Contrary to the ECF, the Apostle says Humans, (and therefore the Human will), are slaves (Rom 6:30-22)

Johnnybgood said:
Wow Calvin said God is the author of evil not just the cause of it .
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So you're going to blindly accept a cut-and-paste quote with multiple sets of ellipses, which cannot be checked for accuracy in comparison to the actual text that we have elsewhere (such as on the Monergism website)?

And have you read the entire treatise yet, or are you simply jumping to conclusions?
 
Theo1689 said:
So you're going to blindly accept a cut-and-paste quote with multiple sets of ellipses, which cannot be checked for accuracy in comparison to the actual text that we have elsewhere (such as on the Monergism website)?

And have you read the entire treatise yet, or are you simply jumping to conclusions?
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Er I see but one set
 
Johnnybgood said:
That seems like a distinction without a difference . Can you talk more about the differences ? Thank you
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Gen. 50:20 As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.

What do you think the above means?

I think it means that the act itself wasn't sin, but it was sin for the brothers, because of their intent. But it was good for God, because of HIS intent.
 
Johnnybgood said:
No that’s not what Calvin said that Tom quoted .
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Are you honestly confusing discussions, or are you simply playing games again?

ReverendRV said there is a difference between "evil" and "sin".
You claimed that was "a distinction without a difference", and asked for clarification.
I quoted Gen. 50:20 because I believe it DEMONSTRATES the difference YOU ASKED for.

This has NOTHING to do with "Calvin".
This has NOTHING to do with "Tom".

So why are you playing these stupid games?
 
Johnnybgood said:
That seems like a distinction without a difference . Can you talk more about the differences ? Thank you
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I can, for a little while; Wrestling will be on soon...

Evil and Sin are two different words, which do not mean the same thing; so When Calvin says God Authors Evil, Sin doesn't have to be Evil's Antonym. When Isaiah teaches us about God, by saying “I form the light and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.”; he uses the same word for Evil that the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil uses. God Creates Darkness by being Light, and Matter casts the shadows. God Creates Evil in the same way, by being the standard of Righteousness we Fall short of. God surreptitiuously Authors Evil; like Evil was Authored by Joseph's brothers when they and God Meant the same thing to happen...
 
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Johnnybgood said:
Grasping at straws
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So allow me to ask you for clarification...

You don't think it's important that a posted quote cannot be confirmed as accurate, you are just going to believe it anyway?

You don't think it's important to know what was missing in those sets of "ellipses", which might have SIGNIFICANTLY changed the context and meaning? (You seem to think the context is important for 1 John, but apparrently not for Calvin. Would you mind explaining the apparent hypocrisy?)

You don't think it's important to read the ENTIRE text of a work before jumping to conclusions about a small section?

I await your clarification...
 
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Johnnybgood said:
Then quote a source that disproves what he posted .
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Show me Tom's quote from "A Treatise on the Eternal Predestination of God, from the following source, or another source of your choice.

A Treatise of the Eternal Predestination of God by John Calvin | Monergism

NINE years have now elapsed since Albertus Pighius, the Campanian, a man of evidently phrensied audacity, attempted, at the same time, and in the same book, to
www.monergism.com

I couldn't find it.
Maybe you'll have better luck.

Johnnybgood said:
That should be really simple for a guy like you .
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What's that supposed to mean?
 
ReverendRV said:
I can, for a little while; Wrestling will be on soon...

Evil and Sin are two different words, which do not mean the same thing; so When Calvin says God Authors Evil, Sin doesn't have to be Evil's Antonym. When Isaiah teaches us about God, by saying “I form the light and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.”; he uses the same word for Evil that the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil uses. God Creates Darkness by being Light, and Matter casts the shadows. God Creates Evil in the same way, by being the standard of Righteousness we Fall short of. God surreptitiuously Authors Evil; like Evil was Authored by Joseph's brothers when they and God Meant the same thing to happen...
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They can refer to the same thing depending on context

e·vil
[ˈēvəl]

ADJECTIVE
  1. profoundly immoral and wicked:
    "his evil deeds" ·
    [more]
    synonyms:
    wicked · bad · wrong · morally wrong · wrongful · immoral · sinful·
    [more]
NOUN
  1. profound immorality and wickedness, especially when regarded as a supernatural force:
    "the world is stalked by relentless evil" ·
    [more]
    synonyms:
    wickedness · bad · badness · wrong · wrongdoing · sin · sinfulness·[more]


    b    ut again that is determined by context
 
Theo1689 said:
So you're going to blindly accept a cut-and-paste quote with multiple sets of ellipses, which cannot be checked for accuracy in comparison to the actual text that we have elsewhere (such as on the Monergism website)?

And have you read the entire treatise yet, or are you simply jumping to conclusions?
Click to expand...
Here is the quote from the desiring God website without the ellipse

Calvin denies that there is any “mere permission” in God:

From this it is easy to conclude how foolish and frail is the support of divine justice afforded by the suggestion that evils come to be not by [God’s] will, but merely by his permission. Of course, so far as they are evils, which men perpetrate with their evil mind, as I shall show in greater detail shortly, I admit that they are not pleasing to God. But it is a quite frivolous refuge to say that God otiosely [= idly] permits them, when Scripture shows Him not only willing but the author of them.1

Does God Permit Sin? | Desiring God
 
Theo1689 said:
Show me Tom's quote from "A Treatise on the Eternal Predestination of God, from the following source, or another source of your choice.
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From desiring God

Calvin denies that there is any “mere permission” in God:

From this it is easy to conclude how foolish and frail is the support of divine justice afforded by the suggestion that evils come to be not by [God’s] will, but merely by his permission. Of course, so far as they are evils, which men perpetrate with their evil mind, as I shall show in greater detail shortly, I admit that they are not pleasing to God. But it is a quite frivolous refuge to say that God otiosely [= idly] permits them, when Scripture shows Him not only willing but the author of them.1

Does God Permit Sin? | Desiring God
 
fltom said:
From desiring God

Calvin denies that there is any “mere permission” in God:

From this it is easy to conclude how foolish and frail is the support of divine justice afforded by the suggestion that evils come to be not by [God’s] will, but merely by his permission. Of course, so far as they are evils, which men perpetrate with their evil mind, as I shall show in greater detail shortly, I admit that they are not pleasing to God. But it is a quite frivolous refuge to say that God otiosely [= idly] permits them, when Scripture shows Him not only willing but the author of them.1

Does God Permit Sin? | Desiring God
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Seems The desiring God website got it John Frame's - the doctrine of God

From this it is easy to conclude how foolish and frail is the support of divine justice afforded by the suggestion that evils come to he not by [God's] will, but merely by his permission. Of course, so far as they are evils, which then perpetrate with their evil mind, as I shall show in greater detail shortly, I admit that they are not pleasing to God. But it is a quite frivolous refuge to say that God otiosely permits them, when Scripture shows Him not only willing but the author of them.
 
fltom said:
Here is the quote from the desiring God website without the ellipse

Calvin denies that there is any “mere permission” in God:

From this it is easy to conclude how foolish and frail is the support of divine justice afforded by the suggestion that evils come to be not by [God’s] will, but merely by his permission. Of course, so far as they are evils, which men perpetrate with their evil mind, as I shall show in greater detail shortly, I admit that they are not pleasing to God. But it is a quite frivolous refuge to say that God otiosely [= idly] permits them, when Scripture shows Him not only willing but the author of them.1

Does God Permit Sin? | Desiring God
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Ditto
 
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