Covenantbreakers

Redeemed

Well-known member
What peer reviewed studies or any valid authoritative source can you cite to substantiate your claim? That's right there isn't any.

This is a mind control concept of The The Pattern, (a method of fear and control that the Mormon Church uses to keep members) The Binder, (Church leadership binds “us heart and soul to the perpetual requirements of being a good Mormon”) and The Bound (“We gradually give up questioning the doctrine and history of the Church that seemed vague and troublesome and try to concentrate on doing all we could to be worthy of the larger, eternal blessings.”)


The Double-Bind is then employed that confuses and denies the Bound the ability to “think or feel rationally.” For example, whereas church doctrine (D&C 93:36) teaches The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth, church leaders say You will remain silent on those [doctrines] where differences exist between you and the Brethren. (Bruce McConkie’s Letter, Feb. 19, 1981)
 

Mesenja

Active member
Take a look at the following examples from Doctrine and Covenants that teach salvation by good works, personal merit and keeping the law:

He that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven;... (Doctrine and Covenants 1:32)

And those who receive it [the truth of the Mormon Church] in faith, and work righteousness, shall receive a crown of eternal life [exaltation as God];... (Doctrine and Covenants 20:14)

Wherefore, give heed unto these things and be diligent in keeping my commandments, and you shall be blessed unto eternal life. Amen. (Doctrine and Covenants 30:8)

And whoso is found a faithful, a just, and a wise steward shall enter into the joy of his Lord, and shall inherit eternal life. (Doctrine and Covenants 51:19)

And, if you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God. (Doctrine and Covenants 14:7)

But learn that he who doeth the works of righteousness shall receive his reward, even peace in this world, and eternal life in the world to come. (Doctrine and Covenants 59:23)

And that you be firm in keeping the commandments wherewith I have commanded you; and if you do this, behold I grant unto you eternal life, even if you should be slain. (Doctrine and Covenants 5:22)

... if he [Joseph Smith] shall be diligent in keeping my commandments he shall be blessed unto eternal life.... (Doctrine and Covenants 18:8)

Herein is glory and honor, and immortality and eternal life—The ordinance of baptism by water, to be immersed therein in order to answer to the likeness of the dead [baptism for the dead].... (Doctrine and Covenants 128:12)

The Book of Mormon, teaches salvation by good works:

And whosoever doeth this, and keepeth the commandments of God from thenceforth, the same will remember that I say unto him, yea, he will remember that I have said unto him, he shall have eternal life, according to the testimony of the Holy Spirit, which testifieth in me. (Book of Mormon, Alma 7:16)

What scriptural citation can you provide that teaches us not keep the commandments and live in sin!
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
What scriptural citation can you provide that teaches us not keep the commandments and live in sin!
Why would I do that? I love to see you leave Mormonism and be set free. Set free from a works based salvation and all the other lies Mormonism teaches. I can get some Scriptures to show you how to do that.
 
Last edited:

Theo1689

Well-known member
What scriptural citation can you provide that teaches us not keep the commandments and live in sin!

I try to give Mormons credit for having some modicum of intelligence...
It's only charitable, after all...

But sometimes it's difficult to do so.

I'll continue to assume the above comment by the Mormon is based on misplaced animus rather than on ignorance about what we're saying.

First of all, NOBODY here is saying to "live in sin". I'm pretty sure that's simply a lame attempt to misrepresent Christians. But in actual fact, it simply demonstrates the ignorance of Mormons. Because if Mormons could simply get past Rom. 2, and continue reading to:

Rom. 3 - great stuff!
Rom. 4 - great stuff!
Rom. 5 - great stuff!

... and then they would get to Romans 6 (MORE great stuff!):

Rom. 5:20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom. 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?



The issue under discussion is NOT "whether" to keep the commandments or not.

The true issue under discussion is whether the commandments contribute to our "salvation" or not. And they DO NOT.

To look to the commandments for salvation is to deny Christ, pure and simple.
 

Mesenja

Active member
Why would I do that? I love to see you leave Mormonism and be set free. Set free from a works based salvation and all the other lies Mormonism teaches. I can get some Scriptures to show you how to do that.

I'm glad we agree with me that keeping the commandments is scriptural.
 
Last edited:

Mesenja

Active member
Why would I do that? I love to see you leave Mormonism and be set free. Set free from a works based salvation and all the other lies Mormonism teaches. I can get some Scriptures to show you how to do that.

