Common Figure of Speech/Colloquial Language?

[Josheb]

Nice post…..but no cigar.

Indeed the burial took place right before the “high Sabbath” (the 15th of Nisan) which fell on a Thursday that year. This is easily proved by the death of Herod…..being historically noted.

Which confirms what I posted. He wasn't buried on Friday. So when you say, "Nice post.... but no cigar," and then agree with my post you prove yourself a snarky troll not really interested in conversation.

The mistake is always made by assuming that (Matthew 12:40) refers to the tomb. It refers to His time in the “Heart of the Earth” which is a metaphor…..not an actual, physical location. It began early morning of the 14th when He became subject to the will of mankind after His arrest in the garden.

That is a false dichotomy. The "metaphor" does not exclude the co-existence of the grave. Both can be true simultaneously. And it's not a metaphor; it is an idiom. He know the Messiah had to go to the grave because of prior OT prophesies.

Psalm 88:10-12
Will You perform wonders for the dead? Will the departed spirits rise and praise You? Selah. Will Your lovingkindness be declared in the grave, Your faithfulness in Abaddon? Will Your wonders be made known in the darkness? And Your righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?

Isaiah 53:7-9
He was oppressed and he was afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; like a lamb that is led to slaughter, and like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, so he did not open his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that He was cut off out of the land of the living for the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke was due? His grave was assigned with wicked men, Yet He was with a rich man in His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.

The Hebrew root for both texts is "qeber." (H6913). It means grave. The term used in Isaiah ("qibrow") is "grave," "sepulcher" or "tomb." Not only did he have a grave assigned with the wicked, but he was cut off from the living. The "heart of the earth" and the grave or tomb are not mutually exclusive conditions. Both are simultaneously true.

It would end 72 hours later on the 17th…….early on the Sabbath morning before sunrise when he would be no longer under the command and control of evil mankind.

Are you suggesting the idom "heart of the earth" means or is otherwise synonymous with "under the command and control of evil mankind"? If so, how did you arrive at that interpretation? Please be detailed and specific with your explanation.

All four gospels say He arose on the “First of the Sabbaths” (plural)

No, they do not. The Greek transliterated states, "after the sabbaton it being dawn toward the first of the sabbaton" (Mt. 28:1). In other words, one sabbath is pitted against another chronologically, after one the first of another started. So while your review of the Jewish sabbaths is correct,

in the Greek language which is the first Sabbath in the count of the Omer (Leviticus 23:15). Any first century Hebrew could explain what the “first of the Sabbaths“ meant.

Your summary of the English is not. Young's didn't get it correct. None of them do. It's sad, because in modern times we have a much greater understanding of the Jewish roots in Christendom. There's no reason our translations couldn't say "after the Sabbath... the first day of the Sabbath" and be understood.

........A very good literal Greek New Testament “Young’s Literal” will always translate……”first day of the week” as……” First of the Sabbaths“(plural). Of course this does not agree with the Catholic Church opinion…….but it’s accurate.

I'm not really seeing how your explanation and mine contradict. It appears you're just being argumentative when you could have been affirming. I provided two options, one with a Wednesday Passover, and another with a Thursday Passover. You could have easily affirmed the Wednesday marking and explained why you think that more veracious instead of, "Nice post... but no cigar," especially since your own post is also flawed. I have no problem with a Wednesday mark. I completely agree the Sabbaths in question are not our Saturday, but Sabbaths pertaining to the Jewish religious rituals and lunar calendar.

First of the Sabbaths“ (plural). Of course this does not agree with the Catholic Church opinion…….but it’s accurate.

And I explained how this happened. The RCC made a doctrinal decision away from setting Good Friday to coordinate with the Jewish calendar. Why are you being divisive and contrary when agreement is plainly available? Was this op intended as an unstated rag on RCCism?

….but it’s accurate.

Yes, it is. But it is not well executed.

Psalm 133:1
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is For brothers to live together in unity!

Ephesians 4:29
Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.

 

[Hawkeye]

Which confirms what I posted. He wasn't buried on Friday. So when you say, "Nice post.... but no cigar," and then agree with my post you prove yourself a snarky troll not really interested in conversation.

That is a false dichotomy. The "metaphor" does not exclude the co-existence of the grave. Both can be true simultaneously. And it's not a metaphor; it is an idiom. He know the Messiah had to go to the grave because of prior OT prophesies.

Psalm 88:10-12
Will You perform wonders for the dead? Will the departed spirits rise and praise You? Selah. Will Your lovingkindness be declared in the grave, Your faithfulness in Abaddon? Will Your wonders be made known in the darkness? And Your righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?

Isaiah 53:7-9
He was oppressed and he was afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; like a lamb that is led to slaughter, and like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, so he did not open his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that He was cut off out of the land of the living for the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke was due? His grave was assigned with wicked men, Yet He was with a rich man in His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.

The Hebrew root for both texts is "qeber." (H6913). It means grave. The term used in Isaiah ("qibrow") is "grave," "sepulcher" or "tomb." Not only did he have a grave assigned with the wicked, but he was cut off from the living. The "heart of the earth" and the grave or tomb are not mutually exclusive conditions. Both are simultaneously true.

Are you suggesting the idom "heart of the earth" means or is otherwise synonymous with "under the command and control of evil mankind"? If so, how did you arrive at that interpretation? Please be detailed and specific with your explanation.

No, they do not. The Greek transliterated states, "after the sabbaton it being dawn toward the first of the sabbaton" (Mt. 28:1). In other words, one sabbath is pitted against another chronologically, after one the first of another started. So while your review of the Jewish sabbaths is correct,

Your summary of the English is not. Young's didn't get it correct. None of them do. It's sad, because in modern times we have a much greater understanding of the Jewish roots in Christendom. There's no reason our translations couldn't say "after the Sabbath... the first day of the Sabbath" and be understood.

I'm not really seeing how your explanation and mine contradict. It appears you're just being argumentative when you could have been affirming. I provided two options, one with a Wednesday Passover, and another with a Thursday Passover. You could have easily affirmed the Wednesday marking and explained why you think that more veracious instead of, "Nice post... but no cigar," especially since your own post is also flawed. I have no problem with a Wednesday mark. I completely agree the Sabbaths in question are not our Saturday, but Sabbaths pertaining to the Jewish religious rituals and lunar calendar.

And I explained how this happened. The RCC made a doctrinal decision away from setting Good Friday to coordinate with the Jewish calendar. Why are you being divisive and contrary when agreement is plainly available? Was this op intended as an unstated rag on RCCism?

Yes, it is. But it is not well executed.

Psalm 133:1
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is For brothers to live together in unity!

Ephesians 4:29
Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.

Well, I’m sorry you misconstrued the “ no cigar “ comment. It wasn’t meant to be derogatory but I can see it upset you. It is an “idiom” I frequently use when I don’t totally agree with something…..or someone. I am an avid cigar smoker so it’s close to home……..

I agreed with most of your post except the fact that the resurrection did not occur on a Sunday. If you feel Young’s has incorrectly translated what most of organized Christianity call……”the first day of the week”…..I’ll simply say…..we then can conclude because we’ll never agree ……..and just waste each other’s time.

I always do enjoy reading your posts.

 

[Hawkeye]

Well, I’m sorry you misconstrued the “ no cigar “ comment. It wasn’t meant to be derogatory but I can see it upset you. It is an “idiom” I frequently use when I don’t totally agree with something…..or someone. I am an avid cigar smoker so it’s close to home……..

I agreed with most of your post except the fact that the resurrection did not occur on a Sunday. If you feel Young’s has incorrectly translated what most of organized Christianity call……”the first day of the week”…..I’ll simply say…..we then can conclude because we’ll never agree ……..and just waste each other’s time.

I always do enjoy reading your posts.

After reading through Josheb"s post again I felt somewhat obligated to answer some of his questions which I totally neglected to do.......thinking he probably really didn't want to know. So......to continue;

Young's Literal Translation (Robert Young was also the author of "Young's Analytical Concordance to the Bible") is the premier Literal translation considered by many scholars. Both publications can be found in most theological libraries.

[Matthew 28:1] And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,

[Mark 16:2] and early in the morning of the first of the sabbaths, they come unto the sepulchre, at the rising of the sun,

[Luke 24:1] And on the first of the sabbaths, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bearing the spices they made ready, and certain [others] with them,

[John 20:1] And on the first of the sabbaths, Mary the Magdalene doth come early (there being yet darkness) to the tomb, and she seeth the stone having been taken away out of the tomb,

Young's is not a Transliteration. It is a Translation.

