Covenantbreakers

RCM

Active member
Where is it taught in the Bible that you have to keep the commandments flawlessly?

Mesenja,

Galatians 5:1-4 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision (Law), Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Galatians 2:21 For if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Philippians 3:2-11 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision (Promoters of the Law); for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless. But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.


The Law in the whole Bible, both OT and NT is set as a standard of Holiness and Righteousness that is required of the Biblical God for you to be in His presence.

Use some of your critical thinking skills here,

The Bible offers you two choices for salvation, (1) Keep the whole law without fail and without exception, which you cannot do, or (2) Come to Jesus for forgiveness and salvation by faith, because He kept the law perfectly, and then was put to death in your place, for you the sinner who cannot keep the law, Jesus died!


RCM
 
Last edited:

John t

Super Member
Yes but you never explained how this supports your position that we have to keep all the commandments flawlessly.
More STUPID Mormo-games!

How the heck am I supposed to explain to your satisfaction what the words in YOUR BoM state and what your teachers.

NOTE The adjective describes the GAMES, and NOT any Mormon person.
 

Mesenja

Active member
I would like to start out by saying that I have a far greater knowledge of what the Book of Mormon teaches than you do. Perhaps if you understand the definition of the word faultless it would help improve your debating skills.

faultless
adjective

perfect and without any mistakes:

I hope this helps you. You seem to have conflated two strawman arguments. I know they are similar but still, at the end of the day, it's lazy argumentation on your part.
 

Mesenja

Active member
Mesenja,

Galatians 5:1-4 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision (Law), Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Galatians 2:21 For if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Philippians 3:2-11 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision (Promoters of the Law); for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless. But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.


The Law in the whole Bible, both OT and NT is set as a standard of Holiness and Righteousness that is required of the Biblical God for you to be in His presence.

Use some of your critical thinking skills here,

The Bible offers you two choices for salvation, (1) Keep the whole law without fail and without exception, which you cannot do, or (2) Come to Jesus for forgiveness and salvation by faith, because He kept the law perfectly, and then was put to death in your place, for you the sinner who cannot keep the law, Jesus died!




You still haven't shown why Latter-day Saints are required to keep all the commandments without fault.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
This is true. But to clarify, the good deeds of love FOLLOW a true and living faith.
It amazes me that you all don't seem to understand that if the "good deeds" don't "FOLLOW" true and living faith, then there is no faith and no salvation. That clearly identifies that the hinge the door to salvation swings on is works. No one can lip service their way into the kingdom of God.
 

RCM

Active member
You still haven't shown why Latter-day Saints are required to keep all the commandments without fault.

Mesenja,

The following was in the original post, I guess you missed it


D&C 82:7 states, "Unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return,"

D&C 88:22 states, "For he who is not able to abide to the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory."

Clearly, LDS Scripture states that, "Those who receive forgiveness and then repeat the sin are held accountable for their former sins."

Clearly, LDS Scripture states that, "If you cannot keep the celestial covenant vow in this life, you do not deserve celestial glory."



RCM
 

Bonnie

Super Member
It amazes me that you all don't seem to understand that if the "good deeds" don't "FOLLOW" true and living faith, then there is no faith and no salvation. That clearly identifies that the hinge the door to salvation swings on is works. No one can lip service their way into the kingdom of God.
But we DO understand that! We have said repeatedly on here that a true and living faith WILL result in works of love towards others....but those works themselves do NOT save us! FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST DOES!

Theo dealt with this quite thoroughly here:

A Mormon tries to attack "Faith Alone" | CARM Forums

And here, post no. 99:

A Mormon tries to attack "Faith Alone" | Page 5 | CARM Forums

"For it is by grace you are saved; through faith--and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God--and NOT by works, so no one may boast."

What did Paul write saves us?

"He saved us, NOT on the basis of works we have done in righteousness, but on account of His mercy." (Tit. 3)

WHY did God save us? On account of our good works? OR on account of SOMETHING ELSE? What did Paul write in Titus 3, boJ?

"Your FAITH has saved you; go in peace." (Luke 7:50). What did Jesus actually say saved the woman, in THIS verse? Did HE add anything to what saved the woman, besides that one word, which Mormons seem actually to hate?
 

John t

Super Member
Mesenja,

The following was in the original post, I guess you missed it


D&C 82:7 states, "Unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return,"

D&C 88:22 states, "For he who is not able to abide to the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory."

Clearly, LDS Scripture states that, "Those who receive forgiveness and then repeat the sin are held accountable for their former sins."

Clearly, LDS Scripture states that, "If you cannot keep the celestial covenant vow in this life, you do not deserve celestial glory."



RCM

There is nothing like their own words to torpedo their boats of heresies
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
All I am aware of with certainty is that he would strongly disagree with a person who wakes up every morning saying "Oh thank you, God, for the luck that has saved me."

So who has said that?

Since this is the MORMONISM forum, and we're supposed to be discussing MORMONISM, I can only conclude that you are speaking of what MORMONS believe.

Strange...
 

Mesenja

Active member
So who has said that? Since this is the MORMONISM forum, and we're supposed to be discussing MORMONISM, I can only conclude that you are speaking of what MORMONS believe. Strange...

Strange that you failed to see a sarcastic remark aimed at you.
 
Top