COVID 19 Vaccinations and Fetal Tissue. Origin Source, Dead Fetus. HeLa Cells

[Harry Leggs]

Coronavirus Vaccines & Fetal Cell Lines: Pro-Life Americans Should Be Guided by Scientific Facts | National Review​

First, it’s important to identify the provenance of the cells used in testing. In the case of both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, it was HEK 293 kidney cells that were used. These are believed to have originated with an abortion, but note my use of the singular. HEK 293s are not continuously gathered as more abortions are performed. They were originally gleaned from a 1973 procedure in the Netherlands and have since been reproduced in labs for various research purposes.

How making a COVID-19 vaccine confronts thorny ethical issues

COVID-19 vaccines will face plenty of ethical questions. Concerns arise long before anything is loaded into a syringe.

www.sciencenews.org

Immortalized cell lines are crucial for many different types of biomedical research, not just vaccines. They’ve been used to study diabetes, hypertension, Alzheimer’s and much more. Some are human cells, but many also come from animal models. For example, many COVID-19 studies — beyond just those related to vaccines — are using Vero cells, a cell line derived from the kidney of an African green monkey, Rasmussen says.


Two common immortalized cell lines go by the monikers HEK-293 and HeLa.* HEK-293 is a cell line isolated from a human embryo that was electively aborted in the Netherlands in 1973. Catholic leaders and other antiabortion groups have objected to the use of HEK-293 in the development of some COVID-19 vaccine candidates. Cells derived from elective abortions, including HEK-293, have been used to develop vaccines, including rubella, hepatitis A, chickenpox and more. Other fetal cell lines, such as the proprietary cell line PER.C6, are also used in vaccine development, including for COVID-19.

* HeLa cells were derived from a black woman named Henrietta Lacks, they were taken without her knowledge or consent. Her family was subsequently denied access to her medical files or say in who received the cells or what they would be used for. It follows that the popularity and sustained usage of this cell line yielded no financial benefit for the family. HeLa cells are so ubiquitous in research that avoiding bi-products is nearly impossible, but it is telling that an article directly concerning the ethical origins of various vaccine options failed to mention Henrietta Lack's story.

In the case of HeLa cells, the ethical problems began the day the cells were taken from Lacks, who was never told that her cells might be used for experimentation. “There was no informed consent. She wasn’t aware, and her family wasn’t aware,” says Yolonda Wilson, a bioethicist at Howard University in Washington, D.C. “The use of this Black woman’s body has I think contributed to a kind of cultural memory of mistrusting health institutions among Black folks,” she says. “It’s not this one-off … it’s a larger narrative of disrespecting Black patients, using Black people and Black bodies in experiments.”
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Ethical and Trust Issues. People need to be informed. Comments and who is willing to roll up their arm? There is also animal parts used in conjunction with the development of vaccines which comes with its own nightmare issues regarding long-term consequences and animal to human transmissions. To quote Judy Mikovitz.

Scientists aren’t worried about their popularity. They worry if their ideas are true.

 

[Whateverman]

What's your point?

 

[Furion]

What's your point?

Rational people make up their own minds, rather than mandates or assurances from strangers like you and others here.

 

[Faithoverbelief]

Rational people make up their own minds, rather than mandates or assurances from strangers like you and others here.

So far no government mandate that you must vaccinate.

 

[Harry Leggs]

What's your point?

It is more informative than anything else and esp if posters here have children. These are a snapshot of the concoctions they are shooting into the arms of trusting Americans. I opt out because i don't know what is in it and vaccines are unnatural even if there was benefits in the past. It is akin to Russian Roulette or kill or cure.
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When we move to the animals, the problem becomes much worse. We know with scientific certainty that one of the most destructive factors in human history is the jumping of animal viruses into humans. The Pulitzer Prize-winning author Jared Diamond in his book Guns, Germs, and Steel makes the argument that the reason European contact with Native Americans was so devastating is that we had become infected with viruses from our domesticated animals. These came from our horses, our cows, our goats, our dogs, and maybe the rats that bred in our urban areas, especially combined with the fact we lived in large, concentrated cities with poor sanitation.

That’s a perfect recipe for disease creation.

