Confess your sins.

Many Christian apologists accuse skeptics of refusing to convert because skeptics love their sin. As we all know, though, sin can be awfully darned pleasurable for anybody Christians included! I suppose that's why apologists are so sure sure what the motives of skeptics are. Anyway, the Bible tells us that we have all sinned, and that's why Jesus is so vital: We need him to forgive us for our sins no matter how much fun we may have had committing those sins. Also, Christians are commanded to be humble and confess their sins.

So what have you done that you need to be forgiven for?
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Many Christian apologists accuse skeptics of refusing to convert because skeptics love their sin. As we all know, though, sin can be awfully darned pleasurable for anybody Christians included! I suppose that's why apologists are so sure sure what the motives of skeptics are. Anyway, the Bible tells us that we have all sinned, and that's why Jesus is so vital: We need him to forgive us for our sins no matter how much fun we may have had committing those sins. Also, Christians are commanded to be humble and confess their sins.

So what have you done that you need to be forgiven for?
Sinned has an ED attached. It is past in all who God has taken away our sin. 1 John 3. He really does take away the sins of this world. But as you say man is so attached to their sin they will not allow God to releave them from it.
 
Sinned has an ED attached. It is past in all who God has taken away our sin. 1 John 3. He really does take away the sins of this world. But as you say man is so attached to their sin they will not allow God to releave them from it.
So what have you done that you need to be forgiven for?
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
So what have you done that you need to be forgiven for?
No need at all, I and the Father are one, He in me and I in Him. John 17. I was forgiven the very day I saw Him as He is and became like Him. 1 John 3. Perfect even as my father in heaven is perfect as Jesus commands of us.

How about you, what have you done that you need to be forgiven for?

If you are a sinner read 1 John 3:8, it tells clearly who you are and why one needs Gods forgivness as to be of 1 John 3:9.
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
No need at all, I and the Father are one, He in me and I in Him. John 17. I was forgiven the very day I saw Him as He is and became like Him. 1 John 3. Perfect even as my father in heaven is perfect as Jesus commands of us.

How about you, what have you done that you need to be forgiven for?

If you are a sinner read 1 John 3:8, it tells clearly who you are and why one needs Gods forgivness as to be of 1 John 3:9.
Gary are you saying that you never sin ?
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
I've confessed my sins of secret pride and self-righteousness many times on here, although that is not a comprehensive list, as sin can be very subtle and extensive, I do believe every single person has committed these. One could also point to a lack of love for God (called idolatry) and unbelief as also very pervasive sins. But there are thousands more.

Needless to say, Christians are loathe to admit what they've done, and they will disobey their own Bible to avoid it.

This is very judgmental and not my experience at all. On the contrary, I've found the opposite true.

If Christians disobey their Bible, then why should anybody else obey it?

This is piss poor logic, as the majority of your arguments are. If NO Christians obey the Bible, they will be judged and so will you.
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
Yes, that's what he's saying! Do you believe him?

Needless to say, Christians are loathe to admit what they've done, and they will disobey their own Bible to avoid it. If Christians disobey their Bible, then why should anybody else obey it?
No I believe 1 John 1:7-10 -2:2 is written to believers and we are commanded to confess our sins and not deny them.
 

Algernon

Active member
Many Christian apologists accuse skeptics of refusing to convert because skeptics love their sin.

Many Christians subscribe to the concepts of the "total depravity of man" and "vicarious atonement for the forgiveness of sins".
They believe it impossible for any human being to not sin. They believe that the penalty for whatever sins they commit have been paid by Jesus. Sound like a great deal for anyone who "loves their sin". Of course they'll make a big production out of protesting that this isn't the case, but their protests don't hold water. It's simply part and parcel of the whitewash on their tombs. The hypocrisy is palpable.
 
