Daniel 9


Well-known member
"I know that you didn't, nor did I imply that you did."
Then you are making a straw man argument.
I don't agree that the fact that you weren't making one argument means that my argument about your actual argument is a straw man.

It is neat how much you know about the DSS with connection to Daniel 9 and how you really get into it.
It would be also nice if we (the public) had a better, more certain idea of who compiled the DSS. It would also be nice to have more of how the DSS treated Daniel 9, because the Anointed One fragment we've discussed is missing text, and although there is another fragment with verses from Daniel 9, they don't go to the 70 weeks portion.

Alternately, suppose that we did find the missing DSS verses for Daniel 9:25-27. They might easily match the Masoretic text that we currently have but without the punctuation (eg. Atnah in verse 25 between 7 and 62), since the Masoretes were the ones known to have added punctuation. Further, the LXX (Theodotion) seems like a generally good Greek rendering of the Hebrew text. Thus finding the DSS on that missing set of verses might not clear up the issue. Instead, the "Anointed One" fragment that we discussed earlier would be likely more helpful.


Well-known member
You are saying that the nation Israel having a spiritual awakening combined with revealing the TOR as being Yeshua would be a confluence of heavenly and earthly events.
OK, that could make sense, but a couple things need to be qualified:
Yes, yes, now we are making music again from the same sheet of music.

1. This combination does not entail a location in the land. In other words, just for the nation Israel to have a spiritual awakening and get a revelation of the TOR does not equate to a requirement that the nation first be located in the geographical territory of Zion. Instead, Orthodox Judaism and orthodox Christianity teach that the Messiah must first be the one to bring a return to the Land.
2. The founding of the SOI was not the spiritual awakening that you are talking about. At best, within your paradigm, the founding the SOI and the discovery of the DSS could be connected for the SOI to recognize the TOR in the DSS. That makes sense at some logical level, but it doesn't really jive very well with issues that I raised before, like whether the actual finding of the DSS actually coincides with the founding of the SOI.
It is a bit difficult to explain but I was thinking of the confluence of two rivers overlapping, one being heavenly and the other being material or earthly. The former being the ideal or perfect and the latter being an imperfect copy. In this case, if nation Israel were to recognize the TOR as the anointed one, then they would be crossing the Jordan and entering the promised land on a spiritual level, that is, the perfect, BUT on a material level, they would have freed themselves from Gentile domination within the same time-frame (a generation perhaps?). Both overlap, -the confluence of the rivers, in that, just as true Israel leaves the power of the material world, so does nation Israel leave the power of the Gentiles. Of course, the latter is a temporary, imperfect fulfillment (because it is a copy of the perfect), whereas, the former is eternal and forever. It is the scripture holding a double meaning and fulfilled concurrently which happens on rare occassions. This may have been what the TOR had in mind when he said what he did. Remember, he gave us the REVEALED LAW, what the Law tells us about the past, present, and future and the “signs” to mark the passing of time.
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