PeanutGallery
Well-known member
That's why "you guys" need to read and study the Bible; then "you guys" can understand that fallen man can still hear, head, and call out for mercy to God's only begotten Son who takes away the sin of the world.
Conversion, the result of regeneration.
- Thread starter Carbon
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Ladodgers6
Guest
Don't talk about it, show me in Scripture.
PeanutGallery
Well-known member
Show me from the Doctrine of sin, the Fall of man.
Carbon
Super Member
Why are you trying to speak for Jesus? Let’s let scripture speak for him. Your way off and in error
preacher4truth
Well-known member
Nope, being made alive comes before the by grace are you saved, and even faith comes after this...Ephesians 2:5ff.
You're still teaching humanism, decisionalism, and saved by what you did. Believing doesn't save us.
Bottom line? You know what a few verses say, but not what they mean.
preacher4truth
Well-known member
The above is rich because the person making the post is blinded to the fact he is teaching hand-me-down humanism and decisionalism which came into the church via Charles G. Finney.
Finney, a man who crept in unnoticed; Jude 4, and is still deceiving many today,.
Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
John 20:31 is scriptural truth that one believes before they receive life through Jesus. Your belief is error and not scriptural. Again give me one verse from the gospels that believing doesn’t go before being born again.
Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
I quoted a teaching of Jesus that you obviously do not believe. You should take your issue up with Him not me.
Theophilus
Well-known member
Exactly
Theophilus
Well-known member
Yes faith comes before life . Jesus and the doctrine of the Apostles teach us that us the biblical order that opposes the Calvinists false teaching on regeneration.
David1701
Well-known member
A) Fallen man hates the Light and will not come to it.
John 3:19,20 (Webster)
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men have loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Contrast that with someone who has been born of God.
John 3:21 (Webster) But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
B) Fallen man is hostile to God and cannot please him (repentance and faith please God).
Rom. 8:7,8 (Webster)
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. {the carnal...: Gr. the minding of the flesh}
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Again, contrast this with someone who has been born of God.
Rom. 8:9 (Webster) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. Now if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is not his.
C) This is why Jesus told Nicodemus that you (plural) MUST be born again, in order to see and enter the kingdom of God. We enter the kingdom of God, through faith in Jesus Christ.
John 3:3-7 (Webster)
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he can not see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he can not enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
And what did Jesus teach so that one might be born again
John 3:14–18 (KJV 1900) — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
there is no life apart from faith in Christ
John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
1 John 5:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
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Ladodgers6
Guest
See my brothers, they don't have a clue about the Doctrine of Sin and the fall of man. This is why they only have Rosie color lens view of mankind. People are good, and God see this, and because of this goodness in mankind God saves them because of it. How ridiculous that they don't know about the Doctrine of sin, but say that people need to believe Christ, for what I say. There's no sin or fall in their view, so live as you wan to, there's no sin or hell for that matter.
But I'll give you a clue Genesis 3.
But I'll give you a clue Genesis 3.
CookedGoose
Well-known member
Why do you keep repeating this Tom? This wasn't His answer.
His answer was "the wind blows were it wishes, so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
preacher4truth
Well-known member
Because he believes the "man" part does away with the "God" "part."
Pitting Scripture against Scripture.
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Ladodgers6
Guest
Kampioen, thanks for your honest dialogue. When I was an Arminian which teaches Synergistic Theology, it teaches that every sinner is given Prevenient Grace (but this Prevenient Grace does not save the sinner) rather it provides as you say enlightenment, which then places the choice on the sinner to believe or reject God and his Gospel. It's called resistible Grace.
I hope we both can have a civil and respectable conversation, and say what we want without either one of us getting mad or upset. That's what these debates are about. I once thought as you do, but after doing my own homework, I came to conclusion of Scripture, that no sinner seeks after God, that they don't possess any desire or love for God apart from his effectual Grace, not Prevenient Grace that accomplishes nothing but a facade; a mirage that isn't there.
So please allow me to ask you some more honest questions, these are not gotcha questions, I just want to know your thoughts.
If every sinner is given this Prevenient Grace that enlightens them to the truth, and what happen to them if they accept and go to Heaven or reject/resist this truth and know the consequences of this decision to go to hell and being punished and tormented for eternity. Who ever want to reject God after being enlighten to the truth? If Prevenient Grace opens the mind and heart of the sinner to fully understand the truth of God, why would they reject God?
And please provide Scriptural evidence of this teaching of partial Prevenient Grace?
Thank you.
I hope we both can have a civil and respectable conversation, and say what we want without either one of us getting mad or upset. That's what these debates are about. I once thought as you do, but after doing my own homework, I came to conclusion of Scripture, that no sinner seeks after God, that they don't possess any desire or love for God apart from his effectual Grace, not Prevenient Grace that accomplishes nothing but a facade; a mirage that isn't there.
So please allow me to ask you some more honest questions, these are not gotcha questions, I just want to know your thoughts.
If every sinner is given this Prevenient Grace that enlightens them to the truth, and what happen to them if they accept and go to Heaven or reject/resist this truth and know the consequences of this decision to go to hell and being punished and tormented for eternity. Who ever want to reject God after being enlighten to the truth? If Prevenient Grace opens the mind and heart of the sinner to fully understand the truth of God, why would they reject God?
And please provide Scriptural evidence of this teaching of partial Prevenient Grace?
Thank you.
Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
Some
Some will never understand the “biblical “ meaning of belief. Believing means you humbled yourself before God acknowledged and owned that you have sinned against Him, asking for His forgiveness, knowing that your only hope and trust is in what Jesus did for you by His life( sinless), death, resurrection ,ascension , and return. There is a mental assent without faith which does not produce fruit, and then there is “ belief” which eternally changes a life making the believer an adopted child of Almighty God for eternity. The only true test for one’s self is are you being a light in a dark world. Jesus said no man lights a candle then hides it under a bushel. If you are born again you are telling others about Jesus , and or you are only lying to yourself and running from God( truth).
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Ladodgers6
Guest
It's because they can't argue with Scripture so they divert from the truth. Here's show them this.
1 Cor. 12:3 Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit.
Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
Right after you explain John 3:16 which you don’t understand.