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No need at all, I and the Father are one, He in me and I in Him.
So you are without sin.
John 17. I was forgiven the very day I saw Him as He is and became like Him. 1 John 3.
So you are with sin.
Perfect even as my father in heaven is perfect as Jesus commands of us.
I can see that you are perfect. I believe you. God perfects many people.
How about you, what have you done that you need to be forgiven for?
I never said that I need to be forgiven. If I think I do need to be forgiven, then I ask the person I hurt to forgive me. It's a waste of time to ask an imaginary being for forgiveness.
If you are a sinner read 1 John 3:8, it tells clearly who you are and why one needs Gods forgivness as to be of 1 John 3:9.
You Christians really hate people. You're always denigrating them and libeling them. Contrary to what your religion claims, most people are good most of the time. I think that people are amazing. We've used our goodness to create a vast civilization. You should thank people for the good they've done.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I never said that I need to be forgiven. If I think I do need to be forgiven, then I ask the person I hurt to forgive me. It's a waste of time to ask an imaginary being for forgiveness.

God is not "imaginary".
It sounds like you "really hate" Christians. And you "really hate" God.
And you are denigrating Christians and libelling them.

You Christians really hate people. You're always denigrating them and libeling them.

Well, my "Hypocrisy meter" just broke!

Besides that, you are wrong on all your false accusations.

1) We don't "hate" people, we love them. It's not based on their nature, but based on how we treat them.

2) To "denigrate" is to criticize unfairly. And you haven't demonstrated that our opinion of humankind is "unfair". Look at kids in the "Terrible Two's" stage. Look at all those who are in prison. Look at all those who are shooting each other in gun fights and knife fights. Look at all the looters in California, brazenly walking into Walmarts (or is it Walgreens) and stealing tons of stuff, and simply walking right out the door. How many people steal from their workplace? How many people steal their employer's time in the workplace, playing on the Internet instead of doing their jobs? I could go on and on....

3) For something to be "libel", it needs to be (1) untrue (which you haven't proven), and (2) has to cost the person financially or damage their reputation (which you haven't proven).

Contrary to what your religion claims, most people are good most of the time.

That is your opinion.
Personal experience proves your opinion false.

You should thank people for the good they've done.

.... unless they're Christians, in which case it's okay to trash them and libel them, right?
Hypocrite.
(See? You are proof that people are basically bad.)
 
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Johnnybgood

Well-known member
You disobeyed God by refusing to confess your sins. If you really believe that God exists, then you would obey him. Christians appear to be unbelievers.
I confess my sins. Where did I say I do not confess my sins?
Please provide a link to where I said I do not confess my sins or apologize for accusing me of something I did not say.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Many Christians subscribe to the concepts of the "total depravity of man" and "vicarious atonement for the forgiveness of sins".

Yes, that's what the Bible teaches.

They believe it impossible for any human being to not sin.

Yes, that's what the Bible teaches.

They believe that the penalty for whatever sins they commit have been paid by Jesus.

Yes, that's what the Bible teaches.

Sound like a great deal for anyone who "loves their sin".

Not at all.
Every sin we commit results in more lashes across Christ's back.
Why would any Christian eagerly do something that results in our Lord's further pain and agony?

Of course they'll make a big production out of protesting that this isn't the case, but their protests don't hold water. It's simply part and parcel of the whitewash on their tombs. The hypocrisy is palpable.

The problem here is that you are projecting your OWN attitude onto Christians. It is YOUR belief that if there are no consequences for wrong-doing, then YOU would continue wrong-doing. But that is not the attitude of Christians. It is only your attitude, because that attitude came from your keyboard, not ours.

Okay, let me explain why you're wrong, and use alcohol as an example.
Suppose it was wrong to drink alcohol (which some Christians believe).
So we have two people who hold to this belief, that alcohol is objectively bad.
You assert that someone thinks, "Well, there's no consequences for drinking alcohol, so even though it's bad, I'm going to get drunk every night."

But in reality, we have people who believe alcohol is bad, and try to avoid it, and are frequently successful, but occasionally fall "off the wagon". This is how true Christians live their lives, but you refuse to charitably accept this as a possibility.

Another thing that you omit to consider (perhaps you aren't aware of it) is that when someone is a converted Christian, God has changed their heart to love God, and hate sin, so we have more incentive to avoid sin.

The irony here is that someone just tried to claim that "people are basically good", and "amazing", in fact, but you are claiming the opposite, and claiming that (at least) Christians are "really bad". And the fact that you would ASSUME Christians are really bad, and "hypocrites" even, makes YOU "really bad".

So much for, "people are basically good".
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
Needless to say,

Worthless rhetoric.
If it were truly "needless to say", you wouldn't have said it.

