Compound Unity vs The ECHAD of the Equal Share, or three persons

1

101G

Well-known member
Out of Judaism sprang our Lord. the MESSIAH of the World, and hence Christianity also came. so, we share the same roots.
To all my Messianic Jewish friends, and also to those who are still stuck in Judaism of the Old Covenant, and all the Christians of the New Covenant,
Greeting in the name of the Lord Yeshua/Jesus the Christ.

I would like to draw closer, the gap between the above mention groups in a concrete sincere discussion based on your current beliefs in a compound unity, and or a ECHAD of Equal sharing in flesh bone and blood, or three persons.

by understanding our definitions, we can understand each other better.

Compound: a thing that is composed of two or more separate elements; a mixture

Unity: the state of being united or joined as a whole:

for these two definitions above, can we agree that GOD is a plurality. can we agree on that?

as a Diversified Oneness, based on that information above, we as Diversified Oneness also agree that God is a plurality, of himserlf.

but the question for all is this, "Is God a plurality in A. Nature of himself as ONE Persons, or B. in separate and distinct Persons of One Nature. or C. the Nature/Essance of himself as ONE person shared in the ECHAD of himself in Ordinal Designations as First and Last, Aleph/Tav.

we can start our discussion in the beginning, at Genesis 1:1, with Deut 6:4 close behind. because this is where the meat of the matter is found to start us off.

If any of the above points in the OP do not correctly reflect your beliefs, please feel free to make any changes,

PICJAG, 101G.
 
Gen 1:1 “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth”.
I understand that there are two letters in Genesis 1:1 that are not translated …. the Aleph and the Tav. Or in the English Language, “First”, and “Last” equivalent. Which is where I will begin to make my case for an ECHAD in EQUAL “SHARE”. as pointed out in the OP position C. the Nature/Essance of himself as ONE person shared in the ECHAD of himself in Ordinal Designations as First and Last, Aleph/Tav.

And I began this discussion with the word or term that identifies God as the “First”, or the “Aleph”, and that term is “Beginning”. which in the Hebrew is, H7225 רֵאשִׁית re'shiyth (ray-sheeth') n-f.
1. the first, in place, time, order or rank.
2. (specifically) a firstfruit.
[from the same as H7218]
KJV: beginning, chief(-est), first(-fruits, part, time), principal thing.
Root(s): H7218

Definition #1 & 2 makes my point as outlined in the OP as C.

With that definition, the next term I turn to is the Word or Term “God” itself, which in Hebrew is, H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433

It’s the plural of H433,
H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m.
אֱלֹהַּ 'eloahh (el-o'-ah) [shortened (rarely)]
1. one with supreme strength and ability.
2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator, Yahweh by name.
3. a supreme entity, a god-like creature (that is, one of God's supreme creations, or one of man's inventions).
[probably prolonged (emphat.) from H410]
KJV: God, god.
Root(s): H410

these definitions are my start to support my position C in the OP, for God as a plurality of himself in Flesh to COME.

All the above definitions are from the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments

PICJAG, 101G.
 
the term "beginning" in Genesis 1:1, and the two letters aleph and tav, confirms the plurality of "God" as an ECHAD in ordinal designations of First", and "Last" just as the bible plainly states. God is an equality of himself in his own IMAGE. ..... MAN.

for the tern "ONE" in Deut 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD": support this conclusion. the term "one" is,
H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258

definition #2. is clearly the right explanation for God's plurality of ONE in the ECHAD. as said the term Beginning in Genesis 1:1 clearly supports
definition #2. of "ONE" here in Deut 6:4.

PICJAG, 101GF.
 
The nature of God is us, and everything around us. scripture,
Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Acts 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Acts 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

and as the definition of NATURE STATES, "especially when seen as characteristic of it". the characteristic of God was manifested in flesh bone and blood, as a man .... his "OWN IMAGE". supportive scripture,
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

the express image of his, his, his, PERSON. meaning "character", or the "characteristic" of God in the title "SON", which, means the manifested character or the characteristic of God, please notice in his own CREATION. for the TERM, "SON". means metaphorically the character or the characteristic of God in NATURE.
the term Son simply means the MANIFESTED character or the characteristic of God in NATURE.

oh, how simple it is to understand God, in the ECHAD of First, "Father", and Last shared in flesh as "Son".

PICJAG, 101G.
 
101G said:
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Click to expand...
if one is wondering where I got this information of the characteristic of God from as Son. the term "Express Image", is the Greek word
G5481 χαρακτήρ charakter (cha-rak-teer') n.
1. an engraver (the tool or the person).
2. (by implication) an engraving.
3. (hence) a “character,” the figure stamped.
4. (by extension) an exact copy.
5. (figuratively) a representation.
[from charasso “to sharpen to a point” (akin to G1125 through the idea of scratching)]
KJV: express image

and as said, "Son" when used metaphorically means "characteristics"

PICJAG, 101G.
 
American Gothic said:
so Go is Nature?

Pantheism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...
Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Acts 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Acts 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

PICJAG, 101G/
 
101G said:
Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Acts 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Click to expand...
explain

so Go(d) is Nature?
 
101G said:
Out of Judaism sprang our Lord. the MESSIAH of the World, and hence Christianity also came. so, we share the same roots.
To all my Messianic Jewish friends, and also to those who are still stuck in Judaism of the Old Covenant, and all the Christians of the New Covenant,
Greeting in the name of the Lord Yeshua/Jesus the Christ.

I would like to draw closer, the gap between the above mention groups in a concrete sincere discussion based on your current beliefs in a compound unity, and or a ECHAD of Equal sharing in flesh bone and blood, or three persons.

by understanding our definitions, we can understand each other better.

