Covenantbreakers

Bonnie

Super Member
Did I ask you to judge RCM. Do you relish the gotcha moment that much that you're always trying to find fault with me?
Uh, no...just trying to figure out why you even brought up judging RCM...I wasn't finding fault with anyone. Why so prickly?
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
Those hand gestures appear to be ready to make a slashing movement across the throat, to indicate that the participant would have their throats slit, rather than reveal what they experienced in the temple endowment....such gestures, along with the 5-point fellowship touching, were removed in 1990...the all over anointing with oil and water was discontinued in 2005...so many changes in a ceremony that Smith claimed came from God and must not be changed...
It's absolutely amazing how weird cults can get and yet people for fall it. My hope is that the Guests that come here hoping to find out the truth about Mormonism will be enlightened. The people that post here and think they're defending Mormonism do not realize how sad they look and that they're fighting a losing battle. Any guest reading the posts here can see that easily. And by the way as I'm sure you know most of the time the guests here outnumber the members. So we got to keep plugging away!

And thanks for good info on the hand gestures and how they continually change things up in Mormonism. As we know the truth never changes the lie continues to change.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
The answer to my question is no it wasn't required that the rich young man keep the commandments faultlessly.
It isn't? But if one wants to be justified by keeping the commandments, then one MUST keep them faultlessly:

For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them. (Gal. 3)

So, anyone who tries to be justified by keeping the Law is under a curse to keep it PERFECTLY. IF we do NOT, we become Lawbreakers--don't we, Mesenja? What did James say? "If we keep the whole law but stumble in one point, we are guilty of ALL of it."

So, even breaking ONE law means we have broken ALL OF THEM. They are intertwined, interconnected. Break one, we break then ALL! SO...what was Jesus trying to show the young man? DID the young mean REALLY keep all of the commandments since childhood? IF that had been true, he would have NOT felt that something was lacking, would he? Because he would be righteous before God for keeping ALL of the commandments.

But he didn't, did he? Jesus knew the state of his heart--so that is why He told the young man "You lack one thing--sell all that you have, give it to the poor, and follow Me."

We know what happened, don't we? The young man went sadly away, for he was rich--he put his riches over following Jesus, which proved just how short he really was in keeping the commandments--he broke the first and most important one and had made money his god.

I think Jesus was showing the young man just how far short of perfection he really had been. Had he done what Jesus asked, he would have been saved--but he rejected Jesus in favor of his wealth.

Jesus knows we cannot keep the commandments perfectly. That is why HE had to come and suffer and die on the cross, and rise again from the dead. HE kept the commandments PERFECTLY in our stead. And THAT perfection--righteousness--is credited to us BY FAITH in Him--HIS righteousness is then transferred to US as our own! What an exchange! On the cross, Jesus exchanged HIS righteous, perfect keeping of the Law, for OUR lawlessness, for OUR sins! What a Savior!

Two ways to be saved to heaven, Mesenja:

1. Keep all of God's commandments perfectly, never once stumbling, from birth to death...

OR

2. Trust and believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and God and Savior, and have HIS perfect keeping of the commandments transferred to us by grace through faith in HIM....Which do you think is more sure?
 

Mesenja

Active member
Mesenja,

A contingency plan for LDS? Not according to your religion or its leaders as salvation is by works and works is following the law and there is no grace in law (Romans 11:6, But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

If you want a contingency plan, check out Galatians 2:16-21 and 1 John 1:5-10 that I posted previously.

RCM

Still no answer then to my question can you sin and still be saved.

Here's 2 more questions.

1. What is the purpose and need for repentance?
2. What is the purpose of the sacrament?
 

Mesenja

Active member
Because Mormons are incapable of answering questions.They lose 10 I.Q. points for each month they continue being Mormon.

Don't you believe that God works through the Holy Spirit to bring about the salvation of an individual through spiritual regeneration,regardless of the individual's cooperation.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Still no answer then to my question can you sin and still be saved.

Here's 2 more questions.

1. What is the purpose and need for repentance?
2. What is the purpose of the sacrament?
Yes we sin daily, do we not? But we are no longer slaves to our sinful nature, for we have been been made a new creation in Christ Jesus our Lord, and the indwelling HS changes us, so that we want to do what pleases God--not because we MUST, but because we WANT to. What did Paul say?

20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!

Was Paul saved? :)

We need to repent of our sins, which is humbling, and only by being humbled can we receive the gift of God's forgiveness..."God opposes the proud, but shows favor to the humble." Only when we are humble, and admit that we are helpless to save ourselves can we then even feel the need to repent. The HS convicts us of our sins, but HE also enables us to repent of them, for no one is going to repent of sins to a God in whom they have no faith.

The sacraments of Holy Baptism and the Lord's Supper are for the forgiveness of sins, means of grace. But this discussion on sacraments is more for another board or boards, not here.
 
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Mesenja

Active member
Yes we sin daily, do we not? But we are no longer slaves to our sinful nature, for we have been been made a new creation in Christ Jesus our Lord, and the indwelling HS changes us, so that we want to do what pleases God--not because we MUST, but because we WANT to. What did Paul say?

Was Paul saved? :)

We need to repent of our sins, which is humbling, and only by being humbled can we receive the gift of God's forgiveness..."God opposes the proud, but shows favor to the humble." Only when we are humble, and admit that we are helpless to save ourselves can we then even feel the need to repent. The HS convicts us of our sins, but HE also enables us to repent of them, for no one is going to repent of sins to a God in whom they have no faith.

The sacraments of Holy Baptism and the Lord's Supper are for the forgiveness of sins, means of grace. But this discussion on sacraments is more for another board or boards, not here.

