Covenantbreakers

Theo1689

Well-known member
But it works, who but God has all truths.

If by "working" you mean driving people away from the LDS church in droves...

Ask man and you get a man's answer, ask God and you get Truth... I don't need a Chapel to do honest research, and when asked how I came to my conclusions... well, do your own study and then ask God.

Mormonism contradicts the Bible in EVERY way.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Before pointing fingers at us, do your own repair work of Christians leaving in droves... how's it working for Calvinist?

<Chuckle>

Derailing discussion AWAY from Mormonism yet again.
You're VERY embarrassed by it, aren't you?
 

Mesenja

Well-known member

You are correct that eternal security is not part of our doctrinal beliefs and rightly so as it is false doctrine. However, learning to follow the first principles and ordinances of the gospel and seeking to follow Christ for the rest of our lives is part of the gospel. It is enduring to the end or not grow weary of doing good.

Matthew 24:13
13
But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Galatians 6:9-10
9
And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up. 10 So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith.

I have every right as does dberrie2020 to challenge Janice Bower to support the claims that she makes. You have a very novel way of debating. and yes Theo1689 to reiterate once again this is a debate. If your Latter-day Saint opponent on this forum challenges any position being taken your go-to response is:
I wasn't aware that "eternal security" was a Mormon doctrine. Or have you forgotten that this is the "Mormonism" forum? But as usual, Mormons know that Mormonism is bankrupt and indefensible, which is why they don't even TRY to defend it (they can't), and so instead, they simply attack the beliefs of any critic who rejects Mormonism.

In the words of Enid Strict, better known as The Church Lady, "Well...isn't that convenient"
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
You are correct that eternal security is not part of our doctrinal beliefs

Then you need to stop bringing it up.

I have every right as does dberrie2020 to challenge Janice Bower to support the claims that she makes. You have a very novel way of debating. and yes Theo1689 to reiterate once again this is a debate. If your Latter-day Saint opponent on this forum challenges any position being taken your go-to response is:

Sorry, but that doesn't work.

This is the Mormonism forum. It is for discussing/debating MORMONISM.
This is NOT the "Evangelical Christianity" forum.
There IS a forum that is appropriate for discussing those topics.
Unfortunately for you, this is NOT that forum.

So it is correct and proper to call out Mormons for RUNNING AWAY from discussion of Momronism in the Mormonism forum.
But it is NOT correct or proper to bring up OFF-TOPIC doctrines, and attack Christians when we refuse to enable your lame attempts to derail discussion.
 

Mesenja

Well-known member
Then you need to stop bringing it up.

Why? Learning to follow the first principles and ordinances of the gospel and seeking to follow Christ for the rest of our lives is part of the gospel message. It is called enduring to the end or not growing weary of doing good. What isn't part of the gospel message, is the belief that from the moment anyone becomes a Christian, they will be saved from hell, and will not lose salvation. We believe in the former while you mistakenly believe in the latter.

Sorry, but that doesn't work.

Yes, it doesn't work since apparently your get out of jail free card just fill in the doctrine of choice is:

Theo1689 said:
I wasn't aware that "eternal security" was a Mormon doctrine. Or have you forgotten that this is the "Mormonism" forum?

Yes, I am aware that this is the Mormon Forum. Thanks for stating the obvious. Sadly this is a debate, not Monopoly. Perhaps it isn't so obvious to you that seeking to follow the first principles and ordinances of the gospel and seeking to follow Christ for the rest of our lives is part of the gospel that we teach.

This is the Mormonism forum. It is for discussing/debating MORMONISM.

Yes, I know. This is exactly what I'm doing.

This is NOT the "Evangelical Christianity" forum. There IS a forum that is appropriate for discussing those topics. Unfortunately for you, this is NOT that forum.

Quite the opposite. I am fortunate that I am posting in the Mormon Forum and not the Evangelical Christianity Forum.

So it is correct and proper to call out Mormons for RUNNING AWAY from discussion of Momronism in the Mormonism forum.
But it is NOT correct or proper to bring up OFF-TOPIC doctrines,

:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

Richard7

Well-known member
<Chuckle>

Derailing discussion AWAY from Mormonism yet again.
You're VERY embarrassed by it, aren't you?
And yet you do not acknowledge the flood of Christians leaving... criticism goes both ways, dude...you observations are obviously very selective...
 

Richard7

Well-known member
Then you need to stop bringing it up.



Sorry, but that doesn't work.

This is the Mormonism forum. It is for discussing/debating MORMONISM.
This is NOT the "Evangelical Christianity" forum.
There IS a forum that is appropriate for discussing those topics.
Unfortunately for you, this is NOT that forum.

So it is correct and proper to call out Mormons for RUNNING AWAY from discussion of Momronism in the Mormonism forum.
But it is NOT correct or proper to bring up OFF-TOPIC doctrines, and attack Christians when we refuse to enable your lame attempts to derail discussion.
Oh such a chuckle...
 

Mesenja

Well-known member
Oh such a chuckle...

Yes, it certainly is. I would love to see Theo1689 in a formal debate with someone who is well prepared, skilled as a debater, knowledgeable on the topic and use the same dismissive argument he just used against me. That would be more than a chuckle.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Yes, it certainly is. I would love to see Theo1689 in a formal debate with someone who is well prepared, skilled as a debater, knowledgeable on the topic and use the same dismissive argument he just used against me. That would be more than a chuckle.