Compound: a thing that is composed of two or more separate elements; a mixture

Unity: the state of being united or joined as a whole:

for these two definitions above, can we agree that GOD is a plurality. can we agree on that?

as a Diversified Oneness, based on that information above, we as Diversified Oneness also agree that God is a plurality, of himserlf.

but the question for all is this, "Is God a plurality in A. Nature of himself as ONE Persons, or B. in separate and distinct Persons of One Nature. or C. the Nature/Essance of himself as ONE person shared in the ECHAD of himself in Ordinal Designations as First and Last, Aleph/Tav.

we can start our discussion in the beginning, at Genesis 1:1, with Deut 6:4 close behind. because this is where the meat of the matter is found to start us off.

If any of the above points in the OP do not correctly reflect your beliefs, please feel free to make any changes,

PICJAG, 101G.
Click to expand...
Based on the Dead Sea Scrolls this is how the Divine Triad appears to be:

1) Monad: The Most High God, “The El”, Source of all things, “heavenly Father,” Silence, the Depth, invisible, ineffable, unknowable (in himself), absolute good, technically, an abstraction because there is nothing like it in existence, non-existence, pre-existence.

He emanates from himself, manifests into existence, produces, the following two things: Wisdom and Power

2) Divine Mind: Wisdom of God, Holy Spirit, Jesus, Joshua, Yeshua, Prince of Truth, Light, Moral Intellect, Moral consciousness, Mind of Christ, male

3) Divine Power: Nature, substance, existence, “YHWH Elohim”, Prince of Darkness, Wrath of God, Power of God, Body of Christ, World Soul, cosmos, son of God, Life, female

”For his invisible attributes, namely, 1) his 3) eternal power and 2) divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.” (Romans 1:20)

The terms used to describe 2) and 3) may seem contradictory because 2) and 3) are in motion, changing, becoming something. When first produced in the Past (before the Big Bang) they were a syzygy, in harmony, in unity, androgynous. ordered, balanced, beautiful. He was known in heaven as the primal Adam or first Man, because he was the first-begotten, most powerful god-like being made of spirit, soul, and body, like we would be made in the present

Heaven: Intelligible World
Past: Primal, heavenly Adam (divine entity, god-like being, son of God)​
2) Wisdom of God (Ruach Elohim), Light, Divine Mind, Holy Spirit3) Power of God (YHWH Elohim), Life, world body-soul

From this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ all things have been made, angels, demons, matter, humans, etc. Son of God ruled heaven in the Past but something bad happened. A separation between the two, a division, a breaking away, a collapse, a fall, a SIN in heaven, darkness separated from light: The seraphim corrupted his Wisdom, separated from the Wisdom of his Father, took his Power and squandered it on any desire he wanted. (Ezekiel 28) He wanted to rule in heaven as the God. The Power of his own nature was too much for him without the regulating, calming, soothing control of God’s Wisdom. Nature perturbed and inflamed suffered an internal conflagration, was expelled from heaven, and transmuted into matter at the Big Bang. A star fell from heaven dragging many with it. He has been separated and contained in the material world, the underworld, Sheol, darkness, where the Power of God now exists as a consuming fire.

In the Present, in the Now, Heaven has been separated from hell, or hades. YHWH rules the material world, and Ruach rules the intelligible world. YHWH forms humans to rule over, curses their world for seeking wisdom and rules over them as god. But the Most High God hears their pleas for help and sends his Wisdom, the Divine Mind, Spirit down from heaven to preach salvation, to comfort, to give hope, to heal , and to ultimately raise them up to heaven.

Present
2) Wisdom ☀️2) Wisdom ☀️2) Wisdom ☀️
2) Wisdom ☀️3) Power of God ???‍?‍?‍?☀️2) Wisdom ☀️
2) Wisdom ☀️3) wisdom ☀️3) Wisdom ☀️

This ^^^^^^ is where everything currently stands in the present. The future (possibly soon) brings total reconciliation “bodily resurrection of Christ” but we are not their yet.

In summary, all things, to include the Fall of primal Adam, plan for salvation and reconciliation, angels, demons, humans, matter, past, present, future, eternities, heaven, hell—ALL THINGS, are contained within the Divine Triad.

1) The Most High God
2) Wisdom of God
3) Power of God
 
Last edited:
101G said:
The MOST HIGH is Wisdom. and Power.

PICJAG, 101G.
Click to expand...
Right, but the Most High has to cause what he is to manifest in existence as his Son. Thus the Son of God shares in his divine nature (Wisdom) and Power (Substance, reality, existence). Since we exist in the Son then we also share in that divine nature and power, (although, in a much limited, imperfect way, since Son of God suffers at the present time).

In that way the Most High God “is over all and through all and in all.” (Eph 4:6)
 
Last edited:
docphin5 said:
Right, but the Most High has to cause what he is to manifest in existence as his Son. Thus the Son of God shares in his divine nature (Wisdom) and Power (Substance, reality, existence). Since we exist in the Son then we also share in that divine nature and power, (although, in a much limited, imperfect way, since Son of God suffers at the present time).

In that way the Most High God “is over all and through all and in all.” (Eph 4:6)
Click to expand...
only one person is the source of all wisdom, power, and existence of all things.

PICJAG, 101G
 
101G said:
only one person is the source of all wisdom, power, and existence of all things.

PICJAG, 101G
Click to expand...
The term “person” is inaccurately applied to the Most High God. I know it is meant to anthropomorphize him so we can better relate to him, but technically he is much greater than any word can contain, to include the term, God, which many times is applied in a narrow sense. For example, the Bible refers to the stomach as god. The devil is god, and so on. Every time we attach a human word to him we risk making him smaller, more earthly in our conception than he really is. The extreme result of that conception would be idol worship.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top