Read the Young's Literal Translation Free Online

Search and read Bible verses using the popular YLT translation. Take notes online, highlight verses and save notes!

biblestudytools.com

HEART OF THE EARTH [Matthew 12:40 (YLT)] for, as Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights, so shall the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

The above passage says nothing about crucifixion, burial or entombment and we know our Savior quite often spoke in parables so [Mark 4:33-34] as not to be completely understood.

[Luke 18:31-33] is the clue.......
And having taken the twelve aside, he said unto them, `Lo, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things shall be completed -- that have been written through the prophets -- to the Son of Man, for he shall be delivered up to the nations, and shall be mocked, and insulted, and spit upon, and having scourged they shall put him to death, and on the third day he shall rise again.

3rd day from what? The disciples did not understand this had anything to do with a burial.....or a tomb.

[Matthew 16:21] From that time began Jesus to shew to his disciples that it is necessary for him to go away to Jerusalem, and to suffer many things from the elders, and chief priests, and scribes, and to be put to death, and the third day to rise.

3rd day from what?

[Matthew 17:22-23]
And while they are living in Galilee, Jesus said to them, `The Son of Man is about to be delivered up to the hands of men, and they shall kill him, and the third day he shall rise,' and they were exceeding sorry.

[Matthew 20:18-19]
`Lo, we go up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man shall be delivered to the chief priests and scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the nations to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify, and the third day he will rise again.'

So far there has been nothing said about a tomb or a burial.

[Mark 8:31]
and began to teach them, that it behoveth the Son of Man to suffer many things, and to be rejected by the elders, and chief priests, and scribes, and to be killed, and after three days to rise again;

3rd day from what?

[Mark 9:31]
for he was teaching his disciples, and he said to them, `The Son of Man is being delivered to the hands of men, and they shall kill him, and having been killed the third day he shall rise,'

3rd day from what?

[Mark 10:33-34]
- `Lo, we go up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man shall be delivered to the chief priests, and to the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the nations, and they shall mock him, and scourge him, and spit on him, and kill him, and the third day he shall rise again.'

Many things are happening during these three days but still no mention of burial or a tomb.

[Luke 9:22]
saying -- `It behoveth the Son of Man to suffer many things, and to be rejected by the elders, and chief priests, and scribes, and to be killed, and the third day to be raised.'

3rd day from what?

[Luke 18:31-33]
And having taken the twelve aside, he said unto them, `Lo, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things shall be completed -- that have been written through the prophets -- to the Son of Man, for he shall be delivered up to the nations, and shall be mocked, and insulted, and spit upon, and having scourged they shall put him to death, and on the third day he shall rise again.'

[Luke 24:20-21]
how also the chief priests and our rulers did deliver him up to a judgment of death, and crucified him, and we were hoping that he it is who is about to redeem Israel, and also with all these things, this third day is passing to-day, since these things happened.

Today is the third day since all these things happened. Not the third day from the burial or the third day from the crucifixion.....but the third day since He was arrested in the garden, spit upon and slapped, bled innocent blood, was scourged and mocked and turned over to the Gentiles. These things all happened early in the morning of the 14th (Passover Preparation Day) and by sundown of that same day He had been crucified at the ninth hour (3 P.M.) when the lambs were being slaughtered in the temple. After He was buried before sundown the High Sabbath of Passover [John 19:31] drew on and Passover meals were being eaten throughout Jerusalem.

72 hours after His ordeal began with the Sanhedrin and ending with the Romans (Nisan 14) He would resurrect early in the morning on the first weekly Sabbath in the count (of seven) to Pentecost (Nisan 17).

Three days and three nights (14/15; 15/16; 16/17)

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

I used to believe in the Wednesday crucifixion and Saturday afternoon resurrection when I was in the Worldwide Church of God back in the 70s and 80s and I fervently believed it. I would argue it with Christians who held to the Sunday resurrection view.

After ten years in that cult, I left and set out on a journey across the country and I had a KJV Bible with me. I studied hard and debated hard but I finally came to the conclusion that the Sunday resurrection was sound.

However, I have no animus toward those who hold to the Wednesday crucifixion. Our salvation is not dependent on getting what day Jesus died right, or getting what day he rose right, we are saved by grace not getting this doctrine right.

I have to go through the archive and read all the posts on this subject so far and get up to date on what has been discovered so far.

 

[Gary Mac]

I used to believe in the Wednesday crucifixion and Saturday afternoon resurrection when I was in the Worldwide Church of God back in the 70s and 80s and I fervently believed it. I would argue it with Christians who held to the Sunday resurrection view.

After ten years in that cult, I left and set out on a journey across the country and I had a KJV Bible with me. I studied hard and debated hard but I finally came to the conclusion that the Sunday resurrection was sound.

However, I have no animus toward those who hold to the Wednesday crucifixion. Our salvation is not dependent on getting what day Jesus died right, or getting what day he rose right, we are saved by grace not getting this doctrine right.

I have to go through the archive and read all the posts on this subject so far and get up to date on what has been discovered so far.

The resurrection occurs the very day that God comes to you and He did in Jesus and pulled him out of that dead state of beliefs that he once taught in the Jewish temples and opened up in him who God is and all of His heaven in that man. Matt 3:16. He does the very same resurrection from that dead mind for Spirit and makes us alive in Him just as He did in Jesus in Matt 3:16.

That is nothing new, Adam was the first to become like Him, not Jesus , Gen 3:22, Abraham did, Moses did, 120 did and all today is lifted from that dead grave for spirit who God has lifted ups up too meet with Him as all of these did. Most rather stay in that dead state of spiritual retirement and cling to the laws of the creeds they are dedicated to instead of letting God renew them into His same image. These will go to a grave never knowing what life is in the Father of it, never received the promise of when you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him. 1 John 3.

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

After reading through Josheb"s post again I felt somewhat obligated to answer some of his questions which I totally neglected to do.......thinking he probably really didn't want to know. So......to continue;

Young's Literal Translation (Robert Young was also the author of "Young's Analytical Concordance to the Bible") is the premier Literal translation considered by many scholars. Both publications can be found in most theological libraries.

[Matthew 28:1] And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,

[Mark 16:2] and early in the morning of the first of the sabbaths, they come unto the sepulchre, at the rising of the sun,

[Luke 24:1] And on the first of the sabbaths, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bearing the spices they made ready, and certain [others] with them,

[John 20:1] And on the first of the sabbaths, Mary the Magdalene doth come early (there being yet darkness) to the tomb, and she seeth the stone having been taken away out of the tomb,

Young's is not a Transliteration. It is a Translation.

Read the Young's Literal Translation Free Online

Search and read Bible verses using the popular YLT translation. Take notes online, highlight verses and save notes!

biblestudytools.com

HEART OF THE EARTH [Matthew 12:40 (YLT)] for, as Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights, so shall the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

The above passage says nothing about crucifixion, burial or entombment and we know our Savior quite often spoke in parables so [Mark 4:33-34] as not to be completely understood.

[Luke 18:31-33] is the clue.......
And having taken the twelve aside, he said unto them, `Lo, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things shall be completed -- that have been written through the prophets -- to the Son of Man, for he shall be delivered up to the nations, and shall be mocked, and insulted, and spit upon, and having scourged they shall put him to death, and on the third day he shall rise again.

3rd day from what? The disciples did not understand this had anything to do with a burial.....or a tomb.

[Matthew 16:21] From that time began Jesus to shew to his disciples that it is necessary for him to go away to Jerusalem, and to suffer many things from the elders, and chief priests, and scribes, and to be put to death, and the third day to rise.

3rd day from what?

[Matthew 17:22-23]
And while they are living in Galilee, Jesus said to them, `The Son of Man is about to be delivered up to the hands of men, and they shall kill him, and the third day he shall rise,' and they were exceeding sorry.

[Matthew 20:18-19]
`Lo, we go up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man shall be delivered to the chief priests and scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the nations to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify, and the third day he will rise again.'

So far there has been nothing said about a tomb or a burial.

[Mark 8:31]
and began to teach them, that it behoveth the Son of Man to suffer many things, and to be rejected by the elders, and chief priests, and scribes, and to be killed, and after three days to rise again;

3rd day from what?

[Mark 9:31]
for he was teaching his disciples, and he said to them, `The Son of Man is being delivered to the hands of men, and they shall kill him, and having been killed the third day he shall rise,'

3rd day from what?

