Concerning Enoch

Cynthia

Active member
What explanation do we have for the disappearance of Enoch, who is said to have 'walked with God'?
 
C

Chuckz

Guest
Genesis 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

The outline of Biblical usage is here:

"to take, get, fetch, lay hold of, seize, receive, acquire, buy, bring, marry, take a wife, snatch, take away"

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon (blbclassic.org)

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Jude 1:4 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

My intent is to try to answer your questions and not to start a rapture or end times debate even though I believe it is a type of rapture.

We do know that Enoch did not experience the normal death process though his body may have died:

Hebrews 9:27 And G2532 as G2596 G3745 it is appointed G606 unto men G444 once G530 to die, G599 but G1161 after G3326 this G5124 the judgment: G2920

Its speculation if Enoch is one of the two witnesses because Enoch has to die.

Did Enoch and Elijah die and go to heaven? | NeverThirsty

Blue Letter Bible - Commentaries - David Guzik - David Guzik Study Guides (blbclassic.org)

"b. Enoch walked with God: Walking with God means walking by faith (2 Corinthians 5:7), walking in the light (1 John 1:5-7), and walking in agreement with God (Amos 3:3). After walking like this with God, it is as if one day God told Enoch, "You don't need to walk home. Why don't you just come home with Me?""

"i. Hebrews 11:5 tells us the foundation of Enoch's walk with God: By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, "and was not found, because God had taken him"; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. You can't walk with God, or please God, apart from faith."

-Ibid.
 
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SteveB

Well-known member
What explanation do we have for the disappearance of Enoch, who is said to have 'walked with God'?
I'm told that this is an old Jewish story.

Every day, Enoch would walk with God. After years of going to his own home every evening. On his last day, God told Enoch,
You know, we're closer to my home than yours. Why don't you just come home with me.

Every discussion I've ever heard about Enoch (for over 40 years now) is that he was the first person to be raptured by God.
 

Stephen

Active member
Enoch lived a life that was pleasing to God in a period of time where men's hearts were violence continually.

God moved him from one place to another, likely to save his life. He died in faith without having received the promises (Hebrews 11:5 and 11:13).


He lived in faith. He died in faith. He awaits the resurrection. Just like everybody else (including Christ though Christ is resurrected already).
 

Hawkeye

Active member
Enoch lived a life that was pleasing to God in a period of time where men's hearts were violence continually.

God moved him from one place to another, likely to save his life. He died in faith without having received the promises (Hebrews 11:5 and 11:13).


He lived in faith. He died in faith. He awaits the resurrection. Just like everybody else (including Christ though Christ is resurrected already).
You are correct! The act of translation means nothing but moving from one location to another.....to transport to another location.

We are not told that Enoch is in heaven. In fact just the opposite. Moses said that Enoch walked with God....and was not [Genesis 5:24]. If he were in heaven with Yahweh....wouldn't he still be walking with God?

Yeshua tells us that "No man has ascended to Heaven" [John 3;13]. Was He wrong?

The Greek word for "translate is "METATITHEMA and in [Acts 7:16] it simply says....Jacob was "carried over", i.e. transported to his final resting place.
 

Cynthia

Active member
Enoch lived a life that was pleasing to God in a period of time where men's hearts were violence continually.

God moved him from one place to another, likely to save his life. He died in faith without having received the promises (Hebrews 11:5 and 11:13).


He lived in faith. He died in faith. He awaits the resurrection. Just like everybody else (including Christ though Christ is resurrected already).
Sorry for the late response to your answer here. I have been working on a book which is coming along nicely.

Heb 11:5 (NKJ) by faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death 'and was not found, because God had taken him', for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb 11:13 (NKJ) These all died in faith, not having received the promises but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

So your position is that he along with all those mentioned prior to verse 13 died. What do you make of the statement in verse 5 that he did not see death? That is the one puzzling me. I do not think it merely means "he never saw it coming". Verse 5 makes a point to state that Enoch did not die, if that is the meaning of 'he did not see death'.

Also, the statement "he pleased God" seems to be a great factor in this puzzle.

I am not a proponent of the so-called Book of Enoch, it does not read as scripture. But no doubt was the effort to explain this passage.

I believe Elijah was taken away to another location (in the firey chariot) where he later died. The same could have happened with Enoch as you state, but why then the statement "so that he did not see death"? "So that" specifically implies the reason he was taken away? Perhaps as in "God took him away so that he did not die that day of imminent danger" Is this what you are saying? If so, I think I agree.
 

Cynthia

Active member
from got questions org:

The New Jerusalem will be fantastically huge. John records that the city is nearly 1,400 miles long, and it is as wide and as high as it is long—a perfect cube (Revelation 21:15–17). The city will also be dazzling in every way. It is lighted by the glory of God (verse 23). Its twelve foundations, bearing the names of the twelve apostles, are “decorated with every kind of precious stone” (verse 19). It has twelve gates, each a single pearl, bearing the names of the twelve tribes of Israel (verses 12 and 21). The street will be made of pure gold (verse 21).
so there was a huge city in Eden with 12 gates? No

That description in no way is compared to Eden. In any event, it is highly symbolic. Just as the saints are said to be stones built into the heavenly temple. Are we to be put in a car crusher and shaped into cubes then stacked into a grisly building? No. It is symbolism, not literal.
 

Cynthia

Active member
I don't care what Enoch was reported to have said.

The description in Revelation about the New Jerusalem does NOT compare it to Eden.
 

