Common Figure of Speech/Colloquial Language?

Gary Mac

Well-known member
For once, just once, I would like to keep a topic on topic. An answer to your question "What difference does it make?" has absolutely nothing to do with being able to provide examples.

And as what is so often the case, any answer I might give could very likely cause the start of a new topic thus derailing this one.
Here is what you posted -- " Do you account for the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language?

Does it really make a difference? Is it conducive to the purpose of Jesus instructions for you to be that person of Christ that God sent Jesus for us to be like?

These technical difficulties presented as in days weeks or months mean noting to God, What matters is for you to be like Him. Why waste time arguing about hours, days months when the focus should be on what Jesus presented that you should be like him?

If you see the need to prove a day then you will find plenty of different opinions and arguments about it -- I just do not see the time wanted for something that doesnt matter at all is all.

Perhaps if you think it is expedient for salvation then explain why.
 

rstrats

Member
Gary Mac,
re: "Here is what you posted -- ' Do you account for the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language?['] Does it really make a difference?"

It does for the purpose of this topic.



re: "Is it conducive to the purpose of Jesus instructions for you to be that person of Christ that God sent Jesus for us to be like?"

That's an issue for a different topic.



re: "These technical difficulties presented as in days weeks or months mean noting to God, What matters is for you to be like Him."

That's an issue for a different topic.



re: "Why waste time arguing about hours, days months ..."

The only argument being made is that if someone says that it was common to say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or nor part of a night time could occur, then they would have to know of actual examples in order to legitimately make that assertion.



re: "...when the focus should be on what Jesus presented that you should be like him?"

Again, an issue for a different topic.



re: "If you see the need to prove a day..."

For the purpose of this topic, I don't.



re: "Perhaps if you think it is expedient for salvation then explain why.

And again, an issue for a different topic.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Gary Mac,
re: "Here is what you posted -- ' Do you account for the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language?['] Does it really make a difference?"

It does for the purpose of this topic.



re: "Is it conducive to the purpose of Jesus instructions for you to be that person of Christ that God sent Jesus for us to be like?"

That's an issue for a different topic.



re: "These technical difficulties presented as in days weeks or months mean noting to God, What matters is for you to be like Him."

That's an issue for a different topic.



re: "Why waste time arguing about hours, days months ..."

The only argument being made is that if someone says that it was common to say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or nor part of a night time could occur, then they would have to know of actual examples in order to legitimately make that assertion.



re: "...when the focus should be on what Jesus presented that you should be like him?"

Again, an issue for a different topic.



re: "If you see the need to prove a day..."

For the purpose of this topic, I don't.



re: "Perhaps if you think it is expedient for salvation then explain why.

And again, an issue for a different topic.
You cant explain why of your own OP can you?
 

rstrats

Member
Gary Mac,
re: "Here is what you posted -- ' Do you account for the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language?['] Does it really make a difference?"

It does for the purpose of this topic.



re: "Is it conducive to the purpose of Jesus instructions for you to be that person of Christ that God sent Jesus for us to be like?"

That's an issue for a different topic.




re: "If you see the need to prove a day..."

For the purpose of this topic, I don't.





re: "Perhaps if you think it is expedient for salvation then explain why.

That would be an issue for a different topic.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Gary Mac,
re: "Here is what you posted -- ' Do you account for the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language?['] Does it really make a difference?"

It does for the purpose of this topic.



re: "Is it conducive to the purpose of Jesus instructions for you to be that person of Christ that God sent Jesus for us to be like?"

That's an issue for a different topic.




re: "If you see the need to prove a day..."

For the purpose of this topic, I don't.





re: "Perhaps if you think it is expedient for salvation then explain why.

That would be an issue for a different topic.
Otherwise you are not willing to discuss your own OP !
 

rstrats

Member
Gary Mac,
re: "Otherwise you are not willing to discuss your own OP !"

The only discussion that would be applicable to this topic would be with regard to whether or not any provided examples were actually examples. Any other discussions should be addressed in a new topic.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Gary Mac,
re: "Otherwise you are not willing to discuss your own OP !"

