says. I believe God's word, not your goofy, wrong, interps of it.
You are understanding only what your flesh is revealing from the scriptures and not what the Spirit of God meant them to say or reveals unto those who are coming to God for their understanding like humble little children that know that there is no other way that they will ever understand them otherwise.

Matthew 11:25-27 New International Version

25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

27 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

There are two things you should notice in the above passage, first, God hides his truths from those who will not diligently seek after him for it in a close relationship as with a Father and his child and secondly truth from the scriptures must be revealed by God and not figured out with the human intellect or human reasoning.

Notice Jesus said that he reveals them to little children and which means human men and women who do not presume that just because they think they are born again that they will understand these things automatically and without diligently seeking and asking and waiting upon God for there understanding.

In other words, you will not understand them automatically and by your own intellect but only by diligently seeking and asking and waiting upon God for the answers like humble little children will wait upon their Daddy for everything they need also.


He hasn't been thus bound, as is thoroughly-evident from the prevalence of sin in the world today.

Satan never lost that freedom.

In the OT the Gentile nations were bound from receiving a knowledge of the scriptures because Satan was free to keep it from them but in the NT that has changed, for now he is bound, not literally but bound in the sense that he cannot deceive the nations from knowing the truth of God unless the people want to be deceived.


Sorry, but Revelation 20 is not speaking of Satan being literally bound from deceiving the nations.

What it does mean, is that because the strong man Satan has been defeated within the church through the cross of Christ and therefore now the power of God abides within the church, therefore Satan can no longer hinder the nations from hearing the truth of God.


Notice what Jesus said in Acts 1:7-8 below.

Acts 1:7-8 New International Version

7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

In the OT because the people of Israel had no power as of yet by the Holy Spirit because Christ had not yet come and died for them to receive the Spirit, they failed to be God's witnesses to the nations because Satan had not yet been bound in their lives by the cross of Christ.

However now because Satan has been defeated within God's people by the cross of Christ, Satan is bound from deceiving the nations because they now have the power of God through Christ to be the witnesses to the nations that God has always wanted his people to be and because Satan cannot stop them from it.

But the apostasy is even now presently and once again bringing the church into the bondage from the truth by false doctrines and eventually the nations will be shut off from the truth of God once again because of it.

For it is confusing the truth of God among them nations and causing their hearts to grow hard from the truth because of it.

Remember what Pilot said when Jesus told him, "I have come to bear witness of the truth" and he replied "what is truth", for this was before Christ died and the only witness he had of the God of heaven was from apostate Israel and that is why he didn't know what the truth was and this is happening again with the church also

And a lotta that is being caused by quacks like your guru(s). They sure did a number on YOU !

Hey just to show you how little you really know about me, the only teachings I have ever sat under in my life have been from churches that teach exactly what you believe and I was a part of them for better than 30 years and even taught in the last church I belonged to.

I also had every book that Hal Lindsey wrote at that time and many others who also believed like him and I have never sat under any other teachings of any other groups either and neither to I watch any of them on TV or listen to them on the radio either.


What I have learned now, I learned on my own but there are many in your churches who view many of these things the same way I do and the reason why I know this, is because when arguing with people on this forum, I often would go to the Bible Hub commentaries to see of other scholars saw what I was seeing and many of them do also.

No, SOME were resurrected at Jesus' death, but HIS was the first PERMANENT resurrection. Lazarus, Jairus' daughter, etc. all died again.
No one resurrected back to life after Jesus died and payed for their sins so that they could enter into heaven and then rose again, died again after being resurrected, that is nonsense.

For with Lazarus and Jairus daughter, Jesus had not yet died for their sins and that is why they died again after being raised from the dead.


However that is not the case with those that Matthew wrote about that came out of the graves after Jesus died and rose again in Matthew 27:51-53.

These therefore are the first fruits of men following Christ as the first among them, that Paul speaks of in 1 Corinthians 15:23 and this leaves only one single resurrection for the coming of Jesus and which also proves that your pre trib rapture is bogus nonsense .
 
