Covenantbreakers

Theo1689

Well-known member
Of course you don't discuss our differences... it's so easy to make excuses so as not to be embarrassed about your own doctrine. God has chosen you... hence you did not choose God...

I'm not Mormon.
So my beliefs are OFF-TOPIC here.

It is not about what I "want".
It is me being a Christian, and obeying authority.
That's why Mormons are not Christians, as they disobey authority all the time.

If you want to bash my beliefs, go to the APPROPRIATE forurm to do so.
As OG pointed out, it's only a couple of mouse clicks away.
How lazy is that?

Awe, I see where you're going with this... since Christ did it all, even baptism by water, everyone else in excluded from this other then maybe it be a symbolic gesture... very good Theo... you actually have found away around this very studiously and purpose in mind... hmm

<Chuckle>
I love how since I refuse to break the rules by discussing my beliefs, you decide to put words in my mouth that I never said.

Clearly honesty is NOT a Mormon virtue.
 

Richard7

Well-known member
Sorry, you are simply wrong.
Paul is most definitely referring to the law of Moses here.
There's nothing in the text to even SUGGEST He is referring to a "law of Christ".

Paul's point is that the Jews thought they were God's special chosen, simply because He chose them to receive the Law. But Paul is pointing out that you not only have to "hear" the Law for it to have any benefit, but you also have to DO what it says.

And then when you get to that point, you discover (as Paul writes a little later) that NOBODY can keep the Mosaic Law, which is WHY we need Christ and the gospel.

Rom. 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Rom. 3:21
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law,

Are you SURE "law" refers to "the law of Christ"? So righteousness is apart from Christ?!

although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe.

Funny how Paul doesn't use the wording, "law of Christ" here, he simply points out (as he often does) that "law" is OPPOSITE of the righteousness of Christ.

For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Again, no mention of "law of Christ".



There is NOWHERE in the Bible that defines "law of Christ" as "faith in Christ and works based on grace".

Gal. 6:2 Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

This defines "law of Christ" as "bearing one another's burdens", and shows that it is "law" in the sense of "principle", not in the sense of "a set of works to do". Further, it does not list "faith" as part of "the law of Christ".

You seem to just be making stuff up.
Sorry, but he is spot on...at least according to our teachings...


The most important text to help us fully appreciate the spirit and purpose of the law of Moses is the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon people maintained the spirit of the law of Moses, and it served them well. Their faithful observance finally helped prepare a responsive group to receive the Messiah in their day.

In a great revelation on priesthood, Doctrine and Covenants 84, the Lord established an important foundation for understanding the relationship between the law of Moses and the law of Christ. After reviewing the line of authority in conferring the priesthood in ancient times, we read:

And the Lord confirmed a priesthood also upon Aaron and his seed, throughout all their generations, which priesthood also continueth and abideth forever with the priesthood which is after the holiest order of God.
And this greater priesthood administereth the gospel and holdeth the key of the mysteries of the kingdom, even the key of the knowledge of God.
Therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest. [That is to say, in the ordinances of the Melchizedek, or the higher, priesthood is the power of godliness manifest.]
And without the ordinances thereof [or the ordinances of the higher priesthood], and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh;
For without this [that is, the temple ordinances] no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live. (D&C 84:18–22)

 

Richard7

Well-known member
I'm not Mormon.
So my beliefs are OFF-TOPIC here.

What? you can't do a comparison of doctrine, and why would that be... how can you even debate is you aren't willing to share your doctrine.
That leaves us with what? a continuous, no reply, not interested, irrelevant, you're running away, take it to another forum, or just plain... I dunno.


It is not about what I "want".
It is me being a Christian, and obeying authority.
That's why Mormons are not Christians, as they disobey authority all the time.
I doubt you even know what Biblical authority means... or the Keys of the Kingdom, or what a testimony of Christ entails..

Matthew 16
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.




If you want to bash my beliefs, go to the APPROPRIATE forurm to do so.
As OG pointed out, it's only a couple of mouse clicks away.
How lazy is that?

This Forum exposes so much about the falsity of Christian doctrine...

<Chuckle>
I love how since I refuse to break the rules by discussing my beliefs, you decide to put words in my mouth that I never said.

Clearly honesty is NOT a Mormon virtue.
I'm not a Mormon... clearly, but a Saint I am as depicted in the Bible and something Christians shy away from... so exactly what does Saint mean to you Theo... or is this just another got to the correct forum for a answer... chuckle
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
God's grace is surely a blessing. There are zero blessings that don't need to be earned in Mormonism.