[Mark 10:33-34]
- `Lo, we go up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man shall be delivered to the chief priests, and to the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the nations, and they shall mock him, and scourge him, and spit on him, and kill him, and the third day he shall rise again.'

Many things are happening during these three days but still no mention of burial or a tomb.

[Luke 9:22]
saying -- `It behoveth the Son of Man to suffer many things, and to be rejected by the elders, and chief priests, and scribes, and to be killed, and the third day to be raised.'

3rd day from what?

[Luke 18:31-33]
And having taken the twelve aside, he said unto them, `Lo, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things shall be completed -- that have been written through the prophets -- to the Son of Man, for he shall be delivered up to the nations, and shall be mocked, and insulted, and spit upon, and having scourged they shall put him to death, and on the third day he shall rise again.'

[Luke 24:20-21]
how also the chief priests and our rulers did deliver him up to a judgment of death, and crucified him, and we were hoping that he it is who is about to redeem Israel, and also with all these things, this third day is passing to-day, since these things happened.

Today is the third day since all these things happened. Not the third day from the burial or the third day from the crucifixion.....but the third day since He was arrested in the garden, spit upon and slapped, bled innocent blood, was scourged and mocked and turned over to the Gentiles. These things all happened early in the morning of the 14th (Passover Preparation Day) and by sundown of that same day He had been crucified at the ninth hour (3 P.M.) when the lambs were being slaughtered in the temple. After He was buried before sundown the High Sabbath of Passover [John 19:31] drew on and Passover meals were being eaten throughout Jerusalem.

72 hours after His ordeal began with the Sanhedrin and ending with the Romans (Nisan 14) He would resurrect early in the morning on the first weekly Sabbath in the count (of seven) to Pentecost (Nisan 17).

Three days and three nights (14/15; 15/16; 16/17)

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

I used to believe in the Wednesday Crucifixion and Saturday afternoon Resurrection when I was in the Worldwide Church of God and I used to have debates with Christians who believed in the Sunday resurrection. I even convinced a couple of people that their view was in error.
I have since come to the conclusion the Wednesday crucifixion teaching is a false teaching. A harmless teaching, but still a false teaching. You see, no matter what position a Christian takes on this, a Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday crucifixion, it has no bearing on his salvation. He will still enter heaven and there we will be able to find out from Jesus himself.

Basically, the Wednesday crucifixion or Thursday crucifixion has one fatal flaw. The fact that Nisan 15 is nowhere called a Sabbath in the Scriptures. There were seven annual holy convocations mentioned in Leviticus 23 and only one of them was called a Sabbath. That was the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur). The other six were never called Sabbaths.

The Day of Atonement was called a Sabbath because it, like the weekly Sabbath, allowed NO work. None. The other six annual holy convocations forbade *servile* work only and were never called Sabbaths. All Sabbaths are rest days but not all rest days are Sabbaths. For example, all collies are dogs but not all dogs are collies. New moons were rest days too but they were never called Sabbaths in the Scriptures.

The ancient Jews did not consider Abib 15 a Sabbath. Much later, maybe around the time of the Babylonian Captivity, the Jews began observing Nisan 15 (formerly Abib 15) as a Sabbath. The Babylonians observed every Nisan 15 as a Sabbath so it is likely that the Jews, who observed the fifteenth day of the first month as a holy convocation, adopted the Babylonian method of reckoning Nisan 15 as a Sabbath.

When the Septuagint was translated from Hebrew to Greek in the third century BC the translators made subtle changes to Leviticus 23 that altered the meaning of the Sabbath from the weekly Sabbath in Hebrew to the first day of Unleavened Bread in Greek. I have discussed this in detail elsewhere so I won't go into it here now. Suffice to say, by the time Jesus was walking the earth the Pharisees, which were then in existence, had celebrated this tradition of man for centuries. But it is not biblical. Jesus chided the Pharisees for following the traditions of men and the Nisan 15 Sabbath was one of them. Jesus, being the very person who spoke those words to Moses in Leviticus 23, knew what day the Sabbath was and it is unlikely that he and his disciples recognized the Pharisaical reckoning of the Nisan 15 as a Sabbath.

The Sadducees, who were in a minority in Israel in the first half of the first century CE, did not use the Pharisee reckoning of the annual Sabbaths and believed, correctly, that the Sabbath mentioned in Leviticus 23:11 was the weekly Sabbath and not the first day of Unleavened Bread as the Septuagint claims.

The Sadducees believed the day after the first weekly Sabbath of the Days of Unleavened Bread was the beginning of the 50-day countdown toward Shavuot. The first Sabbath of the seven Sabbath countdown would begin the following Sabbath. The Pharisees did not count the seven Sabbaths, rather, they counted their WEEKS. The Pharisees waved the Omer on the day after their so-called annual Sabbath on Nisan16 and exactly seven weeks later celebrated Shavuot. It doesn't matter what day of the week Nisan 16 fell on, be it on a Thursday or a Friday, they counted seven WEEKS and not seven Sabbaths. The Jews who translated the Septuagint also changed Leviticus 23 so "seven Sabbaths" in Hebrew was translated as "seven Weeks" into Greek.

What is amazing though is even though the Pharisees controlled what day to observe the waving of the Omer, contrary to the Hebrew Scriptures, is that in the year Jesus died, Nisan 15 fell on a Sabbath, which fell right in line with the correct day to observe the first day of Unleavened Bread. It worked out so that both the Pharisaical and the Sadducean methods occurred on the day after the weekly Sabbath, as demanded by Leviticus 23:11.

There is still a great deal I have to say on this subject, but it would take hours to do so. Therefore, I add a link to a lengthy reply I made online to this question. It is long, but it can be read with rest breaks. Printed out, it is about 20 pages long but it goes into great detail and answers many of the questions that arise when people discuss this topic. It is divided into a two-part reply and there are others who posted responses to this issue but all you have to do is to look for the replies made by Saber Truth Tiger.

can Nisan 15 be referred to as "the sabbath"?

6And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. 7On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you sha...

hermeneutics.stackexchange.com

I wish you all the best as you consider the arguments against the Wednesday crucifixion teaching! Take your time in reading it and if you tire, come back later and read some more. Or print it out. It's up to you but I have addressed every objection to my position and should I hear new objections that I have not heard before I will prayerfully consider them.

God Bless!

 

[Gary Mac]

I used to believe in the Wednesday Crucifixion and Saturday afternoon Resurrection when I was in the Worldwide Church of God and I used to have debates with Christians who believed in the Sunday resurrection. I even convinced a couple of people that their view was in error.
I have since come to the conclusion the Wednesday crucifixion teaching is a false teaching. A harmless teaching, but still a false teaching. You see, no matter what position a Christian takes on this, a Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday crucifixion, it has no bearing on his salvation. He will still enter heaven and there we will be able to find out from Jesus himself.

Basically, the Wednesday crucifixion or Thursday crucifixion has one fatal flaw. The fact that Nisan 15 is nowhere called a Sabbath in the Scriptures. There were seven annual holy convocations mentioned in Leviticus 23 and only one of them was called a Sabbath. That was the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur). The other six were never called Sabbaths.

The Day of Atonement was called a Sabbath because it, like the weekly Sabbath, allowed NO work. None. The other six annual holy convocations forbade *servile* work only and were never called Sabbaths. All Sabbaths are rest days but not all rest days are Sabbaths. For example, all collies are dogs but not all dogs are collies. New moons were rest days too but they were never called Sabbaths in the Scriptures.

The ancient Jews did not consider Abib 15 a Sabbath. Much later, maybe around the time of the Babylonian Captivity, the Jews began observing Nisan 15 (formerly Abib 15) as a Sabbath. The Babylonians observed every Nisan 15 as a Sabbath so it is likely that the Jews, who observed the fifteenth day of the first month as a holy convocation, adopted the Babylonian method of reckoning Nisan 15 as a Sabbath.

When the Septuagint was translated from Hebrew to Greek in the third century BC the translators made subtle changes to Leviticus 23 that altered the meaning of the Sabbath from the weekly Sabbath in Hebrew to the first day of Unleavened Bread in Greek. I have discussed this in detail elsewhere so I won't go into it here now. Suffice to say, by the time Jesus was walking the earth the Pharisees, which were then in existence, had celebrated this tradition of man for centuries. But it is not biblical. Jesus chided the Pharisees for following the traditions of men and the Nisan 15 Sabbath was one of them. Jesus, being the very person who spoke those words to Moses in Leviticus 23, knew what day the Sabbath was and it is unlikely that he and his disciples recognized the Pharisaical reckoning of the Nisan 15 as a Sabbath.

