Conversion, the result of regeneration.

Carbon said:
If I believe the Bible?
What, I will believe as you say? Or I'm
Not a believer? Are you really that arrogant?
Are you a modern day prophet?
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You were given the verse



John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
regeneration makes one alive

faith precedes life

there is no way to escape it
 
PeanutGallery said:
We are all sinners, until God regenerates those who believe.
Perfect upright Job, just Lot, just and perfect Noah, faithful Abraham, just and devout Simeon, the publican, oh yeah, can't forget integrity of Abimelech, Lydia who worshiped God, devout Cornelius who feared God; and more listed in Heb 11.
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They were all born again, as evidenced by their faith and acceptable worship of God. The unregenerate do not have faith, nor is any "worship" of theirs acceptable to God.

Old Covenant saints were saved by grace, through faith, just as we are. They were not saved because of faith, but through faith, just as we are.

The OC saints who were alive when the New Covenant began (e.g. Lydia and Cornelius) still had to come into the New Covenant. They already had OC salvation, but had to believe in Jesus as the promised Messiah, which, of course, they did, it being worked in them by the grace of God.
 
Carbon said:
Your statement “faith precedes life” has nothing to do with the verse you pasted.
I know your trying very hard to manipulate scripture to support your view. But you can’t do it.

The gospel is foolishness to the world and those who are perishing. But it is what we must believe. And when our eyes are open through regeneration, we find ourselves believing.

The true gospel is as the reformed teach. But to you it is foolishness. What does that tell ya?
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The other poster seems to think that faith proceeds from death (all that proceeds from death is dead, e.g. the dead religion of freewillism), rather than from new life.
 
Carbon said:
Your statement “faith precedes life” has nothing to do with the verse you pasted.
I know your trying very hard to manipulate scripture to support your view. But you can’t do it.

The gospel is foolishness to the world and those who are perishing. But it is what we must believe. And when our eyes are open through regeneration, we find ourselves believing.

The true gospel is as the reformed teach. But to you it is foolishness. What does that tell ya?
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You are in denial

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
 
fltom said:
You are in denial
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Nope. Stop lying to yourself Tom.
fltom said:
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
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I pray God may open your eyes to these profound truths.

1 Cor 1:18,
For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
 
GeneZ said:
If the Holy Spirit did not suppress the desires of the flesh over our soul when the Gospel was given? No one would believe.
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And which translations of the Bible is this from? New world translations?
Scripture does not teach such things.
GeneZ said:
When presented the Gospel? God supplies his enabling power of grace as to suppress our flesh. With our flesh locked up and silenced,
that grace enables so that our soul was made free to choose for itself what to believe.
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For a free willer, you contradict yourself. Flesh is locked up and silenced? Really?
That grace enables the soul to choose for itself? Really?
How so if the flesh is locked up?
Coming from a free willer it sure don’t sound like free will to me.
GeneZ said:
When under his grace to decide? A soul remains free to reject the Gospel. Its just no longer the flesh determining the outcome.
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Book, chapter, verse….please.
GeneZ said:
Grace does not guarantee that one will believe. Grace only guarantees that one is being made free to make his own choice.
A choice without the flesh over riding our soul's thinking which would have defaulted to rejecting God.

God's foreknowledge? God foreknew those being enabled by grace how they would choose to believe. A choice made while that person was being given the grace needed to be made free from the tyranny of their flesh.

Without grace being supplied? No one could believe.
With grace supplied? Those who reject are left without excuse.

grace and peace .........
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?
 
Carbon said:
When God gives us what?
A “human” spirit?
How many of you other free willers agree with this?
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Try refuting it?

Rather than doing no work and attempting to stir up a mob.

May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. ​
May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming ​
of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thes 5:23​
​
Regenerate man is trichotomous. Body, soul, and human spirit.

Unregenerate man is only dichotomous. Being only body and soul.