Cynthia

Active member
Well you can reread scripture then. Because prophets, the OT and all of scripture, and REV are consistent. And Eden is being restored. And New Eden is in fact Eden coming back.


A cursory review of a concordance shows the word Eden appears 19 times in the OT,
Genesis 6 times
2 Kings 1 time
2 Chronicles 2 times
Isaiah 2 times
Ezekiel 7 times
Joel 1 time

Zero times in the New Testament.

In none of the references is Eden compared to New Jerusalem.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
I'm told that this is an old Jewish story.

Every day, Enoch would walk with God. After years of going to his own home every evening. On his last day, God told Enoch,
You know, we're closer to my home than yours. Why don't you just come home with me.

Every discussion I've ever heard about Enoch (for over 40 years now) is that he was the first person to be raptured by God.

Enoch could not have been raptured. For he was taken to Paradise below the earth, not heaven.

Jesus was the first resurrection body. He still is the only one. Enoch did not yet receive a resurrection body as the Rapture will introduce for us.

With Enoch God was simply showing the angels a phenomena that the Lord had up his sleeve. He likes to make them think... and to scare Satan and his fake news media.

Don't worry.. Enoch did not complain! :giggle:
 

Timket

Active member
The Orthodox position is that the "Two Witnesses" in Revelations 11 will be Enoch and Elijah - they will return from wherever God has taken them (we don't know exactly), finish their earthly course since "it is appointed unto men once to die", and be resurrected.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
The Orthodox position is that the "Two Witnesses" in Revelations 11 will be Enoch and Elijah - they will return from wherever God has taken them (we don't know exactly), finish their earthly course since "it is appointed unto men once to die", and be resurrected.
Moses and Elijah.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Enoch could not have been raptured. For he was taken to Paradise below the earth, not heaven.
Rather curious.... Genesis says that--- And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.
The writer of Hebrews talks about him and says-- By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

So.... telling me what you really don't know beyond what we know just makes your claim false.


Jesus was the first resurrection body. He still is the only one. Enoch did not yet receive a resurrection body as the Rapture will introduce for us.
Take it up with God. Moses, and the writer of Hebrews tell us something different.



With Enoch God was simply showing the angels a phenomena that the Lord had up his sleeve. He likes to make them think... and to scare Satan and his fake news media.
and......

Don't worry.. Enoch did not complain! :giggle:
I never thought he did.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Rather curious.... Genesis says that--- And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.
The writer of Hebrews talks about him and says-- By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

So.... telling me what you really don't know beyond what we know just makes your claim false.



Take it up with God. Moses, and the writer of Hebrews tell us something different.




and......


I never thought he did.
You want to learn? Or, just sit on your opinions?

Jesus is the only one right now who is having a resurrection body. Just before the Rapture the dead in Christ will be resurrected then those of the church remaining on earth with be caught up in the air to be changed in the twinkling of an eye.


Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—
in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will
sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the
perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality."
1 Corinthians 15:51-53​


The dead in Christ will be resurrected first.

Then those remaining on the earth will be resurrected to meet them in the air - in the Rapture.


For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice
of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the
clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17​

Why don't you know this? Its in the Bible and frequently taught in good churches.


Also: No one was in Heaven until when Jesus ascended. Before then all OT saints needed to be held below the earth in a place sometimes referred to as Abraham's Side. Or, Abraham's bosom. You can Google that one and spend some time studying it if you wish.


grace and peace..........
 

Arch Stanton

Well-known member
The Orthodox position is that the "Two Witnesses" in Revelations 11 will be Enoch and Elijah - they will return from wherever God has taken them (we don't know exactly), finish their earthly course since "it is appointed unto men once to die", and be resurrected.
Tell that to Lazarus [just kidding :p ;)]
 

SteveB

Well-known member
You want to learn? Or, just sit on your opinions?

Jesus is the only one right now who is having a resurrection body. Just before the Rapture the dead in Christ will be resurrected then those of the church remaining on earth with be caught up in the air to be changed in the twinkling of an eye.


Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—
in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will
sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the
perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality."
1 Corinthians 15:51-53​


The dead in Christ will be resurrected first.

Then those remaining on the earth will be resurrected to meet them in the air - in the Rapture.


For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice
of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the
clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17​

Why don't you know this? Its in the Bible and frequently taught in good churches.


Also: No one was in Heaven until when Jesus ascended. Before then all OT saints needed to be held below the earth in a place sometimes referred to as Abraham's Side. Or, Abraham's bosom. You can Google that one and spend some time studying it if you wish.


grace and peace..........
Well, since you're obviously right, any other facts are immaterial.

Have a great life.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Well, since you're obviously right, any other facts are immaterial.

Have a great life.
There is a difference between being obviously right... and.... obviously wrong.

One can show how someone is obviously wrong, and not necessarily be right himself.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
There is a difference between being obviously right... and.... obviously wrong.

One can show how someone is obviously wrong, and not necessarily be right himself.
Well then, I'd say that the problem here isn't that you're ACTUALLY right.

JUST obviously.

Again.

Have a great day.
 

Harry Leggs

Super Member
A cursory review of a concordance shows the word Eden appears 19 times in the OT,
Genesis 6 times
2 Kings 1 time
2 Chronicles 2 times
Isaiah 2 times
Ezekiel 7 times
Joel 1 time

Zero times in the New Testament.

In none of the references is Eden compared to New Jerusalem.
Tree of life in both. Rivers, lack of death, and on it goes. The biggie here is tree of life.
 
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