The Sadducees, who were in a minority in Israel in the first half of the first century CE, did not use the Pharisee reckoning of the annual Sabbaths and believed, correctly, that the Sabbath mentioned in Leviticus 23:11 was the weekly Sabbath and not the first day of Unleavened Bread as the Septuagint claims.

The Sadducees believed the day after the first weekly Sabbath of the Days of Unleavened Bread was the beginning of the 50-day countdown toward Shavuot. The first Sabbath of the seven Sabbath countdown would begin the following Sabbath. The Pharisees did not count the seven Sabbaths, rather, they counted their WEEKS. The Pharisees waved the Omer on the day after their so-called annual Sabbath on Nisan16 and exactly seven weeks later celebrated Shavuot. It doesn't matter what day of the week Nisan 16 fell on, be it on a Thursday or a Friday, they counted seven WEEKS and not seven Sabbaths. The Jews who translated the Septuagint also changed Leviticus 23 so "seven Sabbaths" in Hebrew was translated as "seven Weeks" into Greek.

What is amazing though is even though the Pharisees controlled what day to observe the waving of the Omer, contrary to the Hebrew Scriptures, is that in the year Jesus died, Nisan 15 fell on a Sabbath, which fell right in line with the correct day to observe the first day of Unleavened Bread. It worked out so that both the Pharisaical and the Sadducean methods occurred on the day after the weekly Sabbath, as demanded by Leviticus 23:11.

There is still a great deal I have to say on this subject, but it would take hours to do so. Therefore, I add a link to a lengthy reply I made online to this question. It is long, but it can be read with rest breaks. Printed out, it is about 20 pages long but it goes into great detail and answers many of the questions that arise when people discuss this topic. It is divided into a two-part reply and there are others who posted responses to this issue but all you have to do is to look for the replies made by Saber Truth Tiger.

can Nisan 15 be referred to as "the sabbath"?

6And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. 7On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you sha...

hermeneutics.stackexchange.com

I wish you all the best as you consider the arguments against the Wednesday crucifixion teaching! Take your time in reading it and if you tire, come back later and read some more. Or print it out. It's up to you but I have addressed every objection to my position and should I hear new objections that I have not heard before I will prayerfully consider them.

God Bless!

What difference does it make which day? None at all!

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

There are many that claim Leviticus 23:11 refers to an annual Sabbath while a simple reading of Leviticus 23:11 in context refers to the weekly Sabbath. Those that hold to an annual Sabbath in that verse sometimes point to the Septuagint as proof of their claim while those who hold to the biblical view insist that the Sabbath in that verse refers to the weekly Sabbath.

Let’s read, in context, the difference between THE SABBATH and “the first day” of the feast of Unleavened Bread. First, let’s look at the King James Version, which was translated from Hebrew:

Leviticus 23 1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts. 3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is THE SABBATH of rest, a holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is THE SABBATH of the LORD in all your dwellings.

This clearly is speaking of the weekly Sabbath and not any co-called annual Sabbath. Leviticus 23 continues...

4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. 5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's Passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. 7 In the first day ye shall have a holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. 8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is a holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

9 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: 11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after THE SABBATH the priest shall wave it.

The referent of this Sabbath is not the annual Sabbath Nisan 15 but the weekly Sabbath of verse three. There is no mention of an annual Sabbath here. The only Sabbath referred to prior to this verse is the weekly Sabbath in verse three.

Let's continue with Leviticus 23:15...

15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after THE SABBATH, (not the so-called annual Sabbath but the weekly Sabbath) from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; SEVEN SABBATHS shall be complete:16 Even unto the MORROW OF THE SEVENTH SABBATH shall ye number fifty days...

See how that reads, in context? The Sabbath in verses 11 and 15 have as their referent THE SABBATH in verse three. That’s context. Not a word about an annual Sabbath. Now, let’s read verse 16 in the KJV.

16 Even unto the morrow after the SEVENTH SABBATH shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD. The morrow of the seventh day is fifty days.

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Leviticus 23:16

Let's now look at the Septuagint's rendering of these verses.

BRENTON'S SEPTUAGINT TRANSLATION

Leviticus 23:1 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 Speak to the children of Israel, and thou shalt say unto them, The feasts of the Lord which ye shall call holy assemblies, these are my feasts.

3 Six days shalt thou do works, but on the seventh day is THE SABBATH; a rest, a holy convocation to the Lord: thou shalt not do any work, it is A SABBATH to the Lord in all your dwellings.

So far, so good. This clearly refers to the weekly Sabbath, not an annual Sabbath. Now let's continue reading.

4 These are the feasts to the Lord, holy convocations, which ye shall call in their seasons. 5 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, between the evening times is the Lord's Passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day of this month is the feast of unleavened bread to the Lord; seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread. 7 And the first day shall be a holy convocation to you: ye shall do no servile work. 8 And ye shall offer whole-burnt offerings to the Lord seven days, and the seventh day shall be a holy convocation to you: ye shall do no servile work.

9 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 10 Speak to the children of Israel, and thou shalt say to them, When ye shall enter into the land which I give you, and reap the harvest of it, then shall ye bring a sheaf, the first-fruits of your harvest, to the priest; 11 and he shall lift up the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted for you. ON THE MORROW OF THE FIRST DAY the priest shall lift it up.

See the change? The translators changed "ON THE MORROW OF THE SABBATH" in Hebrew to "ON THE MORROW OF THE FIRST DAY". Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread (Nisan 15) becomes the day preceding the wave sheaf, rather than the weekly Sabbath. That means under Rabbinical usage the wave sheaf would always end up on Nisan 16 instead of Sunday. Under the rules of the Hebrew Bible and the teaching of the Sadducees, the wave sheaf would always happen the day after the weekly Sabbath. Then one would count seven sabbaths (seven weeks) to the 49th day of the fifty-day count. The day that followed the seventh Sabbath would be another holy convocation that the Jews celebrated, Shavuot.

The Septuagint reads further:

12 And ye shall offer on the day on which ye bring the sheaf, a lamb without blemish of a year old for a whole-burnt-offering to the Lord. 13 And its meat-offering two tenth portions of fine flour mingled with oil: it is a sacrifice to the Lord, a smell of sweet savor to the Lord, and its drink-offering the fourth part of a hin of wine. 14 And ye shall not eat bread, or the new parched corn, until this same day, until ye offer the sacrifices to your God: it is a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

15 And ye shall number to yourselves FROM THE DAY AFTER THE SABBATH, from the day on which ye shall offer the sheaf of the heave-offering, SEVEN FULL WEEKS: 16 until the morrow after the LAST WEEK ye shall number fifty days, and shall bring a new meat-offering to the Lord.

See how changing SEVEN SABBATHS in the Hebrew to SEVEN FULL WEEKS in the Septuagint removes the need to count seven full weekly Sabbaths and instead opens the door to count any day of the week seven times? The Jews who used rabbinical reckoning thus did not have to count seven weekly Sabbaths but seven Tuesdays, Wednesdays, or any other day of the week.

Now, for verse 16 in the Septuagint:

16 until the morrow after the last WEEK ye shall number fifty days, and shall bring a new meat-offering to the Lord.

In the KJV it says "Count fifty days to the day AFTER THE SEVENTH SABBATH" but the Septuagint changes SABBATH to WEEK. This way when the rabbis started the count from the day after Nisan 15 they didn't have to wait for the weekly Sabbath to begin the count to Shavuot, they could begin immediately. If Nisan 16 was a Wednesday then Shavuot would be a Wednesday. Does anyone see a pattern here?

The annual holy convocations (KJV) were changed to “Sabbaths” by the predecessors to the Pharisees and the Pharisees in Jesus’ day clung to the Nisan 15 Sabbath. The Sadducees resisted, but they had no power since the Pharisees controlled temple worship when Jesus had his public ministry. I am just stating that according to the Hebrew text, Nisan 15 was NOT a Sabbath but the LXX changed that.

And this tradition of man has been carried down to our day. Modern Jews who keep the high days sacred can trace their worship back to Second Temple times.

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

Just so you know I hold to the Friday crucifixion and Sunday early morning resurrection of Jesus. This thread is supposed to be about the figure of speech, idiom, or Hebraism of Matthew 12:40. So here is my comment regarding Preparation, or Friday, the day before the weekly Sabbath.

