Cornelius and the Gentiles with him had the gift of the Holy Spirit poured on them (Acts 10:45)

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Fred

Well-known member
Acts 10:45
All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. (NASB)

Since these Gentiles had "the gift of the Holy Spirit" poured[1] on them proves they were saved before they were water baptized (Acts 10:48).
1. New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (NIDNTT): Yet the one great gift which he gives to his church is his Spirit (2 Cor. 1:22; 5:5; 1 Thess. 4:8; Lk. 11:13; cf. Acts 2:38; 8:17; 10:47; 19:6; also the OT quotations in Acts 2:17 f. [Joel 2:28 ff.] and Heb. 8:10 [Jer. 31:33]). (2:42, Gift, H. Vorlander)
2. New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (NIDNTT): For Paul it was precisely the gift of the Spirit which distinguished the Christian from the Jew, the new age from the old (Rom. 2:29; 7:6; 2 Cor. 3:6-8; Gal. 4:29; Phil. 3:3). (3:701, Spirit, J. D. G. Dunn)
3. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT): The very same gift of the greatest thing that man can receive, the gift of the Holy Spirit, accomplishes and bears witness to the equality of the recipients before God, and establishes the unity of the Church. (3:349, isos, Stahlin)
4. Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: respecting God, who by the gift of the Holy Spirit indicates who are his, pass., Eph. 1:13; 4:30; absol., mid. with tina, 2 Co. 1:22 (sphragizō, page 609).[2]

It is worth noting that "the gift of the Holy Spirit" the Gentiles possessed (Acts 10:45) is the same indwelling gift of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2:38.
1. BDAG (3rd Edition): receive the Spirit as a gift Ac. 2:38; cp. 10:45 (dōrea, page 266).
2. Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament (EDNT): The usage of dōrea in the NT is concentrated on the gracious gift which has already been given by God, namely, Christ (John 4:10), the Spirit (Acts 2:38; 8:20; 10:45; 11:17), or "righteousness" (Rom. 5:15, 17) (1:364, dōrea, G. Schneider).
3. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT): In Ac. the Spirit is called the dōrea of God in 2:38; 8:20; 10:45; 11:17 (2:167, dōrea, Buchsel).
4. Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: with an epexegetical gen. of the thing given, the Holy Ghost, Ac 2:38, 10:45 (dōrea, page 161).
5. Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words: In Acts 2:38 "the gift of the Holy Ghost", the clause is epexegetical, the gift being the Holy Ghost Himself; cf. 10:45; 11:17 (Gift - dōrea, page 477)
6. A Greek and English Lexicon of the New Testament: gen. of that in which the gift consists; Acts 2:38 and 10:45 (dōrea, page 196).


[1] For more proof that the gift of the Holy Spirit being poured on these Gentiles proves they were saved before their water baptism see here:
https://forums.carm.org/threads/baptism-after-salvation.5614/page-65#post-815899

[2] See Ephesians 1:13 coupled with Acts 15:7-8 here:
https://forums.carm.org/threads/cornelius-and-the-gentiles-with-him-had-the-holy-spirit-fall-on-them-acts-10-44-11-15.10788/
 
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1

101G

Well-known member
1 Corinthians 14:21 "In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord."
1 Corinthians 14:22 "Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe."
"JESUS, the Lord the Holy Spirit"​
let's look at the constructive gifts that indwell instead of falling upon for a sign. THE LORD JESUS IS THE MANIFESTATION OF THESE GIFTS.
John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." John 14:19 "Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also." John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you."John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."(STOP THE PRESS. THE LORD JESUS SAID HE, HE, HE WOULD

MANIFEST HIMSELF UNTO US. listen to the very next question,

John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?"

let's see this manifestation of the Lord Jesus,
1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal." THE MANIFESTATION OF "WHO?" ..... JESUS. THE SPIRIT. READ IT AGAIN. remember what "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?" let's see the MANIFESTATION OF the Lord JESUS.

1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;" the Pastoral/Bishop Gift)
1 Corinthians 12:9 "To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;"
1 Corinthians 12:10 "To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:"
1 Corinthians 12:11 "But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."

why is speaking in tongue is listed LAST?

:ninja:
 
F

Fred

Well-known member
101G said:
as you said, "Who cares". ....... LOL,

:ninja:
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Because it doesn't change this:

The fact that these Gentiles spoke in tongues before they were water baptized proves they were saved before they were water baptized.
 
