Could Transubstantion be true?

balshan

Well-known member
That right. If the priest is truly evil he will indeed drop down dead eternally, he will have no life in him.

JoeT
He holds the host irreverently then if the host was the true presence then he would physically drop down dead as well. That is scriptural.
 

JoeT

Well-known member
I draw a blank and move on when I see Latin words. I was raised with it, sang in it and studied it for 2 yrs. I want no more of it in my life, it's a major turn off.
For sure.
that doesn't happen until one is born again, which is not thru catholicism or water baptism.
Nice try. Not even you can't usurp the Divine Church. Remember, the gates will not prevail against her.
I don't remember you commenting like that about a catholic poster who continually inserted his sci-fi jargon into posts.
It doesn't matter, there are two victims in this case, one of injustice and one for our justification.

JoeT
 

mica

Well-known member
For sure.

Nice try. Not even you can't usurp the Divine Church. Remember, the gates will not prevail against her.
no, God does that, even tho catholics don't believe He does. the RCC is not 'divine', nor is it His church.

your 'her' isn't His church. His church is His body of believers - those who believe in Him and His word, those who have experienced the rebirth which isn't by water or wafer.

It doesn't matter, there are two victims in this case, one of injustice and one for our justification.

JoeT
catholics are the ones who claim to believe in cannibalism.

by the time most people are 16 they can read for themselves and hopefully understand what they read. they shouldn't need to be spoon fed anymore.
 

balshan

Well-known member
For sure.

Nice try. Not even you can't usurp the Divine Church. Remember, the gates will not prevail against her.

It doesn't matter, there are two victims in this case, one of injustice and one for our justification.

JoeT
No one is usurping your institutions authority, it cannot be done it has no authority. Hypocrisy is noted.
 

Nic

Well-known member
I don't do Pig-Latin, you'll need to translate.

JoeT
Exo is usually thought of as eating people not one's tribe.
Endo refers to eating a tribesmen who has died. There are different reasons why this is practiced. Some are islanders devoid of sustainable food resources but all usually have the understanding that eating a brave warrior or hunter may endow those who ingest the flesh with bravery or skills to obtain food. Or wisdom when they consume the brain gentleness, strength, craftsmanship, leadership, etc...
 

JoeT

Well-known member
Well, you could have fooled me. I thought you were talking about the Greek prefix endo, like in endogamy and endoenkéfalos. both of which you should know intimately.

JoeT
 

Nic

Well-known member
Well, you could have fooled me. I thought you were talking about the Greek prefix endo, like in endogamy and endoenkéfalos. both of which you should know intimately.

JoeT
Endo does mean within as I used it as well.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
In the long run, does it matter?
Yes.
For the Catholic Church it is merely an attempt to explain what happens during the consecration of the bread and the wine. Our Eastern Orthodox brothers do not attempt an explanation, they call it "a mystery". And as someone just posted here, the Lutherans call it "consubstantiation". Others explain it as just "a symbol" (which really means it is nothing).

The figure Symbol does not mean it is nothing. By definition, a symbol is a substitution. A symbol symbolizes what is symbolized, and what is symbolized is not nothing.

The fact is that it isn't the figure Symbol, but the figure Metaphor which means that Jesus is pointing out that the bread in his hands "represents" his body which sustains them just like the bread that came down from heaven and sustained Israel in the wilderness.

The reality is that Christ is what sustains us, not mere literal bread.
 

Nic

Well-known member
No just stating the fact that if you eat flesh and drink blood you are a cannibal. Cannibalism is again God's law. Also God does not change. If the host was the real body and blood of Jesus, evil priests would fall down dead. God will not be touched irreverently.
Not fact. Intellectual honesty would humbly declare opinion of the scriptures.
 

Maxtar

Active member
"This is (i.e., represents) my body," is an undoubted Metaphor.
Only in your opinion is it an "undoubted metaphor". To billions of orthodox believing Christians around the world it isn't. For over 2000 years the two major Christian faith's (The Latin Rite and the Eastern Orthodox) have taught this to be the truth, the truth about a Christian dogma that comes directly from God. We are not confused about this, we are not lacking in faith about this - you are.
 
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shnarkle

Well-known member
Only in your opinion is it an "undoubted metaphor".
False. I'm relying upon not only the definition of the figure, but to the usage in the biblical texts which I also provided for your edification.
To billions of orthodox believing Christians around the world it isn't.
Billions of Christians could believe the earth is flat, but that doesn't make it so.
For over 2000 years the two major Christian faith's (The Latin Rite and the Eastern Orthodox) have taught this to be the truth,
A persistent delusion is still a delusion.
the truth about a Christian dogma that comes directly from God.
God is not the author of confusion, and when an author intentionally deviates from the laws of language, he is doing so to make a point. Ignoring the author's intentions is a sure way to come up with false doctrines and dogmas.
We are not confused about this,
You can't even be bothered to address what I posted.
we are not lacking in faith about this - you are.
Your faith doesn't allow you to mount a defense. You're incapable of addressing my argument.

I don't need the faith of a mustard seed to refute you. I only need rely upon the truth which you don't seem to recognize.
 

balshan

Well-known member
Yes, Christ is who sustains us, both spiritually and literally via the Holy Sacrament of Communion.
Oh your opinion again. It is not literal body and blood, so you have nothing at all. If it was then there should be thousands of dead priests.
 

mica

Well-known member
Only in your opinion is it an "undoubted metaphor". To billions of orthodox believing Christians around the world it isn't. For over 2000 years the two major Christian faith's (The Latin Rite and the Eastern Orthodox) have taught this to be the truth, the truth about a Christian dogma that comes directly from God. We are not confused about this, we are not lacking in faith about this - you are.
What makes them Christian? they aren't of God, don't teach the truth of His word... your church saves no one, nor does water baptism. only belief in one's heart in the shed blood of His sacrifice does that.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Yes, Christ is who sustains us, both spiritually and literally via the Holy Sacrament of Communion.
A Symbol cannot be a figure of speech and literal as well. Symbols are signs, and when one hits a pedestrian crossing sign, they are not literally hitting the pedestrians symbolized in the sign. They will not be charged with vehicular manslaughter.

Signs or symbols are substitutions, but a pedestrian crossing sign does not literally provide a substitution for yet another pedestrian crossing sign. They are a substitution for actual crosswalks up ahead that may have actual pedestrians in them.

You're playing fast and loose with figures of speech with nothing to back up this belief of yours. If we can all do this, then we can take Peter's vision and say that he is literally telling us to "kill and eat" gentiles which is what are being symbolized in his vision. We know this because he informs Cornelius of this revelation as soon as he visits him.

He tells Cornelius' household that he is no longer to refer to gentiles as unclean. They are now acceptable as food to be eaten. See how that works? We can do this all day, and come up with all sorts of interesting conclusions by taking figures of speech and using them literally as well. What's to stop us once we get started?
 

Maxtar

Active member
Wow what a rarity two law keepers in the same household that never lie.
Of course! They never sin or run afoul of Jesus's commands either. Yeah right. We know that isn't true as we see violations of God's words here daily.
 
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