Many sincere Christians claim that Matthew 12:40 is a Hebraism, an idiom, a figure of speech, or stuff. However, I find their claims unconvincing. The Jews do not teach that any part of a day, or any part of a night, no matter how small, can count as a whole day and night. There was a rabbi who claimed that a day and a night constitute an Onah and any part of that Onah could be reckoned as a whole.

However, what these sincere Christians don't seem to know, is there were fellow rabbis that disagreed with him on this issue. Most rabbis at that time considered a day as an Onah and a night as an Onah. In modern online Jewish Libraries Onah is often defined as either a day or a night, but not both. Christians will take the word of this one rabbi and apply it to the three days and three nights to justify calling that time period something less than three days and three nights (2 days and 2 nights).

It is very crucial to understand that Jesus did not use the rabbinical term Onah when he made the "three days and three nights" statement but he used the common language of the people of his time. He did not say as "Jonah was three Onahs in the whale's belly so shall the Son of Man be three Onahs in the heart of the earth". No, he used "days" and "nights", the language of the common folk and not the language of the rabbis or Pharisees. Onah was a rabbinical term and not a term used by the common people, at least as far as history records.

Although I deny this is an idiom that doesn't prevent me from accepting the Sunday early morning resurrection. When someone asks me how I reconcile the Friday - Sunday view with Matthew 12:40 I tell them I don't. However, my inability to reconcile the two does not mean Nisan 15 is a Sabbath and it doesn't prove Wednesday was the day Jesus was crucified. It just proves that I don't know the answer but hope to find it one day. An "I don't know" is more honest than making up things.

I believe Jesus died the day BEFORE the weekly Sabbath (Mark 15:42) and rose from the dead early on the first day of the week (Mark 16:1, Luke 24:1, and John 20:1). Scripture is very clear that Jesus died the day before the Sabbath and that he died on the Preparation of the Sabbath, which refers to a Friday.

In Greek texts of that time, Preparation comes from a Greek word that is used often in those times to refer to a Friday. Below are some examples of how the Greek word for Preparation is used.

The Didache 8:1 reads: “But as for your fasts, let them not be with the hypocrites, for they fast on the second and fifth days of the week, but do ye fast on the fourth and SIXTH days…” Kirsopp Lake’s translates the second and fifth days as Mondays and Thursdays and the fourth and sixth days as Wednesdays and Fridays.

Judith 8:6 reads: “and she fasted all the days of her widowhood, save the EVES OF THE SABBATHS, and the sabbaths, and the eves of the new moons, and the new moons, and the feasts and solemn days of the house of Israel.

Polycarp 7:1 reads: “So taking the lad with them, on the FRIDAY about the supper hour, the gendarmes and horsemen went forth with their accustomed arms, hastening as against a robber.”

II Maccabees 8:25-26 reads: “And they took their money that came to buy them, and pursued them far but lacking time they returned: For it was the DAY BEFORE THE SABBATH, and therefore they would no longer pursue them.

Antiquities of the Jews 16.6.2 reads: “and they be not obliged to go before any judge on the Sabbath day, nor on the day of the PREPARATION to it, after the ninth hour.”

It was late Friday when the women who came with Jesus from Galilee beheld the entombment of Jesus (Luke 23:55; Mark 15:45-47).

The book of John refers to the preparation of the Passover but in this case, it is not referring to Friday, but the cleansing of the homes of all leaven before the First Day of Unleavened Bread began (Nisan 15). So, "Preparation" often was used for Friday in the world of that time but it had other used too.

 

[Gary Mac]

There are many that claim Leviticus 23:11 refers to an annual Sabbath while a simple reading of Leviticus 23:11 in context refers to the weekly Sabbath. Those that hold to an annual Sabbath in that verse sometimes point to the Septuagint as proof of their claim while those who hold to the biblical view insist that the Sabbath in that verse refers to the weekly Sabbath.

Let’s read, in context, the difference between THE SABBATH and “the first day” of the feast of Unleavened Bread. First, let’s look at the King James Version, which was translated from Hebrew:

Leviticus 23 1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts. 3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is THE SABBATH of rest, a holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is THE SABBATH of the LORD in all your dwellings.

This clearly is speaking of the weekly Sabbath and not any co-called annual Sabbath. Leviticus 23 continues...

4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. 5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's Passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. 7 In the first day ye shall have a holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. 8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is a holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

9 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: 11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after THE SABBATH the priest shall wave it.

The referent of this Sabbath is not the annual Sabbath Nisan 15 but the weekly Sabbath of verse three. There is no mention of an annual Sabbath here. The only Sabbath referred to prior to this verse is the weekly Sabbath in verse three.

Let's continue with Leviticus 23:15...

15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after THE SABBATH, (not the so-called annual Sabbath but the weekly Sabbath) from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; SEVEN SABBATHS shall be complete:16 Even unto the MORROW OF THE SEVENTH SABBATH shall ye number fifty days...

See how that reads, in context? The Sabbath in verses 11 and 15 have as their referent THE SABBATH in verse three. That’s context. Not a word about an annual Sabbath. Now, let’s read verse 16 in the KJV.

16 Even unto the morrow after the SEVENTH SABBATH shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD. The morrow of the seventh day is fifty days.

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Leviticus 23:16

Let's now look at the Septuagint's rendering of these verses.

BRENTON'S SEPTUAGINT TRANSLATION

Leviticus 23:1 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 Speak to the children of Israel, and thou shalt say unto them, The feasts of the Lord which ye shall call holy assemblies, these are my feasts.

3 Six days shalt thou do works, but on the seventh day is THE SABBATH; a rest, a holy convocation to the Lord: thou shalt not do any work, it is A SABBATH to the Lord in all your dwellings.

So far, so good. This clearly refers to the weekly Sabbath, not an annual Sabbath. Now let's continue reading.

4 These are the feasts to the Lord, holy convocations, which ye shall call in their seasons. 5 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, between the evening times is the Lord's Passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day of this month is the feast of unleavened bread to the Lord; seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread. 7 And the first day shall be a holy convocation to you: ye shall do no servile work. 8 And ye shall offer whole-burnt offerings to the Lord seven days, and the seventh day shall be a holy convocation to you: ye shall do no servile work.

9 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 10 Speak to the children of Israel, and thou shalt say to them, When ye shall enter into the land which I give you, and reap the harvest of it, then shall ye bring a sheaf, the first-fruits of your harvest, to the priest; 11 and he shall lift up the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted for you. ON THE MORROW OF THE FIRST DAY the priest shall lift it up.

See the change? The translators changed "ON THE MORROW OF THE SABBATH" in Hebrew to "ON THE MORROW OF THE FIRST DAY". Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread (Nisan 15) becomes the day preceding the wave sheaf, rather than the weekly Sabbath. That means under Rabbinical usage the wave sheaf would always end up on Nisan 16 instead of Sunday. Under the rules of the Hebrew Bible and the teaching of the Sadducees, the wave sheaf would always happen the day after the weekly Sabbath. Then one would count seven sabbaths (seven weeks) to the 49th day of the fifty-day count. The day that followed the seventh Sabbath would be another holy convocation that the Jews celebrated, Shavuot.

The Septuagint reads further:

12 And ye shall offer on the day on which ye bring the sheaf, a lamb without blemish of a year old for a whole-burnt-offering to the Lord. 13 And its meat-offering two tenth portions of fine flour mingled with oil: it is a sacrifice to the Lord, a smell of sweet savor to the Lord, and its drink-offering the fourth part of a hin of wine. 14 And ye shall not eat bread, or the new parched corn, until this same day, until ye offer the sacrifices to your God: it is a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

15 And ye shall number to yourselves FROM THE DAY AFTER THE SABBATH, from the day on which ye shall offer the sheaf of the heave-offering, SEVEN FULL WEEKS: 16 until the morrow after the LAST WEEK ye shall number fifty days, and shall bring a new meat-offering to the Lord.

See how changing SEVEN SABBATHS in the Hebrew to SEVEN FULL WEEKS in the Septuagint removes the need to count seven full weekly Sabbaths and instead opens the door to count any day of the week seven times? The Jews who used rabbinical reckoning thus did not have to count seven weekly Sabbaths but seven Tuesdays, Wednesdays, or any other day of the week.

Now, for verse 16 in the Septuagint:

16 until the morrow after the last WEEK ye shall number fifty days, and shall bring a new meat-offering to the Lord.