Line upon Line

D&C 130:20–21

Doctrine and Covenants 130

These verses teach about the eternal significance of obedience.

20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—
21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.


We are justified before God by grace alone. We are not justified through our obedience. We are not justified through our works. We are not justified through our faith.

Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Without knowing the Bible, a person can be tossed to and fro by any wind of doctrine.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
What? you can't do a comparison of doctrine, and why would that be... how can you even debate is you aren't willing to share your doctrine.

So atheists aren't allowed to debate you?
Seriously?!

I can debate because I have shown in just about every post that:

Mormon doctrine contradicts Mormon Scripture (ie. the Bible).

There is NO need to discuss my personal beliefs to demonstrate that.

That leaves us with what? a continuous, no reply, not interested, irrelevant, you're running away, take it to another forum, or just plain... I dunno.

Only when you constantly throw in red herrings to try to sabotage discussion of Mormonism. Everyone can see what you're doing.

I doubt you even know what Biblical authority means... or the Keys of the Kingdom, or what a testimony of Christ entails..

I think just about everyone reading these posts has observed that EVERY single post from LDS includes (1) one or more insulting personal attacks against Christians, and (2) and immediate claim of "Victory" for Mormons and "Defeat" for Christianity.

Mormons are unwilling to acknowledge that there are valid rebuttals to their bankrupt claims, and they can't help proclaiming, "We win! We win! Neener Neener Neener!" like an entitled little 2-year-old.

This Forum exposes so much about the falsity of Christian doctrine...

That's impossible, since "Christian doctrine" is OFF-TOPIC for this forum.
You refuse to debate it in a forum where it's on-topic, because you know you would lose.
All you've demonstrated here is that Mormons don't LIKE "Christian doctrine".
And not liking it doesn't make it false.

And the argumentation by Mormons is so bankrupt, it's embarassing for you.
You deny that God predestines, when the Bible EXPLICITLY proclaims it.
You deny that God is invisible, when the Bible EXPLICITLY proclaims it.

I'm not a Mormon... clearly, but a Saint

So you're not from the same church that proclaims the "Book of MORMON" as Scripture?
You're not from the same church that has the "MORMON Tabernacle choir"?
You're not from the same church that OWNS the website "MORMON dot org"?

I am as depicted in the Bible and something Christians shy away from... so exactly what does Saint mean to you Theo... or is this just another got to the correct forum for a answer... chuckle

See what I mean?
Nothing but trash talk and personal attacks, because he can't defend the bankrupt and indefensible Mormonism.
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
. I'm not a Mormon... clearly, but a Saint I am as depicted in the Bible and something Christians shy away from... so exactly what does Saint mean to you Theo... or is this just another got to the correct forum for a answer... chuckle
Your church members were known as Mormons for at least a hundred years. Are you now a different church and are offended by Mormonism?
 

Mesenja

Well-known member

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:


Romans 3:21-24

21
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction; 23 since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
Romans 3:21-24

21
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction; 23 since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,
In Mormonism, members are not under the law of Moses. They are obligated to obey the laws and ordinances of Mormonism.

So how does Romans 3:21-24 exempt a Mormon from meeting the requirements for eternal life?
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
God's grace is surely a blessing. There are zero blessings that don't need to be earned in Mormonism.
False. The atonement is not earned. Your claims that it is, are false.
Line upon Line
Irrelevant

D&C 130:20–21​

Doctrine and Covenants 130

These verses teach about the eternal significance of obedience.

20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—
21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.
The atonement as a blessing was earned by Christ and then gifted to us. So, this blessing was both earned and gifted. Nothing in that passage indicates that we had to be the ones to earn it.
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
False. The atonement is not earned. Your claims that it is, are false.

Irrelevant

The atonement as a blessing was earned by Christ and then gifted to us. So, this blessing was both earned and gifted. Nothing in that passage indicates that we had to be the ones to earn it.
Christ is God. Why would God need to have an atonement?

Mormonism teaches that every blessing must be earned.

“There will be a wise and just God to sit in judgment on all men. … The wicked may prosper for a time, the rebellious may seem to profit by their transgressions, but the time is coming when, at the bar of justice, all men will be judged, ‘every man according to their works’ (Rev. 20:13). No one will ‘get by’ with anything. On that day no one will escape the penalty of his deeds, no one will fail to receive the blessings he has earned.
Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, pp. 304–5.

