Daniel 9

Yodas_Prodigy

Well-known member
How do you understand this prophesy?


Therefore, consider the message and understand the vision:

24 “Seventy weeks[bc] have been determined
concerning your people and your holy city
to put an end to[bd] rebellion,
to bring sin[be] to completion,[bf]
to atone for iniquity,
to bring in perpetual[bg] righteousness,
to seal up[bh] the prophetic vision,[bi]
and to anoint a Most Holy Place.[bj]
25 So know and understand:
From the issuing of the command[bk] to restore and rebuild
Jerusalem until an anointed one, a prince arrives,[bl]
there will be a period of seven weeks[bm] and sixty-two weeks.
It will again be built,[bn] with plaza and moat,
but in distressful times.
26 Now after the sixty-two weeks,
an anointed one will be cut off and have nothing.[bo]
As for the city and the sanctuary,
the people of the coming prince will destroy[bp] them.
But his end will come speedily[bq] like a flood.[br]
Until the end of the war that has been decreed
there will be destruction.
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one week.[bs]
But in the middle of that week
he will bring sacrifices and offerings to a halt.
On the wing[bt] of abominations will come[bu] one who destroys,
until the decreed end is poured out on the one who destroys.”
 

docphin5

Well-known member
How do you understand this prophesy?


Therefore, consider the message and understand the vision:

24 “Seventy weeks[bc] have been determined
concerning your people and your holy city
to put an end to[bd] rebellion,
to bring sin[be] to completion,[bf]
to atone for iniquity,
to bring in perpetual[bg] righteousness,
to seal up[bh] the prophetic vision,[bi]
and to anoint a Most Holy Place.[bj]
25 So know and understand:
From the issuing of the command[bk] to restore and rebuild
Jerusalem until an anointed one, a prince arrives,[bl]
there will be a period of seven weeks[bm] and sixty-two weeks.
It will again be built,[bn] with plaza and moat,
but in distressful times.
26 Now after the sixty-two weeks,
an anointed one will be cut off and have nothing.[bo]
As for the city and the sanctuary,
the people of the coming prince will destroy[bp] them.
But his end will come speedily[bq] like a flood.[br]
Until the end of the war that has been decreed
there will be destruction.
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one week.[bs]
But in the middle of that week
he will bring sacrifices and offerings to a halt.
On the wing[bt] of abominations will come[bu] one who destroys,
until the decreed end is poured out on the one who destroys.”
Per the Qumran community the prophesy involves the leader of their community who was martyred around 63 - 40 B.C., namely, the Teacher of Righteousness (TOR).
The following is a copy of what I posted elsewhere. Definitely something not commonly known but fits with historical evidence.

There are many opinions on who the "anointed one" is that was "cut off" but none, that I am aware of, associates the TOR with this person, which makes this post all the more important, if only to provide an alternative explanation based on evidence and reason.

Whether you believe in prophesy or not should be set aside because the point here is to demonstrate how the Essene's interpreted the "prophesy" fulfilled in the first century B.C.

Rough sketch for those who know the basic historical and Biblical context (Daniel 9)

586 B.C.: Babylon conquers Judah's king

538 B.C.: Cyrus of Persia assumes control of the Babylonian Empire

539 B.C.: Cyrus issues decree "word" allowing freedom of religion in all conquered lands. (see Cyrus-Cylinder) (1)

(539 - 483 years (sixty-nine weeks)) = 56 BC.

56 B.C.: Sixty-nine weeks of years (483 years) AFTER "word" went forth "to restore and build Jerusalem" (Daniel 9:25) TO "an anointed one shall be cut off" (vs. 26).

Per Wise, the TOR was likely killed during the reign of John Hyrcanus II, king and high-priest of Palestine, from 63-40 B.C. (2), an interval of time which includes the predicted date of the anointed one's death, according to Daniel's prophesy.

Per the Essenes the "Wicked Priest" (aka Hyrcanus II) destroyed the Teacher of Righteousness on the Day of Atonement. (3)

Per the Essenes the "anointed one" who is "cut off" appears to be their Teacher of Righteousness (4).

In summary, the TOR might have been considered by the Essenes in the first century B.C. as the "anointed one" predicted to come by Daniel who was "cut off" by John Hyrcanus II, aka, "the Wicked Priest". The history fits the timeline in Daniel 9. I personally don’t put too much weight on the Daniel 9 prophecy until it can be proven to have been written before 100 B.C. Otherwise, there is the possibility it was written by the Essenes (under Daniel’s name) about their own leader around the time of his death.

