Daniel 9

Ezra attributes the decree to Cyrus.

”that the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom and also put it in writing:…” (Ezra 1:1)

“But Zerubbabel, Jeshua, and the rest of the heads of fathers' houses in Israel said to them, “You have nothing to do with us in building a house to our God; but we alone will build to the LORD, the God of Israel, as King Cyrus the king of Persia has commanded us.””(Ezra 4:3)

”However, in the first year of Cyrus king of Babylon, Cyrus the king made a decree that this house of God should be rebuilt.” (Ezra 5:13)

Subsequent Persian kings are only following through what Cyrus decreed. IOW, Cyrus established the rule that his subsequent governments supported. Cyrus initiated the freedom of religion in his kingdom and set a precedent that others would follow, to include Alexander the Great.
Cyrus is called the anointed one, in Isaiah 45. I agree with you here.
 
yes, there would be Cyrus decree from that time, which mention the City and the Temple
differing views I guess make issue of "the wall" being mentioned in the prophecy, and doing so relate that to the later decree
“The wall” versus the decree by Cyrus that repatriated Jews to their homeland and their Temple. Appears to be a weaker position to put a “wall“ over everything else, especially given the Dead Sea Scrolls counting the weeks from Cyrus to the TOR as the anointed one. More so knowing he founded “the Way” which was later adopted by the Western civilization. Not a bad resume for an anointed one!
 
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"Daniel has elucidated to us the knowledge of the end times.
However, since they are secret, the wise (Rabbis) have barred the
calculation of the days of Messiah's coming so that the
untutored populace will not be led astray when they see that
the end times have already come but there is no sign of Messiah."
Maimonides Igeret Teiman ch. 3
Actually the copy I have from Rabbi Finkel, Letter to Yemen, page 42 says:

Daniel declared the date of the final redemption a secret. Our sages have discouraged the calculation of the time of the coming of Mashiach. They feared the masses may be confused and led astray when the predicted time arrives and Mashiach does not come.
 
Actually the copy I have from Rabbi Finkel, Letter to Yemen, page 42 says:

Daniel declared the date of the final redemption a secret. Our sages have discouraged the calculation of the time of the coming of Mashiach. They feared the masses may be confused and led astray when the predicted time arrives and Mashiach does not come.
IOW, they did not recognize him when he came, as predicted by the Book of Daniel. So where do you guys go from here?
 
IOW, they did not recognize him when he came, as predicted by the Book of Daniel. So where do you guys go from here?
We basically reiterate to you that Jesus cannot be the messiah, since he didn't fulfill all the messianic prophecies.
 
We basically reiterate to you that Jesus cannot be the messiah, since he didn't fulfill all the messianic prophecies.
I was not talking about the Gospel Jesus. The Daniel 9 prediction lines up exactly with the Teacher of Righteousness in the first century B.C.

You may be waiting in vain if your Messianic expectations are wrong. He may be doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing and you never recognize it because your expectations are sensual versus spiritual.
 
IOW, they did not recognize him when he came, as predicted by the Book of Daniel. So where do you guys go from here?
Actually, that's not what the Rambam was saying. His concern was people making up their own assumptions and calculations and getting frustrated when nothing happens. If you've read Rambam, he doesn't believe the Nazarene accomplished anything. And the world shows it.
 
I was not talking about the Gospel Jesus. The Daniel 9 prediction lines up exactly with the Teacher of Righteousness in the first century B.C.
And who was the TOR? What proof do you have?

You may be waiting in vain if your Messianic expectations are wrong. He may be doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing and you never recognize it because your expectations are sensual versus spiritual.
The commandments aren't spiritualized away. That's what the apostate Paul taught.
 
Actually, that's not what the Rambam was saying. His concern was people making up their own assumptions and calculations and getting frustrated when nothing happens.
If the glove fits the Teacher of Righteousness, then it FITS! To ignore prophesy (if it is in fact a true prophesy (1)) because it points to someone the Pharisees/Rabbinical Jews killed or rejected is foolish, especially given that this poor, solitary human, founded a faith that the whole Western civilization has adopted for itself. Talk about not seeing the forest through the trees, you guys are clueless.
If you've read Rambam, he doesn't believe the Nazarene accomplished anything. And the world shows it.
Of course he says that, otherwise he would have to explain to people like you why Daniel's prophecy points directly at the Teacher of Righteousness who the Pharisees and subsequent Rabbinical jews rejected or killed.