Christians are loathe to admit what they've done,

That's simply not true. We confess our sins regularly.

and they will disobey their own Bible to avoid it.

Yes, we disobey, but not willingly.
The Bible commands that we lead a perfectly sinless life.
That is God's standard.
But it is impossible for us to remain sinless.
That's not because we are "actively disobeying", but because we are limited in our abilities.

If Christians disobey their Bible, then why should anybody else obey it?

Of course, if what you claim were true, then there would be no reason for anyone to be a Christian. Yet since we continue to be Christians (and our ACTUAL testimony is contrary to how you falsely paint us), this proves you wrong.

Look, nobody's forcing you to be a Christian.
But I don't understand why you need to misrepresent us, especially if (as you falsely claim), "people are basically good".

If "people are basically good", why are you misrepresenting Christians?
That's not a "basically good" thing to do, is it?
 

Algernon

Active member
The problem here is that you are projecting your OWN attitude onto Christians. It is YOUR belief that if there are no consequences for wrong-doing, then YOU would continue wrong-doing. But that is not the attitude of Christians.
Actually, that's exactly what those "Christian apologists [who] accuse skeptics of refusing to convert because skeptics love their sin" are doing. How is that not THEIR attitude? How is that not THEIR belief? How is that not hypocrisy?

The fact is that those Christians who subscribe to the concepts of the "total depravity of man" and "vicarious atonement for the forgiveness of sins" for all intents and purposes have no real consequences for their wrong doing. Ultimately they believe they will be forgiven because the penalty for their sins have been paid. What's more, ultimately they believe that the sins that they DO commit are not their fault. Like I said, "Of course they'll make a big production out of protesting that this isn't the case, but their protests don't hold water.". Like yours don't hold water.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Actually, that's exactly what those "Christian apologists [who] accuse skeptics of refusing to convert because skeptics love their sin" are doing. How is that not THEIR attitude? How is that not THEIR belief? How is that not hypocrisy?

Unbelievers admittedly love their sin.
So how is that "hypocrisy"?

The fact is that those Christians who subscribe to the concepts of the "total depravity of man" and "vicarious atonement for the forgiveness of sins" for all intents and purposes have no real consequences for their wrong doing.

I guess it's like real life.
Some people need "consequences" to avoid doing bad things.
And some people simply avoid bad things because "it is the right thing to do".

Like the saying goes, "Morality is what you do when nobody's looking".

Ultimately they believe they will be forgiven because the penalty for their sins have been paid.

You DON'T KNOW what "they believe".
That is nothing more than a self-serving ASSUMPTION.

What's more, ultimately they believe that the sins that they DO commit are not their fault.

You DON'T KNOW what "they believe".
That is nothing more than a self-serving ASSUMPTION.

Like I said, "Of course they'll make a big production out of protesting that this isn't the case, but their protests don't hold water.".

If you could read our minds, you would know exactly how WRONG you are.
But since you can't, you simply pretend you are accurately representing us, when you're not.
 

Algernon

Active member
Unbelievers admittedly love their sin.
So how is that "hypocrisy"?
I explained the hypocrisy in my post. Why are you pretending that I didn't? You've created a straw man.

I guess it's like real life.
Some people need "consequences" to avoid doing bad things.
And some people simply avoid bad things because "it is the right thing to do".

Like the saying goes, "Morality is what you do when nobody's looking".

That's right. There's no evidence that Christians are any more moral than non-Christians. So much for the belief that "God has changed their heart to love God, and hate sin". If that were the case, they would be much more moral than non-Christians. They aren't, though some seem to like to believe that they are.

You DON'T KNOW what "they believe".
That is nothing more than a self-serving ASSUMPTION.



You DON'T KNOW what "they believe".
That is nothing more than a self-serving ASSUMPTION.



If you could read our minds, you would know exactly how WRONG you are.
But since you can't, you simply pretend you are accurately representing us, when you're not.
No need to read minds. I have friends that are Christians with whom I have discussed this topic in depth.

The irony is that the "self-serving ASSUMPTION" lies with those who ASSUME that their interpretation of the Bible is correct in believing the concepts of the "total depravity of man" and "vicarious atonement for the forgiveness of sins". Those are incredibly self-serving assumptions.
 
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