The atonement purchased the eternal life of those who have faith in Christ's blood. However, Mormon leaders teach that it gives you an opportunity to earn eternal life. If you say that is false, you are the one who doesn't know Mormonism, not I.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
Christ is God. Why would God need to have an atonement?
I didn't say He did.
Mormonism teaches that every blessing must be earned.
And every blessing does need to be earned. Christ earned the victory over the grave for all of us. That's basic Christianity 101. I'm beginning to wonder if you just like to argue or if you don't know what you're talking about.
“There will be a wise and just God to sit in judgment on all men. … The wicked may prosper for a time, the rebellious may seem to profit by their transgressions, but the time is coming when, at the bar of justice, all men will be judged, ‘every man according to their works’ (Rev. 20:13). No one will ‘get by’ with anything. On that day no one will escape the penalty of his deeds, no one will fail to receive the blessings he has earned.
Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, pp. 304–5.
True. Completely unrelated to this thread, but true.
The atonement purchased the eternal life of those who have faith in Christ's blood.
I will agree with that. And who earned the right to purchase those who have faith in God? Do we teach that we did? No.
Mormon leaders teach that it gives you an opportunity to earn eternal life.
Correct. The atonement if free to everyone regardless of what they did or will do. Salvation is not. If Salvation was equally free, then everyone would be saved. Is everyone saved? No. Therefore those who are saved must do something different than those who aren't. This is just plain simple common sense.
If you say that is false, you are the one who doesn't know Mormonism, not I.
I'm not sure you even know what you're arguing about. The atonement is free. Jesus Christ earned it, not us. To us, though the blessing was earned, the gift is free. Salvation is not the atonement. Salvation is very expensive.
 

Mesenja

Well-known member
So do you still disagree with Romans 5:1?

1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
 

Mesenja

Well-known member
In Mormonism, members are not under the law of Moses. They are obligated to obey the laws and ordinances of Mormonism.

So how does Romans 3:21-24 exempt a Mormon from meeting the requirements for eternal life?

It doesn’t exempt us from meeting the requirements of eternal life.
 

Richard7

Well-known member
So you're not from the same church that proclaims the "Book of MORMON" as Scripture?
You're not from the same church that has the "MORMON Tabernacle choir"?
You're not from the same church that OWNS the website "MORMON dot org"?
1). that one is pure silliness, no correlation good buddy.. WE are not mormons and somehow your twisting this as Mormon Scripture... chuckle
go back to your blueprint... your plan to message some kind of relationship with the name Mormons fails..

2). Mormon Choir, really? How about the correct name Theo... you need to update your anti-mormon literature.
The Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square .... look it up Theo and join the living...

3).. Mormon.org ... hmm ... how abut LDS.org... nice try, living in the past are we? chuckle
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
1). that one is pure silliness, no correlation good buddy.. WE are not mormons and somehow your twisting this as Mormon Scripture... chuckle
go back to your blueprint... your plan to message some kind of relationship with the name Mormons fails..

No, your answer is "pure silliness".
LDS have been known as "Mormons" forever.

2). Mormon Choir, really? How about the correct name Theo... you need to update your anti-mormon literature.
The Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square .... look it up Theo and join the living...

Stop playing stupid games.
They just recently changed their name.
What were they called before?
"The MORMON Tabernacle Choir".

3).. Mormon.org ... hmm ... how abut LDS.org... nice try, living in the past are we? chuckle

So you are so ignorant that you aren't aware of the website, mormon.org, that your church purchased?

Looks like YOU have egg on your face!
 

Richard7

Well-known member
No, your answer is "pure silliness".
LDS have been known as "Mormons" forever.



Stop playing stupid games.
They just recently changed their name.
What were they called before?
"The MORMON Tabernacle Choir".



So you are so ignorant that you aren't aware of the website, mormon.org, that your church purchased?

Looks like YOU have egg on your face!
Wow, mocking me?
Join the living good buddy... big chuckle.

LDS.org has become ChurchofJesusChrist.org. Mormon.org is changed to ComeUntoChrist.org. Church social media accounts will emphasize the name of the Savior's church.Mar 5, 2019
 

Richard7

Well-known member
Wrong.
They may REDIRECT to those websites, but "lds.org" and "mormon.org" still exist.
Don't believe me? Try it yourself.



Running away from their history.
I did, maybe you didn't.... so, big stretch good buddy... but I showed the evidence and data...

LDS.org has become ChurchofJesusChrist.org. Mormon.org is changed to ComeUntoChrist.org. Church social media accounts will emphasize the name of the Savior's church.Mar 5, 2019

No wonder you guys lose so much, your persistent stubbornness to admit any real truth is so obvious that when you text a misrepresentation of true facts... my! you must be so embarrassed to admit you are wrong and just continue down a obvious rabbit hole.. chuckle ... running away from your mistakes...
 
Top