Therefore, we had a group of disease-carrying Europeans arriving on American shores with superior weaponry against a population with none of these advantages. I make the case that what we have done in the laboratory mimics the worst of what happened in European populations and animals in the Middle Ages and then traveled across the ocean. The sad possibility is that our children and immune-compromised are the Native Americans in this scenario. We are mixing animal and human tissue in laboratory cultures, then injecting them into human beings in a way that bypasses their traditional defenses, such as stomach acid breaking down pathogens. Antibiotics, which we give with alarming regularity, are known to dysregulate the bacteria in our digestive system, and there’s strong evidence of harm from many of the chemicals used in vaccines. I understand that to many my concerns might be the first time they’ve considered them. However, on consideration of what I’ve proposed, have I said anything that seems to be unsupported by the scientific facts? Have I made a single remark that convinces you my opinion should not be heard in a courtroom and the truth or falsity of it considered?



Mikovits, Judy. Plague of Corruption: Restoring Faith in the Promise of Science (Children’s Health Defense) (p. 210). Skyhorse. Kindle Edition.

 

[Furion]

So far no government mandate that you must vaccinate.

So what knowledge do you have it will not?

 

[Faithoverbelief]

So what knowledge do you have it will not?

What knowledge do you have it will?

 

[Furion]

What knowledge do you have it will?

As people debate whether corporations or government can or should do it, I will rest in the ambiguous and useless information you provided.

 

[Whateverman]

It is more informative than anything else and esp if posters here have children. These are a snapshot of the concoctions they are shooting into the arms of trusting Americans. I opt out because i don't know what is in it and vaccines are unnatural even if there was benefits in the past. It is akin to Russian Roulette or kill or cure.

Well, that certainly is both your call and your right, to opt out of vaccinations. We can discuss the extremely unlikely scenario of forced vaccination elsewhere.

I will note, however, that you don't know what's in any of the medicine you've ever taken in your life. Sure, like a vaccine, you can understand what the "active ingredient" is, but your examples here are all about everything else - and you don't know what else was gone into the making of the aspirin (et al) you took to get rid of a headache, or the antibacterial you took to get rid of an infection.

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In any case, the article you've cited in this post is hyperbolic, and betrays the author's ignorance of the subject:

I make the case that what we have done in the laboratory mimics the worst of what happened in European populations and animals in the Middle Ages and then traveled across the ocean. The sad possibility is that our children and immune-compromised are the Native Americans in this scenario.​

The case has not been made. The scientists who develop vaccines know whether they contain animal-born diseases or not; they know whether certain people are likely to have immune responses to the contents or not. The vaccines have generally been tested enough to know these things.

Can you list a single vaccine in which the patient caught an animal born disease from?

 

[Temujin]

Can you list a single vaccine in which the patient caught an animal born disease from?

Funnily enough, yes. The very word vaccination comes from the Latin for "cow". The very first vaccinations were designed to deliberately give the subject cowpox, an animal disease which gives protection against smallpox. I should add that the original experiments, which involved deliberately infecting the child of a servant with small pox, were not exactly ethical. Not a good reason for refusing to be vaccinated.

 

[Harry Leggs]

Well, that certainly is both your call and your right, to opt out of vaccinations. We can discuss the extremely unlikely scenario of forced vaccination elsewhere.

I will note, however, that you don't know what's in any of the medicine you've ever taken in your life. Sure, like a vaccine, you can understand what the "active ingredient" is, but your examples here are all about everything else - and you don't know what else was gone into the making of the aspirin (et al) you took to get rid of a headache, or the antibacterial you took to get rid of an infection.

---

In any case, the article you've cited in this post is hyperbolic, and betrays the author's ignorance of the subject:

What author? Mikovitz? How do you know she is ignorant? How ignorant are you?

Okay, so apparently even though I have a PhD in biochemistry, have published more than fifty peer-reviewed articles, changed the treatment of HIV-AIDS impacting the lives of millions, and headed up a lab at the National Cancer Institute, I’m not qualified to be paid the same as other experts in Vaccine Court.

Mikovits, Judy; Heckenlively, Kent. Plague of Corruption: Restoring Faith in the Promise of Science (Children’s Health Defense) (p. 219). Skyhorse. Kindle Edition.

​

Can you list a single vaccine in which the patient caught an animal born disease from?

Yup. Now am strapped for time but you can always go out and buy her book and do your own research.

 

[Furion]

What author? Mikovitz? How do you know she is ignorant? How ignorant are you?

Okay, so apparently even though I have a PhD in biochemistry, have published more than fifty peer-reviewed articles, changed the treatment of HIV-AIDS impacting the lives of millions, and headed up a lab at the National Cancer Institute, I’m not qualified to be paid the same as other experts in Vaccine Court.