So you would like to arrange me debating someone on Mormonism, and then when I show up, your guy will start debating me on something off-topic, like Mongolian throat singing? And if I object, you would claim I'm being "dismissive"?

Sheesh.
 

Mesenja

Well-known member
So you would like to arrange me debating someone on Mormonism, and then when I show up, your guy will start debating me on something off-topic, like Mongolian throat singing? And if I object, you would claim I'm being "dismissive"?
Sheesh

I would like to see you debate anyone and use the same fallacious argument you used against me. If you disagree with any doctrinal point that I hold to be true then you are off-topic and avoiding defending your faith. Do you realize how asinine that sounds? Perhaps you do but rely on it anyway to avoid the debate hoping that we won't notice. Well, I do and so does every other Latter-day Saint who posts on the Mormon Forum. Since you are so fond of quoting the Early Church Fathers which is off-topic and properly belongs on the Catholic Forum debate a Catholic apologist like Patrick Madrid or Robert Sungenis on this topic.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I would like to see you debate anyone and use the same fallacious argument you used against me.

How is pointing out when you go off-topic "fallacious"?
Perhaps you don't understand the meaning of the word.

It's amusing that you apparently think pointing out when someone is being off-topic, it is 'fallacious", but GOING off-topic (which will automatically LOSE any debate) is "proper" or something.

If you disagree with any doctrinal point that I hold to be true then you are off-topic and avoiding defending your faith.

This is incredibly disingenuous of you.
You do not bring bring up doctrinal points that you "hold", you bring up off-topic doctrinal points that you do NOT hold, and want to argue AGAINST.

Like I keep pointing out, this forum is NOT for me to "defend my faith". I'm not a Mormon. There ARE forums for discussing my faith, and you are certainly welcome to criticize my beliefs THERE, but you won't do that, as that doesn't have the result you want, namely derailing discussion AWAY from Mormonism in THIS forum.

Do you realize how asinine that sounds?

Your disingenuous criticisms?
Yeah, incredibly asinine!

Since you are so fond of quoting the Early Church Fathers which is off-topic and properly belongs on the Catholic Forum debate a Catholic apologist like Patrick Madrid or Robert Sungenis on this topic.

<Chuckle>
The only reason I quote the ECF's is to show the HYPOCRISY of Mormons, after THEY first try to quote them to try to prove LDS beliefs true. So it begs the question of why you don't call out your Mormon "brethren" when THEY were the ones who quoted the ECF's first, if you think quoting the ECF's is "off-topic".

In actual fact, I don't have a problem with quoting the ECF's on a particular forum if the goal is try to support that particular forum's belief system. I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy of quoting the ECF's to try to defend a belief in "plural gods", when they REJECT the ECF's testimony regarding sola Scriptura, faith alone, etc. etc.

Trust me, if this forum were evaluated by "Debate" conditions, the Mormons would have been disqualified LONG ago.
 

Richard7

Well-known member
So you would like to arrange me debating someone on Mormonism, and then when I show up, your guy will start debating me on something off-topic, like Mongolian throat singing? And if I object, you would claim I'm being "dismissive"?

Sheesh.
Well if you continue to say this is the wrong forum to discuss your Calvinist doctrine...chuckle.
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
It seems that for the last decade or more, LDS hold differing viewpoints even on essential Mormon Doctrine so that they feel comfortable
in their religion.

I have had more than one LDS person tell me that not all Mormons believe the same things.


RCM
That's the truth! They used to brag about their unity and criticize us for not agreeing on things as if the differences among us was proof that we are wrong.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
I wasn't aware that "eternal security" was a Mormon doctrine.

Or have you forgotten that this is the "Mormonism" forum?

But as usual, Mormons know that Mormonism is bankrupt and indefensible, which is why they don't even TRY to defend it (they can't), and so instead, they simply attack the beliefs of any critic who rejects Mormonism.

There are numerous LDS doctrines which address "eternal security", namely--it's a false doctrine.

And yes, that position is defensible by LDS scripture:

Matthew 10:22---King James Version
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
 

Mesenja

Well-known member
Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Too bad Mormons don't believe Scripture. While Christians depend on Christ, Mormons depend on their own "good works".

no flesh can dwell in God’s presence, save through merits of the Messiah, 2 Nephi 2:8

rely wholly upon merits of him who is mighty to save, 2 Nephi 31:19

since man had fallen, he could not merit anything of himself, Alma 22:14

God has taken away guilt from hearts through merits of his Son, Alma 24:10

have remission of sins through Christ’s merits, Helaman 14:13

rely alone upon merits of Christ, Moroni 6:4


rely upon merits of Christ, Doctrine & Covenants 3:20
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member

no flesh can dwell in God’s presence, save through merits of the Messiah, 2 Nephi 2:8

rely wholly upon merits of him who is mighty to save, 2 Nephi 31:19

since man had fallen, he could not merit anything of himself, Alma 22:14

God has taken away guilt from hearts through merits of his Son, Alma 24:10

have remission of sins through Christ’s merits, Helaman 14:13

rely alone upon merits of Christ, Moroni 6:4


rely upon merits of Christ, Doctrine & Covenants 3:20
Too bad our critics don't know what we believe.
 

Mesenja

Well-known member
Too bad our critics don't know what we believe.
They chose not to believe as it doesn't fit with their agenda of tearing down fallacious strawman arguments and then doing a victory lap is taking the easy way out. If they argued against our actual soteriology they would stand in direct opposition to the Bible.
 
Top