Covenant of grace

Carbon

Well-known member
I think I see what you are saying. Adam's sin "was" imputed, but no longer "is".
Sure it is, you and all are born with original sin.
In that case let me clarify my objection. How on God's green earth did he reach the idea that Adam's sin is imputed on anybody but Adam at any time?


12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and udeath through sin, and so death spread to all men because wall sinned Romans 5.

Read Romans 5:12-21
 

Carbon

Well-known member
We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away. Isaiah 64:6
 

Carbon

Well-known member
Adam was the federal head of mankind. When Adam sinned, all mankind sinned in him.
God decreed from eternity to permit the first man (Adam), the representative of all mankind to fall and break the covenant, therefore involving himself and all his posterity to ruins.

God permitted the fall of man for His own holy ends, purposing to bring about good from it.
 

Stephen

Well-known member
Sure it is, you and all are born with original sin.

Being born of the line of Adam is a misfortune, not a crime.

Read Romans 5:12-21

OK. Let's read it.

12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

What it says is death comes to all people because Adam sinned. It doesn't say some "original sin" came to all people because Adam sinned.

This is straightforward Old Testament exposition. Adam and his posterity lost access to the tree of life so consequently he would die. Further, he was thrust out of the garden and had to toil for food.

13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

Continuing the topic. People sin before they had access to the law, but there was no accounting because there were no rules to break. However even those who never heard of the law still inherited the consequences of Adam's sin, they have lost access to the tree of life and the garden.

The point being, you don't die because of some sin scorecard, even if the scorecard had no sins you die. And as Genesis 3 makes clear, Adam and his children lost access to the tree of life.

15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

The judgment that followed the one sin brought death, by losing access to the tree of life. In contrast, the gift will bring justification and restore access to the tree of life.

18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

The consequences are not the removal of "original sin", but rather many will be made righteous.

20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Amen. Sin is now king because death has mastery over us like it once did over Christ. So also, grace might reign through righteousness and bring eternal life, as Adam's posterity will have access to the tree of life once again.
 

Stephen

Well-known member
We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away. Isaiah 64:6

What has Israel's lament got to do with this discussion. This verse is ripped out of its context. The next verse says why their deeds are filthy rags, and it has nothing to do with "original sin". It has everything to do with the sins they are committing.

6 All of us have become like one who is unclean,​
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;​
we all shrivel up like a leaf,​
and like the wind our sins sweep us away.​
7 No one calls on your name
or strives to lay hold of you;
for you have hidden your face from us​
and have given us over to our sins.

Once God gives you over to your sins, you are in a bad place indeed (Romans 1:18-31). Their deeds and "righteous acts" are filthy rags.

However, God expects you to be a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God (Romans 12:1).
 

Stephen

Well-known member
Adam was the federal head of mankind. When Adam sinned, all mankind sinned in him.

Agree.

God decreed from eternity to permit the first man (Adam), the representative of all mankind to fall and break the covenant, therefore involving himself and all his posterity to ruins.

I don't know where you get from "eternity", but I agree that God did give man a degree of free will, and he made his choice, to know good as well as evil.

God permitted the fall of man for His own holy ends, purposing to bring about good from it.

I agree, God is still working and making man into his image.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Yes, I agree.
Thought I said that before?
Okay so if the elects sins are imputed to Christ at the Cross, then aren't they Justified from their sins at the Cross before they are born and before Faith/Believing ? Arent they born without sin imputed to them ? Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
I don’t understand your question?
Are you asking about people born into this world? Or?
Yes, the elect who Christ died for, because their sins were charged to Him, are they born into the world as sinners without their sins charged to them ?
 

Carbon

Well-known member
Yes, the elect who Christ died for, because their sins were charged to Him, are they born into the world as sinners without their sins charged to them ?
Not sure why you ask, thought you knew scripture?

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), Eph 2
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Not sure why you ask, thought you knew scripture?

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), Eph 2
I dont think you understand scripture, justification, or the covenant of Grace, and you started a thread on the covenant of grace,
 
G

guest1

Guest
Not sure why you ask, thought you knew scripture?

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), Eph 2
Amen brother! 😍
 
G

guest1

Guest
I dont think you understand scripture, justification, or the covenant of Grace, and you started a thread on the covenant of grace,
I dont think you understand scripture, justification, or the covenant of Grace, and you jumped on this thread on the covenant of grace,

hope this helps !!!
 

Carbon

Well-known member
I dont think you understand scripture, justification, or the covenant of Grace, and you started a thread on the covenant of grace,
If you understood the covenant of grace you wouldn’t be trying to ask such questions. Why not come right out and say what your after here? Perhaps because we might show you where your beliefs are out of wack with scripture? Some call your position hyper-Calvinism but I disagree, hypers have nothing to do with Calvinism.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Does scripture make you angry?
No it doesnt, but I dont believe you understand it. You started a thread on the covenant of grace and appaently know nothing about it, or understand it. Maybe you want others to discuss it so you can learn .
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
If you understood the covenant of grace you wouldn’t be trying to ask such questions. Why not come right out and say what your after here? Perhaps because we might show you where your beliefs are out of wack with scripture? Some call your position hyper-Calvinism but I disagree, hypers have nothing to do with Calvinism.
Im asking questions to see if we could have fellowshipped about it, but I see that wont be happening no time soon. You need to learn some vital truths, and you not listening to me ! I will just post my input as time goes by and maybe you will learn something.
 
G

guest1

Guest
Im asking questions to see if we could have fellowshipped about it, but I see that wont be happening no time soon. You need to learn some vital truths, and you not listening to me ! I will just post my input as time goes by and maybe you will learn something.
Only Jesus through the Holy Spirit reveals truth.

Are you claiming to be a teacher sent by Jesus ?
 
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