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robycop3

Well-known member
I am not the one with the false teaching on this but instead you are.
I showed differently. You just refuse to believe it, as it's against your guru's Vedas.
I don't suppose that you know this, but Paul wrote that the gospel had already gone out into the whole world while he was still alive and in fact he also said that the gospel was preached to every creature under heaven also.
Please show us when China, Australia, & North America received the Gospel at that time.
What you fail to understand therefore, is that when the words "the whole world" are used by the inspired writers, it means the whole world that they were aware of at the time and not the whole world that they had no knowledge of.
But when JESUS said "whole world", that's what He meant.
It means within their range of existence therefore, beside this, I believe that the test being spoken of by Jesus is to succumb to the false teachings of apostasy which was even then spreading into their world and would eventually spread into the world that they were unware of also.
You simply believe wrong. The test will be the great trib.
What world did they live in therefore?
Same one you & I are in.
The world of the Roman Empire dude and the Roman Empire was persecuting Christians at the time also, there were breaks in the persecutions from time to time however and so there may have been a break when John wrote this from Jesus unto them.
horse Feathers. The whole world was known to Jesus, & that's what he spoke of. The same Jesus who made the Israeli made the Apache.
But once again, I believe he is speaking of the apostasy like I said, and guess what?
And once again, you believe wrong.
It has already come into all the world also, for the apostasy is right now present tense and growing worse and worse by the hour and the fact that your churches would support an evil selfish arrogant narcistic autocratic sociopath person like Donald Trump is a good evidence of it also.
A 'great falling away' was prophesied.
Read it again dude, the angels only appeared and said this to the disciples when was disappearing from their sight of him in the clouds to enter into heaven, they didn't say this when he was lifted up from the earth therefore but only after he was already in the clouds and then disappeared out of their sight from the clouds period.
HOW IGNORANT ! This is your biggest whopper yet ! OF COURSE the angels were referring to His whole ascension ! That's common sense! If I say "I flew to Atlanta", it's obvious & rode in an aircraft to Atlanta. And you wonder why I don't believe much of what you post !
Or didn't you read or pay attention to their very words unto the disciples, "why do you men stand here looking up into heaven, the same Jesus whom you saw disappear into heaven shall come in like manor as you have seen him go into heaven"?

Notice, they said this when Jesus was still in their sight up in the clouds but disappearing from the clouds into heaven and that is the way that the angels and also Jesus told us he would return also.
The insanity continues !
Read Luke 17:20-37 once again, for Jesus warned his disciples that there would be those who would say he has returned to the earth and is here or there and he told them not to go after them, for just as lightning shines from one end of heaven to the other, so would his coming be seen by all men.
And that'll be His return, not the rapture. That's when He will physically return to earth, not when He calls the saints up to Him.
For as soon as your apostate churches see that there will be no pre trib rapture to deliver them, because they also believe falsely that Jesus will return to earth and set up another kingdom and which he never told us of, God will allow them a delusion.
I just posted the Scriptures that prove this garbage to be garbage.
For, I believe that the antichrist will provide possibly a televised counterfeit the sign of Jesus' coming in the clouds and then they will be looking for him on the earth and that is when the spirit of antichrist will appear to them as Jesus in a glorified body having returned to the earth and deceive them.
That MIGHT be the only true thing you've said in this post, escept that the rapture will have occurred first.
Mark my words on that, for Jesus himself warned of this and it will happen also.

The only thing you know is what you were taught by other men and also receive within your fleshy mind and the men you are listening to are the ones who don't know what they are talking about, because they are evaluating the scriptures by their flesh instead of by the Spirit.
I wasn't taught by anyone but the HOLY SPIRIT. OTOH, your guru is some purveyor of bunk.
Unfortunately for you, you will soon enough find out who is truly brainwashed but when you do, it will be too late for you to do anything about it unless you start seeking God right now and allow him to show you the truth instead of what men are falsely teaching about it.
I have, for years, as I studied His word. Evidently, YOU haven't, as you once again proved above, with your ignorant comments about Jesus' ascension.
Here is a verse from the prophecy of Isaiah 2 that is all about the coming judgment also and here is what God warns those who would be living in our day and age to cease from doing.

Isaiah 2:22 "Cease from trusting in man in whose nostrils is the breath of life, for why should be be esteemed".

The very reason why God warns his true saints about this is because of the apostasy that would be bringing his judgments upon this world that he speaks of just prior to this, so I suggest you read it along with Hebrews 12:25-29 and which is speaking of the same coming judgment of God.
We all know His judgment is coming on all who die lost, and on all who will later take the marka the beast. And that includes you people who invent new meanings for His word to suit your agendas.
 
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