In the KJV it says "Count fifty days to the day AFTER THE SEVENTH SABBATH" but the Septuagint changes SABBATH to WEEK. This way when the rabbis started the count from the day after Nisan 15 they didn't have to wait for the weekly Sabbath to begin the count to Shavuot, they could begin immediately. If Nisan 16 was a Wednesday then Shavuot would be a Wednesday. Does anyone see a pattern here?

The annual holy convocations (KJV) were changed to “Sabbaths” by the predecessors to the Pharisees and the Pharisees in Jesus’ day clung to the Nisan 15 Sabbath. The Sadducees resisted, but they had no power since the Pharisees controlled temple worship when Jesus had his public ministry. I am just stating that according to the Hebrew text, Nisan 15 was NOT a Sabbath but the LXX changed that.

Those who are anointed of God do His will 24-7 but we do take one day a week to rest from the works of and do what we like to do ourselves. On my day off I go fishing, or play golf, or whatever it is I desire for myself, but one thing is clear it is kept holy for God who is in me makes every day holy.

Most work for God for a few hours one day a week and call it a Sabbath, then take the other six days off. These gather, sing a couple songs, say a repetitious prayer, sing another song, deliver a life changing sermon, give an alter call, say a another prayer, sing another song, take up an offering, sing another song then go eat and call it a sabbath. Some do it Wednesday, some Thursday, some Friday, some Saturday, some Sunday, some Monday. Those are only mans traditions.

Those who are of Gods anointing with Christ in us as Jesus was anointed of God, every minute of every day is the same in Him without deviation. Religious minds are not going to like this post because they do not understand what Gods day of rest is.

 

[Our Lord's God]

Those who are anointed of God do His will 24-7 but we do take one day a week to rest from the works of and do what we like to do ourselves. On my day off I go fishing, or play golf, or whatever it is I desire for myself, but one thing is clear it is kept holy for God who is in me makes every day holy.

Most work for God for a few hours one day a week and call it a Sabbath, then take the other six days off. These gather, sing a couple songs, say a repetitious prayer, sing another song, deliver a life changing sermon, give an alter call, say a another prayer, sing another song, take up an offering, sing another song then go eat and call it a sabbath. Some do it Wednesday, some Thursday, some Friday, some Saturday, some Sunday, some Monday. Those are only mans traditions.

Those who are of Gods anointing with Christ in us as Jesus was anointed of God, every minute of every day is the same in Him without deviation. Religious minds are not going to like this post because they do not understand what Gods day of rest is.

Those who abide in God, are already in their Sabbath rest because God has been in His Sabbath rest since Genesis 2:1, and so if you abide in God, you abide in that Sabbath rest.

God didn't go back to work on Sunday. Heb 4:3

 

[Gary Mac]

Those who abide in God, are already in their Sabbath rest because God has been in His Sabbath rest since Genesis 2:1, and so if you abide in God, you abide in that Sabbath rest.

God didn't go back to work on Sunday. Heb 4:3

Correct, He is the very same 24-7. And we who are of Him is the very same 24-7 for we have His same disposition, same mind that is anointed of God and walk in it as He walks in it, which is Christ in us. Either one is anointed of God and has His same disposition of holiness or one doesnt and is of sin instead.

Jesus was tempted no different from any other man, the difference is, he let God into his life in Matt 3:16 and everything changed. That is exactly why he said ye must be born again or you will never know that what he was educated in by God Himself.

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

Does Leviticus 23:11 refer to an annual Sabbath or the weekly Sabbath? This is important because a Jew who wants to celebrate the holy convocations and weekly Sabbath correctly needs to know which one it is. It also has a bearing on the "three days and three nights" issue because those who claim Jesus died on a Wednesday and rose from the dead Saturday morning use this verse to claim the Sabbath in Leviticus 23:11 is Nisan 15 and not the weekly Sabbath. They further claim this annual Sabbath fell on Thursday the week Jesus died so fast forward three days and three nights later from Wednesday afternoon and you have a resurrection on Sabbath morning before sunrise.

Modern Jews hold to the teaching that the seven annual holy convocations are Sabbaths, contrary to what the Hebrew Scriptures teach. Below is how modern Jews translate Hebrew into English and how they alter it at key points to do away with the belief that the first Sabbath after the First Day of Unleavened Bread.

Here is how the JPS TANACH 1917 edition translates Leviticus 23:1-16. Keep in mind that the translators of this edition of the Tanach were Jews who held the view that the seven annual holidays are Sabbaths.

Leviticus 23: 1 And the LORD spoke unto Moses, saying:

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them: The appointed seasons of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are My appointed seasons.

3 Six days shall work be done; but on the seventh day is A SABBATH of solemn rest, a holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of work; it is A SABBATH unto the LORD in all your dwellings.

This is where the Tanach parts with the KJV. It refers to the Sabbath as "A" Sabbath and not "THE" SABBATH. Let's continue reading.

Leviticus 23:4 These are the appointed seasons of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their appointed season. 5 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at dusk, is the LORD’S Passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD; seven days ye shall eat unleavened bread.

7 In the first day ye shall have a holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work. 8 And ye shall bring an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days; in the seventh day is a holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work. 9 And the LORD spoke unto Moses saying: 10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them: When ye are come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring the sheaf of the first fruits of your harvest unto the priest.

11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you; ON THE MORROW AFTER THE SABBATH the priest shall wave it.

The Tanach translates this from the Hebrew and they do it correctly. Let's continue reading.


Leviticus 23:12 And in the day when ye wave the sheaf, ye shall offer a he-lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt-offering unto the LORD. 13 And the meal-offering thereof shall be two tenth parts of an ephah of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the LORD for a sweet savor; and the drink-offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of a hin. 14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor fresh ears, until this selfsame day, until ye have brought the offering of your God; it is a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

15 And ye shall count unto you FROM THE MORROW AFTER THE DAY OF REST, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the waving; SEVEN WEEKS shall there be complete;

Here, the Tanach changes FROM THE MORROW AFTER THE SABBATH in Hebrew to FROM THE MORROW AFTER THE DAY OF REST, hence it opens the door to a reader reaching the conclusion that it could be the First Day of Unleavened Bread it is referring to, no matter what day of the week it may be. The Tanach also translates SEVEN SABBATHS in Hebrew to SEVEN WEEKS in English.

Leviticus 23:16 in the Tanach reads as follows:

16 You shall count until the day AFTER THE SEVENTH WEEK [namely,] the fiftieth day, [on which] you shall bring a new meal offering to the Lord.

Here, the KJV renders it "Count fifty days to the day AFTER THE SEVENTH SABBATH" which is true to the Hebrew.

Some who hold to the Nisan 15 Sabbath are quick to point out that the Hebrew word for Sabbath can mean simply "rest day" or "day of rest". Yes, that is true. The Sabbath is indeed a day of rest. However, even though all Sabbaths are rest days not all rest days are Sabbaths.

 

[Gary Mac]

Does Leviticus 23:11 refer to an annual Sabbath or the weekly Sabbath? This is important because a Jew who wants to celebrate the holy convocations and weekly Sabbath correctly needs to know which one it is. It also has a bearing on the "three days and three nights" issue because those who claim Jesus died on a Wednesday and rose from the dead Saturday morning use this verse to claim the Sabbath in Leviticus 23:11 is Nisan 15 and not the weekly Sabbath. They further claim this annual Sabbath fell on Thursday the week Jesus died so fast forward three days and three nights later from Wednesday afternoon and you have a resurrection on Sabbath morning before sunrise.

Modern Jews hold to the teaching that the seven annual holy convocations are Sabbaths, contrary to what the Hebrew Scriptures teach. Below is how modern Jews translate Hebrew into English and how they alter it at key points to do away with the belief that the first Sabbath after the First Day of Unleavened Bread.

Here is how the JPS TANACH 1917 edition translates Leviticus 23:1-16. Keep in mind that the translators of this edition of the Tanach were Jews who held the view that the seven annual holidays are Sabbaths.

Leviticus 23: 1 And the LORD spoke unto Moses, saying:

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them: The appointed seasons of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are My appointed seasons.

3 Six days shall work be done; but on the seventh day is A SABBATH of solemn rest, a holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of work; it is A SABBATH unto the LORD in all your dwellings.

This is where the Tanach parts with the KJV. It refers to the Sabbath as "A" Sabbath and not "THE" SABBATH. Let's continue reading.

Leviticus 23:4 These are the appointed seasons of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their appointed season. 5 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at dusk, is the LORD’S Passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD; seven days ye shall eat unleavened bread.

