Dangerous Ideas?

RiJoRi

Member
Wouldn't you consider a deception to be dangerous? Say...... Satan has an idea to deceive the children of God. Would you not consider that to be dangerous? Isn't false doctrine an idea.......leading God's children astray?
Bringing this to a human level...
An idea is presented to us. We analyze it, and get a good/bad value. We then reject the idea, or accept it, and then take action - sometimes delayed - based on that analysis.

E. g., I have an idea to bop my brother in the nose
Analysis: Sounds good - he stole my candy 20 years ago.
Delay: Wait until he's in reach
Execute: BOP!

You'll notice my analysis may be faulty. Also, my brother is safe from my idea until I execute it. Also, I may reconsider my analysis, and reject it the second time around.

Finally, I would put "belief" in the execution class: I analyze an idea, accept it as valid, and believe it.

As to false doctrine, I can understand the idea without accepting it as true.

Them's me thoughts, and I'm stickin' to 'em until I don't!
 

Oldsaint24

Well-known member
Bringing this to a human level...
An idea is presented to us. We analyze it, and get a good/bad value. We then reject the idea, or accept it, and then take action - sometimes delayed - based on that analysis.

Finally, I would put "belief" in the execution class: I analyze an idea, accept it as valid, and believe it.

As to false doctrine, I can understand the idea without accepting it as true.

Them's me thoughts, and I'm stickin' to 'em until I don't!


But what if the "bad idea" is not realized as bad.......say false doctrine.......and and one accepts the bad idea as a good idea?

That is the problem with a very cleverly designed false doctrine (bad idea) Often it is not realized as false. And one lives his merry life, thinking all is well, not realizing he has been believing/accepting the false doctrine!

Take the example of Matt. 7:21........those many who excitedly come up to Jesus and proclaim, "Lord, Lord!" Without a doubt these many have been deceived. Without a doubt they think their theology is correct. After all they proclaim, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, in your name perform many miracles?" They think all is well and that they have a relationship with Jesus.

Now I ask you.....do you think if you and I went up to these many and told them, "Hey, Jesus does not even know who you are! Actually you have been living a rather sinful life! Which tells us your theology is not correct!" What do you think they would say to us? I can tell you. They would tell us we do not know what we are talking about....that it is our theology that is false......that we are heretics. And why would they say that? Because they have believed in a or many bad ideas and think they know the truth (good idea). But they don't.

Now....what does Jesus tell them? "Depart from Me!" So, you can see that ideas can be bad.....and.......lead to one nasty outcome.
 

Hark

Active member
But what if the "bad idea" is not realized as bad.......say false doctrine.......and and one accepts the bad idea as a good idea?

That is the problem with a very cleverly designed false doctrine (bad idea) Often it is not realized as false. And one lives his merry life, thinking all is well, not realizing he has been believing/accepting the false doctrine!

Take the example of Matt. 7:21........those many who excitedly come up to Jesus and proclaim, "Lord, Lord!" Without a doubt these many have been deceived. Without a doubt they think their theology is correct. After all they proclaim, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, in your name perform many miracles?" They think all is well and that they have a relationship with Jesus.

Now I ask you.....do you think if you and I went up to these many and told them, "Hey, Jesus does not even know who you are! Actually you have been living a rather sinful life! Which tells us your theology is not correct!" What do you think they would say to us? I can tell you. They would tell us we do not know what we are talking about....that it is our theology that is false......that we are heretics. And why would they say that? Because they have believed in a or many bad ideas and think they know the truth (good idea). But they don't.

Now....what does Jesus tell them? "Depart from Me!" So, you can see that ideas can be bad.....and.......lead to one nasty outcome.
In the context of that message per Matthew 7:13-27, that bad idea is broadening the way in coming to God the Father, by including the Holy Spirit as Another Go To God in coming to God the Father by in worship, prayer, and fellowship. That is the bad idea because of the phenomenon that comes by having that focus on the Holy Spirit where believer lose self control and fall per Matthew 7:24-27 even though spectacular claims have come from those phenomenon in Matthew 7:21-23 for why Jesus deny them.

As a former believer would deny Him for why He would deny them, yet He abides in them still per 2 Timothy 2:12-13, is why any saved believer that has an unrepentant iniquity on that foundation will be denied by Him to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven at the rapture event. This is not a loss of salvation, but a loss of being of the firstfruits of the resurrection whereby they are damned as vessels unto dishonor in His House to be resurrected later on after the great tribulation.

