Baloney! "For it is by GRACE YOU ARE SAVED; through faith--and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God--and NOT BY WORKS, so no one may boast."
What part of "saved by grace through faith and not by works" do you NOT understand???
What part of "through faith" don't you understand?
Bonnie, in every instance of faith, we always see works. You yourself pretty much agreed (you'll probably disagree that you agreed and I'm okay with that, as soon as you can show an instance from the scriptures where there is an example of faith without works).
As I stated in another thread, faith, in its simplest terms, is hope. Hope is useless if we don't act on it. A drowning person might have hope to be saved and should someone throw that person a life ring. His hope is useless if he doesn't reach for that life ring. That is what faith is without works. It is hope without action which is why faith without works is dead which is why grace is only obtainable through works that exhibit our faith in connection to Christ.
But you don't understand that. I've spelled this out in detail from Eph 2:10, that being born of Christ results in good works. If one is not walking in the light of good works, then one cannot claim being born of Christ. And, mind you, I'm not talking about extraordinary works, I'm talking about simple things, like seeking forgiveness for sins and striving to restore good faith with those we've harmed. Like being a peacemaker. Like being meek. And these are just a few. But they are the works of a disciple who believes in Christ.
Discussing these things with you all seems to be a hopeless endeavor. The vitriol we find here prevents our critics from seeing the obvious truth, even though the reality is that they believe it also. They know a person who does evil works, even though he claims he believes in Christ, cannot be saved. They know unrepentant murderer, adulterer, thief, covetous person cannot be saved because they are not born of Christ. They know this, but for the sake of their animus, they will not admit it.
Some come close, however; but they insist, again for no reason at all, that we believe the WoW, magic underwear, temple worship are all points that are required for salvation. They equate that to the works that we must do and it is false. It is a lie they have drummed up to fuel their animus. The fact is, most people who will enter into life in God's kingdom being like him, will have never done any of these things. This is a fact and yet, they continue to spin their web of darkness because it suites their agenda, win at all costs, even at the cost of being wrong. They don't care as long as they can continue the facade that they aren't wrong.
The fact is, the works that Paul is referring to is spelled out in Eph 2:11. One does not have to go far to find it. It is the works of the Law and is specifically contrasted against good works. Works is obviously necessary, some work is because if works were not necessary, then everyone would be saved. But we know that not everyone is saved. The question is, what is the difference between a saved person and a person who isn't saved. No matter how you look at it, it comes down to works. Deny it all you want, change the meaning of the word works, but it still boils down to being about something that we did differently than those who don't receive the promises.
Works are the efforts one makes to take hold of the promises we hope for. The promises we hope for is called faith. They are unseen but we have the assurance that they are true. Without works, faith is as non-existent as is the hope of a drowning man who refuses to reach for the hope he has in being saved.
That's the part you all understand but refuse to acquiesce to because of your stubborn willful blindness.