7 In the first day ye shall have a holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work. 8 And ye shall bring an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days; in the seventh day is a holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work. 9 And the LORD spoke unto Moses saying: 10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them: When ye are come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring the sheaf of the first fruits of your harvest unto the priest.

11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you; ON THE MORROW AFTER THE SABBATH the priest shall wave it.

The Tanach translates this from the Hebrew and they do it correctly. Let's continue reading.


Leviticus 23:12 And in the day when ye wave the sheaf, ye shall offer a he-lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt-offering unto the LORD. 13 And the meal-offering thereof shall be two tenth parts of an ephah of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the LORD for a sweet savor; and the drink-offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of a hin. 14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor fresh ears, until this selfsame day, until ye have brought the offering of your God; it is a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

15 And ye shall count unto you FROM THE MORROW AFTER THE DAY OF REST, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the waving; SEVEN WEEKS shall there be complete;

Here, the Tanach changes FROM THE MORROW AFTER THE SABBATH in Hebrew to FROM THE MORROW AFTER THE DAY OF REST, hence it opens the door to a reader reaching the conclusion that it could be the First Day of Unleavened Bread it is referring to, no matter what day of the week it may be. The Tanach also translates SEVEN SABBATHS in Hebrew to SEVEN WEEKS in English.

Leviticus 23:16 in the Tanach reads as follows:

16 You shall count until the day AFTER THE SEVENTH WEEK [namely,] the fiftieth day, [on which] you shall bring a new meal offering to the Lord.

Here, the KJV renders it "Count fifty days to the day AFTER THE SEVENTH SABBATH" which is true to the Hebrew.

Some who hold to the Nisan 15 Sabbath are quick to point out that the Hebrew word for Sabbath can mean simply "rest day" or "day of rest". Yes, that is true. The Sabbath is indeed a day of rest. However, even though all Sabbaths are rest days not all rest days are Sabbaths.

It isn't important at all for us who has from God that what Jesus received from Him in Matt 3:16.Everyday is the same in Him.

All of those rituals for a Sabbath, baptisms, sacraments, are of the laws of the different belief systems causing confusion as is common among religious minds is all.

One believe the sabbath is Wednesday, one believes it is Thursday, another believe it is Friday, another Saturday, another Sunday another Monday and they all try and justify their beliefs by law instead of letting God come to them as He did Jesus and changed his whole attitude for a sabbath that was beholden to the Jewish lawson the temple that he was once beholden to.

Jesus was crucified for breaking the Jewish sabbath as a blasphemer, accusing him of wine bibber, glutton, sabbath breaker.

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

In the Hebrew Bible, the weekly Sabbath was almost always referred to as "the Sabbath". If your Old Testament is translated from the Masoretic Hebrew text then no, Nisan 15 is not a Sabbath.


According to the Hebrew Scriptures (Masoretic Text), Nisan 15 was never designated as a Sabbath. There were three types of Sabbaths: 1) the weekly Sabbath, 2) the land Sabbath where the land had to lay unused every seventh year 3) the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur), an annual Sabbath that fell in the seventh month of the Jewish calendar.

There were seven annual holy convocations in the Jewish Year and six of them forbade only servile work and were never called sabbaths in the Hebrew text. There is a reason why the Day of Atonement was called a Sabbath and the others weren't. It forbade ALL work, not just servile work, just like the weekly Sabbath. Regarding the Day of Atonement read in the KJV Leviticus 16:29, 23:28, 30, 31; Numbers 29:7.

This was just like the weekly Sabbath. For example, refer to Exodus 20:10, 31:14,15; Leviticus 23:3, Deuteronomy 5:14; Jeremiah 17:22.


Notice the Day of Atonement and the weekly Sabbath both prohibit ALL work. So the Day of Atonement has the same definition of the weekly Sabbath.


Furthermore, almost every place in the Hebrew Scriptures where "the Sabbath" is found refers to the weekly Sabbath. So too, apparently in the Greek Scriptures (New Testament). There are a few exceptions (the land Sabbath for example).

There are, in the KJV, four holy convocations in the sacred seventh month of the Jewish Year (Tishri) that are called Sabbaths but three of them come from a different Hebrew word (Shabathown) than the weekly Sabbath (Shabbath) and the Day of Atonement uses the usual word for Sabbath. Shabbathown is spelled similarly to the weekly Sabbath but it means "REST". It is even translated as REST elsewhere in the KJV, and is used sometimes with the Hebrew word Sabbath as in "A Sabbath of REST (Exodus 16:23, 31:15, 35:2, Leviticus 16:31, 23:3, 32; 25:4,5.

Just keep in mind if the holy convocation allows no work it is a Sabbath. If it forbids only servile work it is not a Sabbath, according to the Hebrew Scriptures. If used in conjunction with the weekly Shabbath it is a "Shabbath Shabbathown" (Sabbath of Rest). Even in the Septuagint (LXX), those three holy convocations in the seventh month are called Sabbaths in the KJV and are NOT called Sabbaths in other translations. In the Septuagint they are called ANAPAUSIS which in Greek means "REST". ANAPAUSIS is also used in the Christian Greek Scriptures (the New Testament) and it means REST there too.

There are places in the KJV Bible where the new moons, sabbaths, set feasts, solemnities, solemn feasts, assemblies, and such are mentioned together.These are found in I Chronicles 23:31; II Chronicles 2:4, 8:13, 31:3; Nehemiah 10:31,33; Hosea 2:11, Lamentations 2:6, Ezekiel 44:24, 45:17.

After these were written they remained the same until about the second or third century BC when the Jews began celebrating the holy convocations as Sabbaths. The translation of the Septuagint carried the new view of Nisan 15 being the sabbath. Check Leviticus 23:11, 15 for this. The Jewish translators of the Septuagint took the Hebrew words “on the morrow after the sabbath” in Leviticus 23:11 and changed them to “on the morrow of the first day" (of the Feast)”.This means the first day of Unleavened bread (Nisan 15) would hitherto be celebrated as a Sabbath by the Pharisees and rabbinical authorities. The morrow of the first day would be the morning of Nisan 16.

Hence the waving of the sheaf would always occur on Nisan 16 under the Pharisean and rabbinical reckoning. Since “on the morrow of the first day (of the Feast) is the referent for Sabbath in Leviticus 23:15 then it follows that Nisan 15 was called a Sabbath by the Pharisees and later the Rabbis. The Sadducees in the first century AD disagreed with this view. They were known as the Torah literalists of their day and they did not call the holy convocations "Sabbaths". The Pharisees did and they controlled temple worship when Jesus was alive. So, by the time Jesus was crucified early in the first century AD Pharisaical Jews celebrated Nisan 15 every year as a Sabbath and waved the Omer every year on Nisan 16. The Rabbinical authorities chose to honor the second day of the Feast as the day to wave the Omer and start the countdown to Pentecost from that day.

Josephus relates this practice in Antiquities of the Jews in Book III, Chapter 10, verse 5. Read the following:


“But in the month of Xanthicus; which is by us called Nisan, and is the beginning of our year; on the fourteenth day of the Lunar month, when the sun is in Aries; for on this month it was that we were delivered from bondage under the Egyptians: the law ordained that we should every year slay that sacrifice which I before told you we slew when we came out of Egypt: and which was called the Passover. And so we do celebrate this Passover in companies, and leave nothing of what we sacrifice till the day following. The feast of unleavened bread succeeds that of the Passover, and falls on the fifteenth day of the month, and continues seven days: wherein they feed on unleavened bread. On every one of which days two bulls are killed, and one ram, and seven lambs. Now these lambs are entirely burnt, besides the kid of the goats, which is added to all the rest, for sins: for it is intended as a feast for the Priest on every one of those days. BUT ON THE SECOND DAY OF UNLEAVENED BREAD, WHICH IS THE SIXTEENTH DAY OF THE MONTH, THEY FIRST PARTAKE OF THE FRUITS OF THE EARTH: FOR BEFORE THAT DAY THEY DO NOT TOUCH THEM (Capitals mine).

The Sadducees of course believed differently. They taught the day after the first weekly Passover was the day of the waving of the Omer and taught the fifty-day countdown to Shavuot began on that day. The early Christians adopted the Sadducean method of counting down to Shavuot.