1

101G

Well-known member
Fred said:
Because it doesn't change this:

The fact that these Gentiles spoke in tongues before they were water baptized proves they were saved before they were water baptized.
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I could care less if they went to the moon and back. had they repented first? that's what have them .... "TO BE SAVED"...

now, you can say anything you want, but no repentance, no Salvation..... good day. :cool:

:ninja:
 
1

101G

Well-known member
Fred said:
Obviously, they did because they were given the Holy Spirit.
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I know they repented first .... Obviously, we have the record to prove it....... (y) it called the BIBLE, read it sometimes ..... with the Holy Spirit, who is the Lord JESUS GOD almighty.

Now, see, just talk to the 🖐 ok.

:ninja:

PS I just Love this..... (smile).
 
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greatdivide46

New Member
Fred said:
Acts 10:45
All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. (NASB)

Since these Gentiles had "the gift of the Holy Spirit" poured[1] on them proves they were saved before they were water baptized (Acts 10:48).
1. New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (NIDNTT): Yet the one great gift which he gives to his church is his Spirit (2 Cor. 1:22; 5:5; 1 Thess. 4:8; Lk. 11:13; cf. Acts 2:38; 8:17; 10:47; 19:6; also the OT quotations in Acts 2:17 f. [Joel 2:28 ff.] and Heb. 8:10 [Jer. 31:33]). (2:42, Gift, H. Vorlander)
2. New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (NIDNTT): For Paul it was precisely the gift of the Spirit which distinguished the Christian from the Jew, the new age from the old (Rom. 2:29; 7:6; 2 Cor. 3:6-8; Gal. 4:29; Phil. 3:3). (3:701, Spirit, J. D. G. Dunn)
3. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT): The very same gift of the greatest thing that man can receive, the gift of the Holy Spirit, accomplishes and bears witness to the equality of the recipients before God, and establishes the unity of the Church. (3:349, isos, Stahlin)
4. Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: respecting God, who by the gift of the Holy Spirit indicates who are his, pass., Eph. 1:13; 4:30; absol., mid. with tina, 2 Co. 1:22 (sphragizō, page 609).[2]
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I'm not sure that have the gift of the Holy Spirit poured all over one is an evidence of salvation. I will admit, though, that receiving the Holy Spirit is necessary for salvation. But receiving the Holy Spirit affects the inward aspect of a person while having the gift of the Holy Spirit poured on one affects the outward aspects of a person.

I think the Gentiles had the gift of the Holy Spirit poured out on them to convince the Jews present that God intended for them to be part of the church as well as Jews. And it worked because Peter had them baptized which is when they received the Holy Spirit for the purpose of salvation according to God's promise in Acts 2:38.
 
F

Fred

Well-known member
greatdivide46 said:
I'm not sure that have the gift of the Holy Spirit poured all over one is an evidence of salvation. I will admit, though, that receiving the Holy Spirit is necessary for salvation. But receiving the Holy Spirit affects the inward aspect of a person while having the gift of the Holy Spirit poured on one affects the outward aspects of a person.
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The gift of the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit.

greatdivide46 said:
I think the Gentiles had the gift of the Holy Spirit poured out on them to convince the Jews present that God intended for them to be part of the church as well as Jews.
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If one has the gift of the Holy Spirit they are already part of the church. See the OP.
 
F

Fred

Well-known member
greatdivide46 said:
Would you agree that the church began on the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2?
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Yes.
See footnote #1.

𝅴 - Cornelius and the Gentiles with him received the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:47)

Acts 10:47-48 (47) “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” (48) And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days. (NASB) Since these Gentiles received...
forums.carm.org



Both the Jews (Acts 2:17) and the Gentiles (Acts 10:45) had the Holy Spirit "poured" upon them.
When this took place were both groups "in the Spirit"?
 
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greatdivide46

New Member
So if receiving the Holy Spirit makes one a member of the church and the church didn't start until Pentecost, what were the disciples members of between the time they received the Holy Spirit in John 20:22 and the Holy Spirit was poured out on them at Pentecost in Acts 2?
 
F

Fred

Well-known member
greatdivide46 said:
So if receiving the Holy Spirit makes one a member of the church and the church didn't start until Pentecost, what were the disciples members of between the time they received the Holy Spirit in John 20:22 and the Holy Spirit was poured out on them at Pentecost in Acts 2?
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See footnote 2.

