No it is not as simple as thatQUOTE the alleged verse that says, "election to service".
Or admit that you're wrong.
It's as simple as that.
the concept is clearly there but you are playing games demanding the word must be there
No it is not as simple as thatQUOTE the alleged verse that says, "election to service".
Or admit that you're wrong.
It's as simple as that.
No it is not as simple as thatTheo1689 said:
QUOTE the alleged verse that says, "election to service".
Or admit that you're wrong.
It's as simple as that.
the concept is clearly there
but you are playing games demanding the word must be there
Yeah, that's usually the excuse when cultists hold to doctrines they can't demonstrate from Scripture...
Again i am more orthodox than you
No one taught your doctrine for the first 400 years of Christian history
It took Augustine and his Gnostic Manichean background to come up with it
Here is an elect to service
Is. 42:1 —KJV
“¶ Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.”
But
And will you deny Israel was a servant of God
False.
False and irrelevant.
You are denying God choses men or nations for service ?Sorry, doesn't say "elect to SERVICE".
That is simply your ASSUMPTION.
I'm not denying servant of God.
I'm denying that the mention of "elect" was about "service".
It wasn't.
Not false
You cannot show where anyone taught Calvinist determinism is the first 400 years and even Calvinist admit that
No it is not false
And no it is not irrelevant if you are going to go around and call my doctrine cultist
It is the major soteriology of what is probably the largest protestant denomination
You are denying God choses men or nations for service ?
Seriously ?
Elect simply means to chose
Election to service
chosen to serve
I can, and have.
But you'll simply ignore the plain meaning of the words.
So I'm not interested in wasting my time.
Oh I see... You got your feelings hurt, so you want to lash out in anger.
Understood.
Did you lose sight of the word protestantThat's not how one defines "orthodox".
If "major" means "orthodox", then you should probably convert to Roman Catholicism.
Just sayin'.
No, I'm denying that Scripture uses the term "elect" for service.
And I'm correct.
The term "election" in the Bible ALWAYS refers to salvation, NOT to "service".
I'm sorry that you don't like the facts.
You are in error
Is. 45:4 —KJV
“For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.”
Was the entire nation of Israel elected to salvation
Now you have been corrected
Accept your correction and deal with your error
Theo1689, You would be better served if you learned to believe the words you read and honor context. There was no "elect" before Jacob. Search the scriptures, no one before Jacob was chosen of God and elect, except Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world. See Isa 42:1. Election is by a birth. For Israel, one must be born into this family whose Father was Abraham, a type of God the Father. He must be born of Isaac, the promised son and the elect son. Isaac is a type and picture of the Lord Jesus Christ. The family of Isaac is formed through Jacob and all Israel is elect because they are born of Jacob, a type and picture of the Holy Ghost.No, I have NOT "been corrected".
And you have NO AUTHORITY to "correct" me.
Get over yourself.
Theo1689, You would be better served if you learned to believe the words you read and honor context.
There was no "elect" before Jacob.
Search the scriptures,
no one before Jacob was chosen of God and elect, except Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world. See Isa 42:1. Election is by a birth.
It is not too late to start over. You should consider it.
You are just saying that because it is what you want to believe. There are no elect between Jesus Christ and Jacob. There are justified believers in what God says but there are no elect. Election is by a birth into a family. It is the placing of an individual into a corporate body. That is a fact of scripture. Look it up and get back to me.Thank you for the insult and the personal attack.
I DO "believe the words [I ] read and honor context".
Thank you for your errant opinion.
I will believe Scripture over you.
I do.
That's why I know that you and Tom preach falsehood.
Sorry, "election is by a birth is UNBIBLICAL.
Election occurred from before the foundation of the world, LONG before anyone was "born".
You simply have no clue what you're talking about.
Since your beliefs are anti-Biblical ,and my beliefs are Biblical, there is no reason for me to "consider" any such thing.
Quite the contrary, YOU need to "consider" "starting over".
You are just saying that because it is what you want to believe.
There are no elect between Jesus Christ and Jacob. There are justified believers in what God says but there are no elect. Election is by a birth into a family. It is the placing of an individual into a corporate body. That is a fact of scripture. Look it up and get back to me.
They are not false and you know it. No one outside Israel (Jacob) are elect in the OT and no one outside the church of Jesus Christ, his body, formed by the Holy Ghost, are elect in the NT. No one.Nope.
Please cease misrepresenting me by making false claims about what you THINK I "want".
You're not claiming to be a mind-reader, are you?
If not, then kindly restrict your comments to what YOU "want", not what I "want".
I've read through the Bible many times in 30 years.
That's why I know your claims are false.
You have the patience of Job. Kudos Brother.Nope.
Please cease misrepresenting me by making false claims about what you THINK I "want".
You're not claiming to be a mind-reader, are you?
If not, then kindly restrict your comments to what YOU "want", not what I "want".
I've read through the Bible many times in 30 years.
That's why I know your claims are false.
They are not false and you know it.
No one outside Israel (Jacob) are elect in the OT and no one outside the church of Jesus Christ, his body, formed by the Holy Ghost, are elect in the NT. No one.
These two verse says it so plainly no one should miss it as it relates to gentile elect.
2 Thess 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Now, you would falsely claim "from the beginning" refers back to before the foundation of the world, forgetting that "from is a different preposition than "before."
The beginning for gentiles was in Acts 10 when Jesus baptized the nations with the Holy Ghost, according to the prophecy of John the Baptist, and gentiles began to get saved by receiving him by faith.
Jews and Israelis began to get saved in Acts 2 when they were baptized with the Holy Ghost according to the prophecy of John the Baptist.
1 Peter 1:1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Sanctification of the Spirit is to be set apart by the Spirit.
This is truth. I ask you to consider it.
there is no shame in changing your mind and your course.
Well, okay, but the scriptures knows of no elect outside the family of Israel and the family of Jesus Christ. It takes a birth to be elect. Whoever has not been born again is not elect. It is that simple.You are now bearing false witness.
You need to repent.
This is one of the reasons I will NEVER accept any of your false teachings.
Not only is it false, but I do NOT "know it".
You are bearing false witness when you falsely claim I "know" something that is not true.
I'm not interested in your false teachings.
Do you always try to force your false teachings down others' throats?
That supports MY beliefs, not yours.
Now you are bearing false witness about what I allegedly "forget".
Not only that, but you are making false ASSUMPTIONS about my thought process.
No, you teach falsehood, and I will NEVER reject the Bible in favour of the false teachings of an anonymous person on the Internet.
You're right.
Which is why YOU need to "change YOUR mind and YOUR course".
You want me to change my "course" from truth to ERROR.
And that is a foolish thing you are asking me to do.
Well, okay, but the scriptures knows of no elect outside the family of Israel and the family of Jesus Christ. It takes a birth to be elect. Whoever has not been born again is not elect. It is that simple.
Yes and ?You do realize that is a quote from
Psa. 36:1 —ESV
“¶ Transgression speaks to the wicked deep in his heart; there is no fear of God before his eyes.”