The weekly Sabbath coincided with the so-called annual Sabbath the year Jesus was crucified. The reason it was a "big" Sabbath (MEGAS in the Greek) was the holy convocation coincided with the weekly Sabbath. In the KJV it is called a "high day". In our present time, the Jews refer to the holy convocations as "high" Sabbaths but in John 19:31 the sabbath that was called a "high day" was translated from the Greek word MEGAS, which means big or great. https://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_3173.htm


It's important to keep in mind by the time the KJV was written (1611 AD) the Jewish people had been calling the seven annual holy convocations as "high" sabbaths for more than 18 centuries so the translators took the Greek word MEGAS and translated it as "high" in John 19:31. The Church of England also called their religious days "high" days. However, that's not what John wrote.

See the Interlinear Greek-English New Testament by George Ricker Berry (page 411) 1981 edition. Here is how Berry translates it word for word: “The, therefore Jews, that might not remain on the cross the bodies on the sabbath, because [the] preparation it was, (for was great that sabbath)… https://tinyurl.com/3h9amtfm It was not just a "high sabbath" but simply the weekly sabbath that was MEGALES, big, or great because it was a combination of the weekly Sabbath and a holy convocation. That would indeed be a "great" day. Modern Jews call their annual holidays "high days" and they have called them that for centuries.

It's interesting that at least three online versions of the Martyrdom of Polycarp write that Polycarp was seized on a Friday and killed on the Great (MEGA) Sabbath. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/martyrdompolycarp.html This Sabbath (when Polycarp died) fell in February and had no reference to a Jewish holy convocation. It was big because a big event (Polycarp's death) coincided with the weekly Sabbath. Hence, it earned the title of Great Sabbath, just like people call the Friday Jesus died "Good Friday."

However, the bottom line, Nisan 15 is never called a Sabbath in the Hebrew Scriptures. The Pharisees had their own tradition and it was not what the Hebrew Scriptures taught. The so-called Nisan 15 "High Sabbath" was an invention of the Pharisees and their predecessors and the Sadducees in Jesus' day didn't buy it. They disagreed with the Pharisees on this. Nonetheless, the Pharisees controlled temple worship and after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD the Sadducees and their followers faded away and the Nisan 15 Sabbath prevailed upon the Jewish people. Not all scholars agree the Pharisees controlled temple worship though. It is clear the Sadducees held considerable power in 33 AD but there are no surviving writings of the Sadducees from that time period. All we know about the Sadducees are what their enemies the Pharisees wrote about them.

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

One way we can know that the Sabbath that followed the crucifixion was the weekly Sabbath was the urgency that surrounded the attempt to entomb the body of Jesus before the Sabbath. That wouldn't have been necessary if the annual Sabbath was the one that was bothering them. Nisan 15 forbade only servile work, not ALL work like the weekly Sabbath does.

Take Luke 23:53-56 in CONTEXT. We see in Luke 23:53 the Sabbath was drawing on as Jesus' friends were entombing his body and the women saw where the body was laid. Then, according to verse 56, they returned and prepared spices and rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment. So, even though they may have finished preparing spices a little past the beginning of the Sabbath, they rested on the weekly Sabbath, that is, the Sabbath according to the commandment. So Nisan 15 fell on the day of the weekly Sabbath.

Luke 23:53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulcher that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. 54 And that day was the preparation, and THE SABBATH drew on. 55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulcher, and how his body was laid. 56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments, and rested THE SABBATH day according to the commandment.

Another way to see that Nisan 15 could not be a scriptural Sabbath is to look at Nisan 21, the holy convocation that fell on the last day of unleavened bread. If Nisan 15 was a Sabbath and it fell on a Thursday that means the following Wednesday would be Nisan 21, also a Sabbath. Now, the Jews were to count seven Sabbaths following the wave sheaf offering to arrive at Pentecost, another so-called Sabbath. If Nisan 15 were a Sabbath then Nisan 21 would have to be counted as a Sabbath too. And guess what? You would end up with something less than 50 days to Pentecost. That's because there would only be six weekly sabbaths and the so-called Nisan 21 Sabbath. However, Nisan 21 was never counted over the years as one of those seven consecutive Sabbaths. So if Nisan 21 was not reckoned as a Sabbath why would Nisan 15 be a Sabbath? A holy convocation, yes, but a Sabbath? No.

The fact is though is the Pharisees put their traditions above the Hebrew Scriptures and followed the Greek translation of the Hebrew. Moreover, Pentecost is also a holy convocation and is not called a Sabbath, but the day AFTER the Sabbath (Leviticus 23:15,16).

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

Ok, just one more post! Was Jesus crucified on a Wednesday? No, he was not! The evidence supports the Friday crucifixion and Sunday morning resurrection. It is true that the evidence is weak for "three days and three nights" being an idiom or a Hebraism. But that doesn't detract from the Friday-to-Sunday view. There are things I don't understand but I know there is overwhelming evidence that Jesus died on a Friday.

The new moons and the holy convocations were all rest days but they were not all Sabbaths. Remember, only the holy convocation Day of Atonement was a Sabbath and the others were simply solemn days and days of rest from your occupations and strenuous labor. They were also days to hold a holy assembly but were not considered Sabbaths in the days the Torah was written. Here is a link for further information:

Were the new moons observed similarly to Sabbaths and holy convocations?.


Some ask how and when did Nisan 15 become a Sabbath if it wasn't considered such at the time the Torah was written? No one knows for sure but it probably became considered a Sabbath while the Jews were in captivity in Babylon. The Jews spent about 70 years in Babylon servitude and the Babylons considered the 15th of the first month a Sabbath. It is easy to see if you believed Nisan 15 was a holy convocation and was a special day of rest and worship and it coincided with a Sabbath in the land you were a slave in that in about a generation the Hebrew Nisan 15 would be called a Sabbath too. After all, the Jews in captivity borrowed from the Babylonians the names of the months. However, calling Nisan 15 a Sabbath is not the same as it being a Sabbath.

If you believe the Hebrew Scriptures are inspired by God then you must admit Nisan 15 is NOT a Sabbath. That means if you likewise believe the Christian Greek Scriptures are inspired by God, then the inspired Greek writers would not have referred to Nisan 15 as a Sabbath since to do so would bow to the Pharisee tradition and not come into agreement with what the Hebrew Scriptures taught. If neither the Hebrew nor the Greek writings are inspired, then it doesn't really matter what you call the day. It's just another holy day out of many in a man-made religion.

 

[Gary Mac]

Ok, just one more post! Was Jesus crucified on a Wednesday? No, he was not! The evidence supports the Friday crucifixion and Sunday morning resurrection. It is true that the evidence is weak for "three days and three nights" being an idiom or a Hebraism. But that doesn't detract from the Friday-to-Sunday view. There are things I don't understand but I know there is overwhelming evidence that Jesus died on a Friday.

The new moons and the holy convocations were all rest days but they were not all Sabbaths. Remember, only the holy convocation Day of Atonement was a Sabbath and the others were simply solemn days and days of rest from your occupations and strenuous labor. They were also days to hold a holy assembly but were not considered Sabbaths in the days the Torah was written. Here is a link for further information:

Were the new moons observed similarly to Sabbaths and holy convocations?.


Some ask how and when did Nisan 15 become a Sabbath if it wasn't considered such at the time the Torah was written? No one knows for sure but it probably became considered a Sabbath while the Jews were in captivity in Babylon. The Jews spent about 70 years in Babylon servitude and the Babylons considered the 15th of the first month a Sabbath. It is easy to see if you believed Nisan 15 was a holy convocation and was a special day of rest and worship and it coincided with a Sabbath in the land you were a slave in that in about a generation the Hebrew Nisan 15 would be called a Sabbath too. After all, the Jews in captivity borrowed from the Babylonians the names of the months. However, calling Nisan 15 a Sabbath is not the same as it being a Sabbath.

If you believe the Hebrew Scriptures are inspired by God then you must admit Nisan 15 is NOT a Sabbath. That means if you likewise believe the Christian Greek Scriptures are inspired by God, then the inspired Greek writers would not have referred to Nisan 15 as a Sabbath since to do so would bow to the Pharisee tradition and not come into agreement with what the Hebrew Scriptures taught. If neither the Hebrew nor the Greek writings are inspired, then it doesn't really matter what you call the day. It's just another holy day out of many in a man-made religion.

What difference does it make what day Jesus was crucified? None at all!

 

[Josheb]

What difference does it make what day Jesus was crucified? None at all!

If scripture states he was in the grave three days and he was not, that matters. Since scripture establishes he had risen on the first day of the week and he was dead three days then we CANNOT say he was alive Friday, dead Saturday, and alive again on Sunday AND still make that three days. If there is one single place scripture is false then our ability to rely on it as truth is negated.

It does make a difference.