References

1) "The Cylinder's text has traditionally been seen by biblical scholars as corroborative evidence of Cyrus' policy of the repatriation of the Jewish People following their Babylonian captivity, (an act that the Book of Ezra attributes to Cyrus), as the text refers to the restoration of cult sanctuaries and repatriation of deported peoples." (Wikipedia, Nov. 26, 2021)


2) "When Hyrcanus II became king, he renewed his efforts to destroy the Teacher and his group." (A new Translation, the Dead Sea Scrolls, Wise, pg 32).


3) "the Wicked Priest (aka Hyrcanus II) pursued the Teacher of Righteousness to destroy him in the heat of his anger at his place of exile (Qumran?). At the time set aside for the repose of the Day of Atonement he appeared to them to destroy them..." (ibid, pg 87)


4) "And the messenger is the Anointed of the Spirit of whom Daniel spoke, ["After the sixty-two weeks, an Anointed One shall be cut off" (Dan 9:26). The "messenger who brings ] GOOD NEWS, who announces salvation"] is the one of whom it is written, ["to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor, the day of vengeance of our God;] to comfo[rt all who mourn (Isaiah 62:2). This scriptures interpretation:] he is to instruct them about all the periods of history to eter[nity] (Book of Jubilees?)..." (ibid, 592,593)
 
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docphin5

Well-known member
How do you understand this prophesy?


Therefore, consider the message and understand the vision:

24 “Seventy weeks[bc] have been determined
concerning your people and your holy city
to put an end to[bd] rebellion,
to bring sin[be] to completion,[bf]
to atone for iniquity,
to bring in perpetual[bg] righteousness,
to seal up[bh] the prophetic vision,[bi]
and to anoint a Most Holy Place.[bj]
25 So know and understand:
From the issuing of the command[bk] to restore and rebuild
Jerusalem until an anointed one, a prince arrives,[bl]
there will be a period of seven weeks[bm] and sixty-two weeks.
It will again be built,[bn] with plaza and moat,
but in distressful times.
26 Now after the sixty-two weeks,
an anointed one will be cut off and have nothing.[bo]
As for the city and the sanctuary,
the people of the coming prince will destroy[bp] them.
But his end will come speedily[bq] like a flood.[br]
Until the end of the war that has been decreed
there will be destruction.

27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one week.[bs]
But in the middle of that week
he will bring sacrifices and offerings to a halt.
On the wing[bt] of abominations will come[bu] one who destroys,
until the decreed end is poured out on the one who destroys.”
verse 27 could be a reference to the anointed TOR bringing an end to animal sacrifices, especially given the Essenes did not sacrifice animals in the Temple.

I suspect the covenant he confirms is the “New Covenant“ established by the Holy Spirit (anointing the TOR) who creates seven days for its completion (Gen. 1). On the fifth day, “in the middle of that week”, the anointed TOR ascended to be at the right hand of the Most High God. He would be the one in the middle who ascends to the throne of “the El“ per the Book of Enoch.

A lot of this plays out in the Dead Sea Scrolls. If he is in fact who I suspect he his, that is, one of the seven spirits of God, then we are in a very real spiritual time of correction.
 
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docphin5

Well-known member
Personally, I could care less what Rabbinic Judaism reckons--these are the same people who killed the Teacher of Righteousness and rejected Paul the apostle and were leading nation Israel when it was destroyed. Their reputation follows them.

But more importantly the Book of Daniel was considered inspired by the Essenes, a Jewish sect in the first century B.C. and likely high priests during the Maccabean period. Whether they wrote it or not I do not know but possible. Nevertheless, the Book of Daniel is included in the Hebrew Bible, so..., inspired?, authoritative?, instructional?, --apparently, they think it holds something of value otherwise they would not have included it in their scriptures.
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
these are the same people who killed the Teacher of Righteousness and rejected Paul the apostle and were leading nation Israel when it was destroyed. Their reputation follows them.
mmmm, some might negatively feel this way - I don't really
these are complex issues from a Church perspective, I mean

But more importantly the Book of Daniel was considered inspired, etc.
I believe that Daniel was a prophet
 
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docphin5

Well-known member
mmmm, some might negatively feel this way - I don't really
these are complex issues from a Church perspective, I mean
Jesus didn't have much good to say about their understanding of scripture and presumably they have not changed since then.

