Covenantbreakers

And my response to her was commenting on the foundation of lies upon which Mormonism is founded.
Smith was a liar, con man, swindler etc.
There is nothing in the BoM corresponding to reality.
In your "Testimony meetings, you guys and gals engage in a form of self-hypnosis in order to perpetuate the BoM is true because every testimony ends with variations on these words, "I know that the BoM is true because..."

I know that the poster Janice Bower is an ex-mo for she stated that several times on these boards. Thus, it is not my problem that you are unable to see my intent in that post, or are you simply playing the same, insipid mormo-games that you play with Bonnie and Theo, trying to pit one against the other?

That will not work with Janice Bower and myself, also. We are aware of your tactics, dude.

It still doesn’t explain the relevance your post has to this thread other then allowing you to vent.
 
Could you--or anyone else-- explain the difference between that testimony--and the testimony of Jesus Christ?

Easy peasey.

Jesus Christ is God incarnate, forever was fully God, forever will be God because He is the Son of God.
OTOH Monson was a follower of a known liar, somewhat in the vein of a sycophant because unquestioningly, he perpetuated the evil of Smith.
 
It still doesn’t explain the relevance your post has to this thread other then allowing you to vent.

Since you do not like, or perhaps do not comprehend my post, report it to a moderator.
It is not my fault that you fail to understand what I made clear.

BTW we are again witness to your games playing. Telling the truth is not the same as venting. Yeah, you don't like it because you cannot defend what I posted, but redefining truth as you did is actually playing Jabberwocky
 
Since you do not like, or perhaps do not comprehend my post, report it to a moderator.
It is not my fault that you fail to understand what I made clear.

BTW we are again witness to your games playing. Telling the truth is not the same as venting. Yeah, you don't like it because you cannot defend what I posted, but redefining truth as you did is actually playing Jabberwocky

vent
verb
to express negative emotion in a forceful and often unfair way:​
 
vent
verb
to express negative emotion in a forceful and often unfair way:​

So, is whining about your pet peeve and redefining words an indication of your level of apologetics acumen as it applies to Mormonism?

In case you missed the obvious, you are again (sigh) trying to play word games instead of defending Mormonism.

I bear you this testimony, that the entire religion is so messed up, it defies the use of truth-telling as a legitimate apologetic. Your games playing is ample evidence, needing no further explanation.
 
Easy peasey.

Jesus Christ is God incarnate, forever was fully God, forever will be God because He is the Son of God.

If you believe that to be true--then why don't the critics here accept His testimony?

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The LDS have no problem accepting that as the gospel truth.
 
So, is whining about your pet peeve and redefining words an indication of your level of apologetics acumen as it applies to Mormonism? In case you missed the obvious, you are again (sigh) trying to play word games instead of defending Mormonism. I bear you this testimony, that the entire religion is so messed up, it defies the use of truth-telling as a legitimate apologetic. Your games playing is ample evidence, needing no further explanation.

Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed today or do you just have a dislike of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members?
 
So are you trying to deny the brainwashing parents do to their toddlers with feeding them "testi-mommies", teaching them to say things they not only do NOT testify to, but don't even understand?

That is TEXTBOOK "brainwashing".


 
We are justified before God by grace alone.
That is not true because you don't have access to any blessings ( such as your god's so-called grace) until you earn each and every blessing by obedience to laws.

2 Nephi 25:23: “For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”

Your hatred of Christian teachings is showing and your struggles at manipulating Mormon teachings into apostacy from past prophets are also very telling.
 
That is not true because you don't have access to any blessings (such as your god's so-called grace) until you earn each and every blessing by obedience to laws.

2 Nephi 25:23: “For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”

Your hatred of Christian teachings is showing and your struggles at manipulating Mormon teachings into apostacy from past prophets are also very telling.





After All We Can Do” Doesn’t Mean What You Think It Means


For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” (2 Nephi 25:23; emphasis added)

Now, we discuss at length what Nephi actually means by this statement in a different post, but let’s keep this one simple.

Many members of the Church think this scripture means that we must do everything that is possible to do to “earn our part” of salvation and only after we have completely exhausted ourselves physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually will Jesus come in with His grace and “make up the difference”; and pay the “rest of the price” of our salvation. The part that we couldn’t pay ourselves.

This idea is false.

This is not how salvation is obtained.

Let’s use an analogy to illustrate the truth.

Let’s pretend that we must have a ticket to get into the celestial kingdom. The Ticket of Salvation, if you will. Let’s say, for the sake of the analogy, that this ticket costs $100 (obviously it would be an infinitely larger number).

Now, many of us have understood salvation to be something like we must work as hard as we can to earn some pre-determined amount of that $100 by keeping the commandments and doing good works. (This is how we traditionally have understood being saved by grace “after all we can do”. That there is a portion of our salvation that we must earn by doing all we can do.)

We may have thought that if we worked as hard as we could our whole lives that we would be able to pay maybe a dollar, or even two, of that ticket price, and if we met that price, then Jesus would come in and pay the remaining $98. But only if we met our price first.

That is not how it works! Jesus has paid the ENTIRE $100 for every person. He has purchased the ticket for you. The ENTIRE thing. It is paid for.

That is why the scriptures say that we rely “wholly” (2 Nephi 31:19), “only” (2 Nephi 10:24), and “alone upon the merits of Christ” (Moroni 6:4).

Now Jesus comes to you and asks you to do something—to meet some conditions—so He can give you the ticket. He says that you must have faith in Him (see John 3:16; Mosiah 3:9, 12) and repent of your sins (see Alma 42:13, Helaman 5:11) and that if you do these things you will be saved. By grace.