1 Corinthians 2:14 speaks of the dichotomous man, having no human spirit.
For what got termed "the natural man" in the Greek is psuchikos.
Psuchikos means 'soulish.' Having no human spirit! https://biblehub.com/greek/5591.htm

​
But the 'soulish' man receives not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him; ​
neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Cor 2:14​
​
​
Also... The carnal believer cuts himself off from God's guiding spiritual fellowship with the Spirit, and he can end up rationalizing Scripture to suit his natural world view of religion. This carnal one becomes like "an informed" unbeliever in his inability to correctly think with Scripture.
 
Carbon said:
And which translations of the Bible is this from? New world translations?
Scripture does not teach such things.
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Its not some translation. Its thinking with God's Word by means of understanding what it teaches.


"And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight."

Philippians 19​


Babies need to be spoon fed. They can not think with insight. Some believers remain babies and never grow because of rigid thinking.

Mature Christians will feed themselves in their thinking by means of all the sound doctrine they have learned that the Holy Spirit can apply.


grace and peace ........
 
GeneZ said:
Try refuting it?
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Refute what?
Is this a game to you?
GeneZ said:
Rather than doing no work and attempting to stir up a mob.

May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. ​
May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming ​
of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thes 5:23​
​
Regenerate man is trichotomous. Body, soul, and human spirit.

Unregenerate man is only dichotomous. Being only body and soul.

1 Corinthians 2:14 speaks of the dichotomous man, having no human spirit.
For what got termed "the natural man" in the Greek is psuchikos.
Psuchikos means 'soulish.' Having no human spirit! https://biblehub.com/greek/5591.htm

​
But the 'soulish' man receives not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him; ​
neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Cor 2:14​
​
​
Also... The carnal believer cuts himself off from God's guiding spiritual fellowship with the Spirit, and he can end up rationalizing Scripture to suit his natural world view of religion. This carnal one becomes like "an informed" unbeliever in his inability to correctly think with Scripture.
Click to expand...
 
GeneZ said:
Its not some translation. Its thinking with God's Word by means of understanding what it teaches.


"And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight."

Philippians 19​


Babies need to be spoon fed. They can not think with insight. Some believers remain babies and never grow because of rigid thinking.

Mature Christians will feed themselves in their thinking by means of all the sound doctrine they have learned that the Holy Spirit can apply.


grace and peace ........
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They have a steady diet of gerber and enfamil
 
Leatherneck0311 said:
The pure gospel that Paul preached ? Do you believe Paul preached a different gospel than Jesus or the other apostles preached ? By Paul’s own explanation if he preached a different gospel than was paid for by Jesus and taught by Jesus he(Paul) himself would be accursed.
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Who blinded Saul and commanded him to go and preach his Gospel. And now Paul warns and curses those who preach another gospel, right?

Galatians 1: 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
 
Ladodgers6 said:
Who blinded Saul and commanded him to go and preach his Gospel. And now Paul warns and curses those who preach another gospel, right?

Galatians 1: 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
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Do Calvinists and Arminians preach the same gospel ?
 
Ladodgers6 said:
Who blinded Saul and commanded him to go and preach his Gospel. And now Paul warns and curses those who preach another gospel, right?

Galatians 1: 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
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Paul never taught a different gospel than any of the apostles according to scripture.
Unchecked Copy Box
Gal 1:23 - But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preaches the faith which once he destroyed.
 
Carbon said:
Book, chapter and verse please.
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If you are willing to sit and learn for possibly ten hours of recorded exegetical teaching?

Some answers require and acquired depth to grasp. Not always possible to give some simple answer when the answer requires a new learning curve to develop a frame of reference.

If you love to study and learn? You might find yourself enjoying being exposed to what not many teachers are qualified to teach.
Just ask.
 
Carbon said:


For a free willer, you contradict yourself. Flesh is locked up and silenced? Really?
That grace enables the soul to choose for itself? Really?
How so if the flesh is locked up?
Coming from a free willer it sure don’t sound like free will to me.
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Stop labeling and putting me in a box. It might help you realize that not all who disagree with you are from the same cookie cutter.

Grace makes a believer able to be free.

I never said we have a free will in regards to spiritual matters from birth.
 
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