"“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves. (Matt. 23)

I believe that Daniel was a prophet
Scholars seem to think it was written in the second century B.C. (versus being written in the sixth century by Daniel) so that kind of raises a big question mark.
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
Jesus didn't have much good to say..Pharisees, etc.
I'm not disagreeing really (and He probably agreed with them on certain things as well)
I try to keep my argument about that stuff over in the Messianic section, when and if Pharisees might be boldly lurking around :sneaky:

I think the Qumran folks and their Theological descendants were/would be fully into the Daniel prophetic timeline scenario
more so than the other Factions and theirs
 
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docphin5

Well-known member
I'm not disagreeing really (and He probably agreed with them on certain things as well)
I try to keep my argument about that stuff over in the Messianic section, when and if Pharisees might be boldly lurking around :sneaky:
I guess I should clarify that in no way am I implying that the Rabbinical Jews today are responsible for what happened 2,000 years ago. My point was that their understanding of scripture today has not changed since then so I do not expect anything from them today that would be helpful in understanding what their scriptures mean, in this case, the meaning of Daniel 9.
I think the Qumran folks and their Theological descendants were/would be fully into the Daniel prophetic timeline scenario
more so than the other Factions and theirs
(y)
 

Yodas_Prodigy

Well-known member
It seems our Jewish friends are ignoring this passage. It does give a timeline regarding the coming of Messiah and the end of the Jewish age in YHWH's plans... And it all seems to line up with Jerusalem being restored, the pinnacle and end of Jewish sin, Christ being Messiah, Christ getting cut off, the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple, and an end to the Jewish age...
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
I was previously asked to reference this -

"He will confirm a covenant with many for one week.
But in the middle of that week
he will bring sacrifices and offerings to a halt.
On the wing of abominations will come one who destroys,
until the decreed end is poured out on the one who destroys.”


“Behold, I lay in Zion a stone for a foundation,
A tried stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation;
Whoever believes will not act hastily.
Also I will make justice the measuring line,
And righteousness the plummet;
The hail will sweep away the refuge of lies,
And the waters will overflow the hiding place.
Your covenant with death will be annulled,
And your agreement with Sheol will not stand;"
Isaiah 28
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
How do you understand this prophesy?


Therefore, consider the message and understand the vision:

24 “Seventy weeks[bc] have been determined
concerning your people and your holy city
to put an end to[bd] rebellion,
to bring sin[be] to completion,[bf]
to atone for iniquity,
to bring in perpetual[bg] righteousness,
to seal up[bh] the prophetic vision,[bi]
and to anoint a Most Holy Place.[bj]
25 So know and understand:
From the issuing of the command[bk] to restore and rebuild
Jerusalem until an anointed one, a prince arrives,[bl]
there will be a period of seven weeks[bm] and sixty-two weeks.
It will again be built,[bn] with plaza and moat,
but in distressful times.
26 Now after the sixty-two weeks,
an anointed one will be cut off and have nothing.[bo]
As for the city and the sanctuary,
the people of the coming prince will destroy[bp] them.
But his end will come speedily[bq] like a flood.[br]
Until the end of the war that has been decreed
there will be destruction.
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one week.[bs]
But in the middle of that week
he will bring sacrifices and offerings to a halt.
On the wing[bt] of abominations will come[bu] one who destroys,
until the decreed end is poured out on the one who destroys.”
Why the reference to the seventy weeks? Do you know?
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
It seems our Jewish friends are ignoring this passage.
Actually, i had no idea you had posted this. It's not like I haven't discussed this passage before, Padawan.

It does give a timeline regarding the coming of Messiah and the end of the Jewish age in YHWH's plans... And it all seems to line up with Jerusalem being restored, the pinnacle and end of Jewish sin, Christ being Messiah, Christ getting cut off, the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple, and an end to the Jewish age...
Has there been an end to sin?
 

docphin5

Well-known member
I was previously asked to reference this -

"He will confirm a covenant with many for one week.
But in the middle of that week
he will bring sacrifices and offerings to a halt.
On the wing of abominations will come one who destroys,
until the decreed end is poured out on the one who destroys.”


“Behold, I lay in Zion a stone for a foundation,
A tried stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation;
Whoever believes will not act hastily.
Also I will make justice the measuring line,
And righteousness the plummet;
The hail will sweep away the refuge of lies,
And the waters will overflow the hiding place.
Your covenant with death will be annulled,
And your agreement with Sheol will not stand;"
Isaiah 28
There are two covenants: Per Paul, the Mosaic Covenant was the covenant of death. Therefore, the New Covenant would be the covenant of life by the Spirit.

"Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory. (2 cor. 3:7)
 
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