The basis for that is how you apply 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 to mean when the spirit is still saved per verse 15 in spite of the body being destroyed by death for defiling it in verses 16-17. This is to happen when God judges His House first in that day of verse 13 towards that reference.

Jesus will not lose any one of all the father has given Him but yet He still warns saved believers to be ready or else. Indeed, they could be abiding in Him as His disciples but find that they are not willing to leave this life and their loved ones behind, thus not considering the cost of discipleship per Luke 14:25-35. Believe it or not, some will not want to leave because they love their lives on earth per Luke 14:15-24. Some will be overcharged by the cares of this life that they feel they cannot leave per Luke 21:33-36. Hardly descriptive of how life will be for saved believers at the end of the great tribulation.

So there is no loss of salvation, but a loss of crowns and becoming a castaway from attending the Marriage Supper in heaven as a vessel unto honor in His House. Thanks to Him, I am praying in trusting Him as My Friend to have me abiding in Him as well as being willing to go when He comes.
 

RiJoRi

Member
O. S. 24 said:
'But what if the "bad idea" is not realized as bad.......say false doctrine.......and and one accepts the bad idea as a good idea?'

This is the case of me wanting to bop (punch) my brother. A bad idea that I have analyzed (as good) and accepted. As I said, I would put "belief" in the' Execution' class. So I see no real difference between believing a bad idea (lusting after a woman) and executing it (committing adultery).

If, however, the idea comes to you, you can still reject it (resisting temptation). And, we can change our minds about something even if we have believed it. And that's where repentance comes in.

It's not the ones who repented of their bad doctrines to whom the Lord will say, "Who are you?" but those who held onto them despite all.

Of course, we both can come up with "Yeah, buts" but that's where I thank God that I am not He!

Again, I know the ideas of Modalism, but that doesn't mean I accept them!
 

Oldsaint24

Well-known member
In the context of that message per Matthew 7:13-27, that bad idea is broadening the way in coming to God the Father, by including the Holy Spirit as Another Go To God in coming to God the Father by in worship, prayer, and fellowship. That is the bad idea because of the phenomenon that comes by having that focus on the Holy Spirit where believer lose self control and fall per Matthew 7:24-27 even though spectacular claims have come from those phenomenon in Matthew 7:21-23 for why Jesus deny them.

As a former believer would deny Him for why He would deny them, yet He abides in them still per 2 Timothy 2:12-13, is why any saved believer that has an unrepentant iniquity on that foundation will be denied by Him to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven at the rapture event. This is not a loss of salvation, but a loss of being of the firstfruits of the resurrection whereby they are damned as vessels unto dishonor in His House to be resurrected later on after the great tribulation.

The basis for that is how you apply 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 to mean when the spirit is still saved per verse 15 in spite of the body being destroyed by death for defiling it in verses 16-17. This is to happen when God judges His House first in that day of verse 13 towards that reference.

Jesus will not lose any one of all the father has given Him but yet He still warns saved believers to be ready or else. Indeed, they could be abiding in Him as His disciples but find that they are not willing to leave this life and their loved ones behind, thus not considering the cost of discipleship per Luke 14:25-35. Believe it or not, some will not want to leave because they love their lives on earth per Luke 14:15-24. Some will be overcharged by the cares of this life that they feel they cannot leave per Luke 21:33-36. Hardly descriptive of how life will be for saved believers at the end of the great tribulation.

So there is no loss of salvation, but a loss of crowns and becoming a castaway from attending the Marriage Supper in heaven as a vessel unto honor in His House. Thanks to Him, I am praying in trusting Him as My Friend to have me abiding in Him as well as being willing to go when He comes.
Matt. 7 text has nothing factual concerning the Holy Spirit. The "many" did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. I am pretty sure they think they did/do......but they did not.

But it is true.....if a child of God does not receive the promised Holy Spirit.....they will not inherit the age to come. Sadly like the many......many children of God fail to overcome love of self and things and fail to receive the conditional promised Holy Spirit.
 

Oldsaint24

Well-known member
O. S. 24 said:
'But what if the "bad idea" is not realized as bad.......say false doctrine.......and and one accepts the bad idea as a good idea?'

This is the case of me wanting to bop (punch) my brother. A bad idea that I have analyzed (as good) and accepted. As I said, I would put "belief" in the' Execution' class. So I see no real difference between believing a bad idea (lusting after a woman) and executing it (committing adultery).