Mikovits, Judy; Heckenlively, Kent. Plague of Corruption: Restoring Faith in the Promise of Science (Children’s Health Defense) (p. 219). Skyhorse. Kindle Edition.

Yup. Now am strapped for time but you can always go out and buy her book and do your own research.

If I appeal to Harry Leggs as more authoratative on this subject than anyone on this board, I think I would be correct.

 

[Whateverman]

What author? Mikovitz? How do you know she is ignorant?

The text I quoted; I would have thought that was obvious.

Okay, so apparently even though I have a PhD in biochemistry, have published more than fifty peer-reviewed articles, changed the treatment of HIV-AIDS impacting the lives of millions, and headed up a lab at the National Cancer Institute, I’m not qualified to be paid the same as other experts in Vaccine Court.

Write ignorant things, get called ignorant. Yes.

 

[Temujin]

If I appeal to Harry Leggs as more authoratative on this subject than anyone on this board, I think I would be correct.

If his claims to expertise are true. A more certain authority would be an external expert that all can agree on.

 

[Furion]

If his claims to expertise are true. A more certain authority would be an external expert that all can agree on.

lol

 

[Whateverman]

Funnily enough, yes. The very word vaccination comes from the Latin for "cow". The very first vaccinations were designed to deliberately give the subject cowpox, an animal disease which gives protection against smallpox. I should add that the original experiments, which involved deliberately infecting the child of a servant with small pox, were not exactly ethical. Not a good reason for refusing to be vaccinated.

OK, that was an actually valid answer to my challenge. I guess I meant to ask a different question, but the point was made.

The skepticism of vaccines seems to be based on the fear of catching a disease; rejection of vaccinations in general can also be based on religious/medical ethics, but that's unrelated to the text I quoted (from the OP), so I'll ignore that here. I wanted to know if - with the fear of catching an animal-borne disease from a vaccine - HAS anyone has actually caught one from a modern vaccine? In recent (70 year) history?

I'm qualifying my question, rather than actually asking it of you, someone who's not prone to overt vaccine skepticism.

 

[Temujin]

OK, that was an actually valid answer to my challenge. I guess I meant to ask a different question, but the point was made.

The skepticism of vaccines seems to be based on the fear of catching a disease; rejection of vaccinations in general can also be based on religious/medical ethics, but that's unrelated to the text I quoted (from the OP), so I'll ignore that here. I wanted to know if - with the fear of catching an animal-borne disease from a vaccine - HAS anyone has actually caught one from a modern vaccine? In recent (70 year) history?

I'm qualifying my question, rather than actually asking it of you, someone who's not prone to overt vaccine skepticism.

I'm sorry! I completely understood your point, but couldn't resist showing off. I quite agree with you about modern vaccines.

 

[Harry Leggs]

If his claims to expertise are true. A more certain authority would be an external expert that all can agree on.

They do not all agree and it is a female. Judy Mikovotz who is an outcast. These experts are driven by a lot out outside influences including the risks of career-ending and banishment when going against the establishment. Her book is not all that long.

 

[Faithoverbelief]

They do not all agree and it is a female. Judy Mikovotz who is an outcast. These experts are driven by a lot out outside influences including the risks of career-ending and banishment when going against the establishment. Her book is not all that long.

Oh you mean this person.
Judy Anne Mikovits is an American former research scientist who is known for her discredited medical claims, such as that murine endogenous retroviruses are linked to chronic fatigue syndrome. Wikipedia

 

[Harry Leggs]

OK, that was an actually valid answer to my challenge. I guess I meant to ask a different question, but the point was made.

The skepticism of vaccines seems to be based on the fear of catching a disease; rejection of vaccinations in general can also be based on religious/medical ethics, but that's unrelated to the text I quoted (from the OP), so I'll ignore that here. I wanted to know if - with the fear of catching an animal-borne disease from a vaccine - HAS anyone has actually caught one from a modern vaccine? In recent (70 year) history?

I'm qualifying my question, rather than actually asking it of you, someone who's not prone to overt vaccine skepticism.

One would need to rule out vaccines as a means of transmission from animals to humans. If they include animal in the vaccines and the reciepent comes up with an animal disease (AIDS). How did it get to humans? Many were infected with AIDS from blood transfusions and went on to die.

I don't see how vaccines can be ruled out and do not have confidence they have the capability of screening out stealth animal viruses. They certainly did not in the past and nobody knows the long term effects of these which can lay dormant in the body until triggered and activated. Much of the illness comes from immune response.