Not so. The principle of repentance, the ordinance of baptism along with the sacrament are very much relevant to the topic of salvation.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
LDS who are baptized have taken a vow that promises to keep all the laws and commandments of God.
I sense that we're about to be entertained by a whole slew of laws and commandments that we're not keeping. :rolleyes:
Each Sunday when they partake of the sacrament they re-pledge and renew that vow again as they commit their allegiance and faithfulness as they
promise and covenant that they will keep all of God's commandments.
No. We don't.
All means all with no exceptions
The word "all" is not issued in a vacuum. Specifically, it does not mean that you or anyone else gets to pick what falls within that realm.
But, I guess if the LDS god who was once a fallen sinful man
That may be what you believe, but it's not what we believe. God the Father, just like Jesus, His Son, never sinned. But both were once mortal men, the same as we mortal, i.e. They could die, feel pain and joy, be cut and bleed, eat and drink, etc... none of which are sins.

I was wrong as I stated in the beginning. This wasn't entertaining. It wasn't even a coherent argument. He starts out making the claim that we have to do everything perfectly (or that we teach that) and then ends by pointing out that we don't have to and doesn't support either argument. :rolleyes:
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
My hope is that the Guests that come here hoping to find out the truth about Mormonism will be enlightened. The people that post here and think they're defending Mormonism do not realize how sad they look and that they're fighting a losing battle. Any guest reading the posts here can see that easily. And by the way as I'm sure you know most of the time the guests here outnumber the members. So we got to keep plugging away!
Not answering questions in Mormonism must be contagious

Mormons talk about a “burning in the bosom” that will confirm their outlandish claim claims. Yet the trouble with subjective, inner feelings is that they can be deceptive.

The Bible tells us that “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” (Jeremiah 17:9).

It also says, “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death” (Proverbs 14:12).

So how can we trust our feelings the way Mormons would have us believe? That little sweet “burning in the bosom” that will lead you As far from the Bible and Almighty God as you get. The truth is you can't and they really can't back up any of their claims because in reality they are elaborate deceptions.

Now the real question is, Did Joseph Smith teach men to follow a god other than the one in the Bible?

Why he most certainly did...A false god and A false religion!

As far as the identity of the Mormon god, it is obvious from there own teaching that their god is:

1. an exalted, resurrected man, in possession of a physical, but glorified body.

2. evolved from a normal human male.

3. limited in both power and knowledge.

4. subject to gods above him.

5. unable to create something out of nothing.


Most Mormon missionaries will admit to these false doctrines stated above , and they can all be found in the standard writings of LDS prophets. On the other hand, the biblical God


1. is a Spirit (John 4:24),

2. is not a man, nor the son of a man (Numbers 23:19).

3. is all powerful (Habakkuk 3:6; Matthew 19:26) and all-knowing (Psalm 1475; Hebrews 4:13; 1 John 3:20).

4. says there are no other gods before Himself (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6–8).

5. made the entire universe from nothing (Genesis 1:1, 2; Hebrews 11:3).

It is clear that in these five key areas the Mormon god and the God of the Bible are exact opposites; they cannot possibly be the same being. This means that Joseph Smith preached a false god, and that makes him a false prophet. It is that simple.

And this is why Mormons are incapable of answering questions. A person can remember the truth but are deception is a lot harder. It's hard to remember who you told what perpetrating massive deception like Mormonism.

That's why here you can get Mormons to focus on anything pertaining to the truth. Because they don't have the truth. Therefore all one gets from them is a whole lota shucking & jiving...which is what people well versed in the art of deception to best. You see here everyday.
 

Mesenja

Active member
Mormons talk about a “burning in the bosom” that will confirm their outlandish claim claims. Yet the trouble with subjective, inner feelings is that they can be deceptive.

The Bible tells us that “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” (Jeremiah 17:9).

It also says, “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death” (Proverbs 14:12).

So how can we trust our feelings the way Mormons would have us believe? That little sweet “burning in the bosom” that will lead you As far from the Bible and Almighty God as you get. The truth is you can't and they really can't back up any of their claims because in reality they are elaborate deceptions.

Now the real question is, Did Joseph Smith teach men to follow a god other than the one in the Bible?

Why he most certainly did...A false god and A false religion!

As far as the identity of the Mormon god, it is obvious from there own teaching that their god is:

1. an exalted, resurrected man, in possession of a physical, but glorified body.

2. evolved from a normal human male.

3. limited in both power and knowledge.

4. subject to gods above him.

5. unable to create something out of nothing.


Most Mormon missionaries will admit to these false doctrines stated above , and they can all be found in the standard writings of LDS prophets. On the other hand, the biblical God


1. is a Spirit (John 4:24),

2. is not a man, nor the son of a man (Numbers 23:19).

3. is all powerful (Habakkuk 3:6; Matthew 19:26) and all-knowing (Psalm 1475; Hebrews 4:13; 1 John 3:20).

4. says there are no other gods before Himself (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6–8).

5. made the entire universe from nothing (Genesis 1:1, 2; Hebrews 11:3).

It is clear that in these five key areas the Mormon god and the God of the Bible are exact opposites; they cannot possibly be the same being. This means that Joseph Smith preached a false god, and that makes him a false prophet. It is that simple.

And this is why Mormons are incapable of answering questions. A person can remember the truth but are deception is a lot harder. It's hard to remember who you told what perpetrating massive deception like Mormonism.

That's why here you can get Mormons to focus on anything pertaining to the truth. Because they don't have the truth. Therefore all one gets from them is a whole lota shucking & jiving...which is what people well versed in the art of deception to best. You see here everyday.

Do you want to get back to your OP or do you need to rail a little bit more against Latter-day saints theology? Take your time. We'll still be here when you're ready to do so.
 
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