If, however, the idea comes to you, you can still reject it (resisting temptation). And, we can change our minds about something even if we have believed it. And that's where repentance comes in.

It's not the ones who repented of their bad doctrines to whom the Lord will say, "Who are you?" but those who held onto them despite all.

Of course, we both can come up with "Yeah, buts" but that's where I thank God that I am not He!

Again, I know the ideas of Modalism, but that doesn't mean I accept them!
If the child of God follows false dogma that hinders them from inheriting the age to come.......there is a severe consequence. That is how ideas can and are dangerous.
 

Hark

Active member
Matt. 7 text has nothing factual concerning the Holy Spirit. The "many" did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. I am pretty sure they think they did/do......but they did not.
Jesus is addressing false prophets coming into the churches in Matthew 7:13-27 by which that iniquity of broadening the way can be seen by including the worship of the Holy Spirit with the father & the Son because of how those in these apostate movements of the "spirit" which they believe is the Holy Spirit, can make claims of the spectacular as listed in Matthew 7:21-23 and yet the reason why they lose self control & fall per Matthew 7:24-27. All the guideposts are met for why that is identifying the broadening f the way by including the worship of the Holy Spirit with the father & the Son which scripture never taught us to do but only to honor the Son in order to honor the Father. John 5:22-23
But it is true.....if a child of God does not receive the promised Holy Spirit.....they will not inherit the age to come. Sadly like the many......many children of God fail to overcome love of self and things and fail to receive the conditional promised Holy Spirit.
They would not be called a child of God if they did not have the Holy Spirit in them. Did not Paul addressed the falling away from the faith that will happen in droves in the latter days before Christ comes per 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 and that this iniquity was even happening in Paul's days per 2 Thessalonians 2:7? Paul goes on that these believers that believe the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation is why God permit the strong delusion to occur in 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 where it is testified that they will be damned but as that vessel unto dishonor as still in His House. Paul goes on to rebuke that lie by reminding the believers of the tradition taught of us of when we had received the sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15.

Are you still reading this and checking the scriptures also? Okay. Paul continues on in the next chapter proving that those that go astray and damned to be that vessel unto dishonor in His House ( unless they repent before the Bridegroom comes ) that we are to withdraw from them per 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 but not to treat them as the enemy, but to admonish them as brothers because they are still our brothers per 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15.

So salvation cannot be lost but how will we be received by Him is the question... as vessels unto honor or later on as vessels unto dishonor?
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
adam is the one who betrayed God.
AV 1Ti 2:13-14 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Agreed, But it makes one wonder, how much later(Timing gap between what GOD told Adam, not in Eve's hearing.) Eve was made from Adam's rib ???

But the take away is, anyone believing a lie, as truth, is "being deceived was in the transgression" is just as guilty as the liar.

There a lot of unrepentant sinners believing some false information as truth. The consequences to Adam and Eve, the lost of eternal life to the first death.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

e v e

Well-known member
AV 1Ti 2:13-14 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Agreed, But it makes one wonder, how much later(Timing gap between what GOD told Adam, not in Eve's hearing.) Eve was made from Adam's rib ???

But the take away is, anyone believing a lie, as truth, is "being deceived was in the transgression" is just as guilty as the liar.

There a lot of unrepentant sinners believing some false information as truth. The consequences to Adam and Eve, the lost of eternal life to the first death.

Yours in Christ, Michael
eve being taken out of adam was not by Him. that is a huge mistranslation and deception by scribes and esaus.

but, once she was taken out of him (a crime and not by God!), in that 'second' version written down of creation...
she was left alone and unprotected by adam... with satan. adam was told not to eat. And, as male, protecting his core of love, eve,
it was his job as as a son of God to protect her. Adam betrayed God.

eve is perfectly innocent. even right now. Adam as male, is responsible for her and betrayed of God.
and soon will come before God and die to his sin, in the other world where he 'reigns' with the satanic ones as prince of the air.
 
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e v e

Well-known member
yes, i know that modern christianity accepts (sometimes when it suits) that there are no corruptions in the written texts, which is not true.
Especially kjv is a sorcerous text.

scripture only began to be written down because the OT fathers did not listen to Him and got Cursed.
And then scripture began to be written and once it was being written, became vulnerable to corruption.

modern christianity much of it is still under the same curse and does not Hear Him.
 

e v e

Well-known member
and possible that she was taken out of adam as he was not protecting her... so the two things being related as far as the fall....
so many lines are corrupt and even the order described could be off.

it was adam's job to protect eve.
 
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