𝅴 - Cornelius and the Gentiles with him had the Holy Spirit fall on them (Acts 10:44; 11:15)

Acts 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. (NASB) Acta 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. (NASB)[1] 1. Citing Acts 11:15 the New International...
forums.carm.org
 
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greatdivide46

New Member
Fred said:
See footnote 2.

𝅴 - Cornelius and the Gentiles with him had the Holy Spirit fall on them (Acts 10:44; 11:15)

Acts 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. (NASB) Acta 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. (NASB)[1] 1. Citing Acts 11:15 the New International...
forums.carm.org
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Sorry to be so ignorant, but where are the footnotes and how to I access them? If that which appears in the blue is the footnote, it really has nothing to do with the question asked.
 
F

Fred

Well-known member
greatdivide46 said:
Sorry to be so ignorant, but where are the footnotes and how to I access them? If that which appears in the blue is the footnote, it really has nothing to do with the question asked.
Click to expand...

[2] When the Lord Jesus said, "Receive the Holy Spirit" (John 20:22) it is to be understood prophetically to what took place in Acts 2:4 because:
a. Thomas wasn’t there when this event took place, but he was there with the others during Pentecost.
b. According to Luke 24:49 the Lord Jesus is "sending" the Holy Spirit to them whereas the second half of the passage points to this taking place at a later date. W. E. Vine asserts that what is described in John 20:22 "was symbolic of the Holy Spirit about to be sent in the world, and with the effect of their ministry of the gospel in the forgiveness of sins by the Spirit's power, or the retention of sins by the rejection of the message (vv. 23, 24). It was a prophetic act as well as symbolic" (John: His Record of Christ, page 183). Wayne Grudem concurs: When Jesus breathed on his disciples and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit" (John 20:22), it probably was an acted-out prophecy about what would happen to them at Pentecost. In the same context - in fact, in the verse immediately preceding - Jesus had told them something that would not happen until Pentecost: "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" (John 20:21). But even though he said this before he had ascended into heaven, he did not really send them out to preach the gospel until the Day of Pentecost had come. Therefore, his words were looking forward to what would happen a Pentecost. It is best to understand the words in the next sentence, "Receive the Holy Spirit," in the same way - he was speaking in advance of something that would happen on the Day of Pentecost. On that day they would receive the new covenant fullness and power of the Holy Spirit, a much greater empowering of the Holy Spirit than what they had experienced before (Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine, page 769, footnote 13).
 
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greatdivide46

New Member
Fred said:
[2] When the Lord Jesus said, "Receive the Holy Spirit" (John 20:22) it is to be understood prophetically to what took place in Acts 2:4 because:
a. Thomas wasn’t there when this event took place, but he was there with the others during Pentecost.
b. According to Luke 24:49 the Lord Jesus is "sending" the Holy Spirit to them whereas the second half of the passage points to this taking place at a later date. W. E. Vine asserts that what is described in John 20:22 "was symbolic of the Holy Spirit about to be sent in the world, and with the effect of their ministry of the gospel in the forgiveness of sins by the Spirit's power, or the retention of sins by the rejection of the message (vv. 23, 24). It was a prophetic act as well as symbolic" (John: His Record of Christ, page 183). Wayne Grudem concurs: When Jesus breathed on his disciples and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit" (John 20:22), it probably was an acted-out prophecy about what would happen to them at Pentecost. In the same context - in fact, in the verse immediately preceding - Jesus had told them something that would not happen until Pentecost: "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" (John 20:21). But even though he said this before he had ascended into heaven, he did not really send them out to preach the gospel until the Day of Pentecost had come. Therefore, his words were looking forward to what would happen a Pentecost. It is best to understand the words in the next sentence, "Receive the Holy Spirit," in the same way - he was speaking in advance of something that would happen on the Day of Pentecost. On that day they would receive the new covenant fullness and power of the Holy Spirit, a much greater empowering of the Holy Spirit than what they had experienced before (Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine, page 769, footnote 13).
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OK, thanks for clearing that up. Not sure I agree with Vine or Grudem, but it is one way of looking at it.
 
1

101G

Well-known member
The Indwelling of the Holy Spirit is not the same as the Holy Spirit falling on, or infilling someone, a big difference.

many has been filled, or empowered to do a task, but maybe not indwell, or has the Holy Spirit "LIVING" in them. BIG difference.

:ninja:
 
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