Remember, He has already paid the entire price of the ticket. He has already earned salvation for you. He is not asking you to pay Him back or pay a part of the ticket price. All He asks of you is to have faith in Him and repent of your sins and then He will give you the ticket that He earned for you.

When we keep any of the commandments or do any good work, it isn’t paying any portion of that ticket price. We don’t keep the commandments to earn salvation. We keep them for a much different reason!

The ticket is paid for. Salvation is earned. Totally. When we keep the commandments, it should be because we love Jesus (see John 14:15). It should be because it is our nature to keep them.

You see, when we truly have faith in Him and we truly repent of our sins, the Holy Ghost comes into our lives and changes our hearts so that we “have no more disposition to do evil, but to do good continually” (see Mosiah 5:2).

Jesus calls this being born again and He says we must experience this change of heart or we cannot dwell with God (see John 3:3).

Do you get it? Do you see the incredible gift that our Savior has given us? We are saved 100% by His grace apart from all we can do. But we are also changed by His grace so that we can do more! So that we are more! So that we can become like He is!

Being saved by grace doesn’t mean that we don’t need to keep the commandments. It changes our nature so that we can and will keep them.

In conclusion, the gospel should not be a stress. It should not be a strain. It should be empowering and joyful.

Please don’t keep the commandments out of fear, obligation, or with an idea that you need to earn some portion of your salvation.

Focus on having faith in Jesus and repenting of your sins. That is what allows Christ to change your heart. And once that change has happened, keeping the commandments will become second nature to you.

Have faith and repent. Every day.

That truly is all we can do.

“… it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain” (Alma 24:11, emphasis added)

— — —

For a more thorough examination of grace and its connection to Nephi’s phrase “after all we can do”, including words from ancient and modern prophets, please click here.
 
If you believe that to be true--then why don't the critics here accept His testimony?

I am not responsible for what other people believe. For sure, I WILL NOT debate a Christian (assuming that you are referring to a real Christian,) and not a Mormon. on the Mormon board. Nice try on attempting to get me to violate the rules of CARM
 
Please don’t keep the commandments out of fear, obligation, or with an idea that you need to earn some portion of your salvation....
We don’t keep the commandments to earn salvation.


Baloney! You've ignored your leaders!

“The demands of justice for broken law can be satisfied through mercy, earned by your continual repentance and obedience to the laws of God. Such repentance and obedience are absolutely essential for the Atonement to work its complete miracle in your life.”
Mormon Apostle Richard G. Scott, “The Atonement Can Secure Your Peace and Happiness,” Ensign (Conference Edition), November 2006, p.42
 
Obedience is the basic law of heaven, and obedience to specific laws will result in specific blessings, culminating in the greatest blessing, as Elder Marion G. Romney explained: “The perfection upon which exaltation hangs, I repeat, is an individual matter. It is conditioned upon the observance of celestial laws as they apply to earth life. The Word of Wisdom is one of them, so also are chastity, tithing, observance of the Sabbath day, prayer, honesty, industry, love of God and fellow men, patience, kindness, charity, and all the rest of the principles and ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Each individual who observes one or more of these laws shall receive the blessings predicated thereon, and each Church member who will, with all the energy of his soul, diligently strive to live them all, shall receive the blessings predicated upon such striving. Eternal life, the greatest gift of God, is that blessing, and it will follow the living of the gospel as the night the day, regardless of statistics or averages, or of what others think or say or do.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1956, pp. 15–16; see also Enrichment G in the Appendix.)

“Section 130, Items of Instruction,” Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual (2002), 321–24
 
Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed today or do you just have a dislike of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members?

I LIKE MORMONS, and that is why I tell them the truth about their cult, meaning it was founded by a known liar and con man, namely JS, and perpetuated by additional lies and liars.

I am not responsible for the evils of Smith, but for sure, I am responsible to tell the LDS people the nature and history of their religion.
 
Baloney! You've ignored your leaders!

“The demands of justice for broken law can be satisfied through mercy, earned by your continual repentance and obedience to the laws of God. Such repentance and obedience are absolutely essential for the Atonement to work its complete miracle in your life.” Mormon Apostle Richard G. Scott, “The Atonement Can Secure Your Peace and Happiness,” Ensign (Conference Edition),November 2006,p.42


John 15:10–14

If you keep my commandments,you will abide in my love,just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. These things I have spoken to you,that my joy may be in you,and that your joy may be full. This is my commandment,that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this,that someone lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you.
 
John 15:10-14 doesn't contradict Christianity. Mormonism does.


The Apostle Peter also made it clear that baptism is a commandment for all people:“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” Acts 2:38
 
John 15:10-14 doesn't contradict Christianity. Mormonism does.

Is repentance required for salvation. According to the Scriptures the answer is absolutely yes.


  • Jesus says, “I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance” (Luke 5:32)
  • Jesus told his disciples to proclaim “repentance and forgiveness of sins” in his name to all the nations (Luke 24:47).
  • When the apostles preached in Acts, they called people to repent of their sins in order to be forgiven (See Acts 2:38;3:19;8:32;17:30;20:21;26:20).
  • The apostle Paul makes it clear that those whose lives are characterized by sin “will not inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; see also Romans 8:12-13;Galatians 5:21;Ephesians 5:5).
 
In Mormonism, members are not under the law of Moses. They are obligated to obey the laws and ordinances of Mormonism.

So how does Romans 3:21-24 exempt a Mormon from meeting the requirements for eternal life?

There is only one requirement for eternal life. Having our hearts changed through faith in his name; thereby being born of him and becoming his sons and his daughters having no more disposition to do evil.
 
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