The only discussion that would be applicable to this topic would be with regard to whether or not any provided examples were actually examples. Any other discussions should be addressed in a new topic.
Why? the question was to your topic.
 

rstrats

Member
Why? the question was to your topic.

The topic is about examples which show that it was common to say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur. An answer to your question "Does it really make a difference? " is irrelevant, i.e., not needed in order to provide examples. Start a new topic if you want to discuss different issues.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
The topic is about examples which show that it was common to say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur. An answer to your question "Does it really make a difference? " is irrelevant, i.e., not needed in order to provide examples. Start a new topic if you want to discuss different issues.
Does it matter? A simple question!
 

kamaeq

Member
kamaeq,
re: "... the crucifixion took place during daylight prior to the beginning of the Sabbath at nightfall, IOW on Friday."

Do you account for the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language?
Correct. The anal obsession with exact time is a strictly Western one and fairly modern (within the last few centuries). If you go overseas, many cultures don't have it and you even see traces of such "sloppiness" in time in attitudes descending from older Western roots. For example, the joke that "manana" (tomorrow) is the busiest day in Spanish cultures.

A similar example would be the people that claim that the Bible teaches a geocentric universe from the language in use, when use of the same phenomenological language by astronomers, astrophysicists and everyone else describe a geocentric universe view. For example, the sun "rises" and "sets", "moves" from east to west, etc.
 

rstrats

Member
kamaeq,
re: "Correct."

So what examples are you using to say that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of night time could occur?
 
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kamaeq

Member
lamaeq,
re: "Correct."

So what examples are you using to say that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of night time could occur?
You can find this trivially in Jewish sources online. "Day" in Hebrew can refer to the period of light during the day or the entire "night and day" cycle used by the Jews. The use of "day and night" was used to clearly denote a "night and day" (full 24 hours, although without clocks this is based on the changing time of the sunset during the seasons). So, Jesus was saying three days (part of the 24 hour cycle), which includes any part of the indicated 24 hour period. So, before sunset on Friday was day one, Saturday (the Sabbath) was day two, and Sunday (which started at sunset on Saturday by our count) was day three.

You are trying to demand, in a wooden literal fashion, that the Bible follow stopwatch quality modern scientific accuracy according to ideal perfect modern Western accuracy. Let us speculate: Say Jesus was crucified on Friday and hurried into a temporary grave before the start of the Sabbath (Saturday) at sunset. At what point does it become "three days and three nights"? Okay, the nights would be (by our count), Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights, but the days would be a tiny bit of Friday (how much? We don't know, certain lack of cell phones and watches back then.), all of Saturday, all of Sunday, but then since all of the Resurrection "action" happened in the early morning (it appears, remember lacking those cell phones and watches required for those TV courtroom style time ticks.), that would mean, using the logic you appear to, that the third "day" didn't happen because that was definitely several hours before the vague time of death on Friday.

I'll go back to Matthew where you got the quote from: But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: (Mat 12:39)

What sign are you seeking? If you are questioning this, if the time Jonah spent in the whale was more or less by even a second from 72 hours, does it make the Bible false? Even if those "days and nights" are adjusted for the variance of the sunrise and sunset for that time of year? Or does that give a bit of leeway?

If this is honestly bothering you and you are a Christian, then I will give some testimony to you; let it go. You will get your answer, but it is not one you need now. I've beat my head against the Bible (speaking metaphorically) seeking understanding many times in my life. I've always gotten the answer when I needed it, not when I wanted it.

The question always revolves around: Do I trust God? Does this tiny bit of the Bible demand an immediate solution or it will cost me my faith? Do I need to agonize over it so? I've learned the answers are Yes, No and Maybe For A Bit (until I figure out it is something to let go of for now).
 

rstrats

Member
And again, that someone needs to be someone who believes the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week, and who think that the "heart of the earth" refers to the tomb or at the earliest to the moment when the Messiah's spirit left His body, and who tries to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying He was employing common figure of speech/colloquial usage of the period, and who can provide examples to support the assertion of commonality.
 
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