What scriptural citation can you provide that teaches us that we can still be saved yet remain unrepentant?
 
Last edited:

Redeemed

Well-known member
I'm glad you agree with me that keeping the commandments is scriptural.
In your head maybe. Before I sign off on agreeing with you about keeping any Commandments we have to define what those Commandments are.

You asked me to Provide you something:
What scriptural citation can you provide that teaches us not keep the commandments and live in sin!
My answer to you was:
Why would I do that? I love to see you leave Mormonism and be set free. Set free from a works based salvation and all the other lies Mormonism teaches. I can get some Scriptures to show you how to do that.
Where's the agreement? I know this is really asking a lot from you but do you think maybe just this one time you could perhaps provide these commandments the you apparently somehow assume I want you not to keep?

Are you talking about the book of Commandments as in Mormon literature? Because if that's the case it's about as scriptural as the text on the bag of flaming hot Cheetos.

The church printed the Book of Mormon in 1830, the Book of Commandments in 1833, and the first edition of The Doctrine and Covenants (which replaced the Book of Commandments) in 1835.

Even Mormonism tossed out the book of Commandments!
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
What scriptural citation can you provide that teaches us that we can still be saved yet remain unrepentant?
Hallelujah you got saved? When did this happen? I didn't even know you left Mormonism! I'm proud of you brother I knew you could do it. So how long have you been saved? And I noticed from your post you seem to Still have an issue with repenting. I can recommend some books for you. But it's not that hard, just ask God to forgive you in Jesus name. It's in the Bible! Do you have a real Bible?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Redeemed said:
Why would I do that? I love to see you leave Mormonism and be set free. Set free from a works based salvation and all the other lies Mormonism teaches. I can get some Scriptures to show you how to do that.
What scriptural citation can you provide that teaches us that we can still be saved yet remain unrepentant?

I'm a little unsure why you keep asking people to provide "scripture" for assertions they've never made.

I can't help but think it is an attempt to try to misrepresent what we believe.
But perhaps you can present a more charitable reason.
 

Mesenja

Active member
Hallelujah you got saved? When did this happen? I didn't even know you left Mormonism! I'm proud of you brother I knew you could do it. So how long have you been saved? And I noticed from your post you seem to Still have an issue with repenting. I can recommend some books for you. But it's not that hard, just ask God to forgive you in Jesus name. It's in the Bible! Do you have a real Bible?
I take it then that your answer is in the affirmative that a Christian is not required to repent to be saved. Is this correct?
 
Last edited:

Mesenja

Active member
In your head maybe. Before I sign off on agreeing with you about keeping any Commandments we have to define what those Commandments are.

You asked me to Provide you something:

My answer to you was:

Where's the agreement? I know this is really asking a lot from you but do you think maybe just this one time you could perhaps provide these commandments the you apparently somehow assume I want you not to keep?

Are you talking about the book of Commandments as in Mormon literature? Because if that's the case it's about as scriptural as the text on the bag of flaming hot Cheetos.

The church printed the Book of Mormon in 1830, the Book of Commandments in 1833, and the first edition of The Doctrine and Covenants (which replaced the Book of Commandments) in 1835.

Even Mormonism tossed out the book of Commandments!

Then you disagree with me that a Christian is required to obey the commandments to be saved. Is his correct?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Then you disagree with me that a Christian is required to obey the commandments to be saved. Is his correct?

Well, the following passages might inform your opinion:

Eph. 2:8 ... And this is not your own doing ...
Eph. 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
2 Tim. 1:9 who saved us ... not because of our works
Tit. 3:5 he saved us, not because of works ...
Rom. 4:5 And to the one who does not work ... his faith is counted as righteousness,
Rom. 4:6 ... the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
Rom. 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works;


But for some reason, you keep RUNNING AWAY from this passages, leaving lurkers to wonder why...

Keep in mind, NONE of those passages are saying, "don't obey the commandments", or "revel in sin".

What they DO say is our works do NOT contribute SPECIFICALLY to our SALVATION.
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
I take it then that your answer is in the affirmative that a Christian is not required to repent to be saved. Is this correct?
I take it you got nothing. As your just playing silly games. But it's understandable as it's impossible to defend Mormonism. So said.;)
 
Top