1) I am not convinced that Daniel 9 is a true prophesy in the sense that we are taking it, that is, written by Daniel in the 6th century about a future event. It is more likely a pseudoepigraph literature written by members of the Essene/Sadducee community about their leader, namely, the Teacher of righteousness. But if everyone takes it as a true prophesy then it is pointing with a red neon sign and flashing lights ? ? at the Teacher of Righteousness. Somebody wanted everyone to know that the leader of the Qumran community was a true prophet of the Most High God.
 
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And who was the TOR? What proof do you have?
I am not your history teacher. Go look it up yourself or remain ignorant.
The commandments aren't spiritualized away. That's what the apostate Paul taught.
The commands are followed by the mind led BY the inner Spirit (aka a moral consciousness) versus followed by the letter written on stone in the Mosaic Law. This may be too difficult of a concept for you to grasp but it is in your scripture.

“Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, NOT like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Who is "me" in "they shall all know ME", if not a moral consciousness directing their paths, UNLIKE you, who wants to kill gays if only to fulfill the OLD law written on stone. Are any light bulbs going on yet? Do you get this simple but true prophesy from your own scriptures? Christians walk by the inner Spirit of Christ, not according to the obsolete Mosaic covenant.
 
I am not your history teacher. Go look it up yourself or remain ignorant.
Ok. But thoughts on the TOR are all over the map, so I think you're ignorant about that.

The commands are followed by the mind led BY the inner Spirit (aka a moral consciousness) versus followed by the letter written on stone in the Mosaic Law. This may be too difficult of a concept for you to grasp but it is in your scripture.
Rotfl... the commandments are still written and not trivialized. Man didn't figure the moral law on his own.

“Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, NOT like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more
So, the focus is still Israel.

Who is "me" in "they shall all know ME", if not a moral consciousness directing their paths, UNLIKE you, who wants to kill gays if only to fulfill the OLD law written on stone.
The moral conscious is the law written on the hearts and minds. Not that man has figured out the law on their own.

Sorry to hear about your gay issues.

Are any light bulbs going on yet? Do you get this simple but true prophesy from your own scriptures? Christians walk by the inner Spirit of Christ, not according to the obsolete Mosaic covenant.
Actually, the spirit involves the law.
 
Ok. But thoughts on the TOR are all over the map, so I think you're ignorant about that.


Rotfl... the commandments are still written and not trivialized. Man didn't figure the moral law on his own.
Then how did all the patriarchs please God before the Mosaic Law was given?

That, BTW, is one of the points made by Paul in his systematic treatise for the Christian faith, that is, a moral consciousness is found in everyone going back to the most ancient history of humans on the planet. Which is why he could proclaim,

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise." (Gal 3:28).

IOW, there is no distinction between humans before the Most High God, as his spirit is able to dwell within anyone, symbolized by the patriarchs in YOUR scriptures BEFORE the Mosaic Law was given.
So, the focus is still Israel.
Not all descended from Abraham are Israel, for it is by the will of God that the elect are chosen. (Paul)

The moral conscious is the law written on the hearts and minds. Not that man has figured out the law on their own.
see above
Sorry to hear about your gay issues.
Don't worry about me. You have enough of your own problems to deal with.
Actually, the spirit involves the law.
Not according to Jeremiah.
 
I was not talking about the Gospel Jesus. The Daniel 9 prediction lines up exactly with the Teacher of Righteousness in the first century B.C.

You may be waiting in vain if your Messianic expectations are wrong. He may be doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing and you never recognize it because your expectations are sensual versus spiritual.
Oh come on. The only reason you are interested in the weeks of Daniel is that you can force squeeze the timeline to be around the time of Jesus crucifixion.

And please, don't confuse the issue by bringing up Essene nonsense. NO ONE in these forums is an Essene.
 
Then how did all the patriarchs please God before the Mosaic Law was given?
They were given the commandments for circumcision, were told to leave their home, etc., and they obeyed.

That, BTW, is one of the points made by Paul in his systematic treatise for the Christian faith, that is, a moral consciousness is found in everyone going back to the most ancient history of humans on the planet. Which is why he could proclaim,

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise." (Gal 3:28).
No, Paul was abrogating everything which is what apostates do.

IOW, there is no distinction between humans before the Most High God, as his spirit is able to dwell within anyone, symbolized by the patriarchs in YOUR scriptures BEFORE the Mosaic Law was given.
Actually, God made a distinction with Noah, Abraham, etc., and gave them laws to follow.

Not all descended from Abraham are Israel, for it is by the will of God that the elect are chosen. (Paul)
Well, some Jews do elect to be cut-off. Those grafted follow Isaiah 56:1-8.

Don't worry about me. You have enough of your own problems to deal with.
I don't have any.

Not according to Jeremiah.
But you can check the rest of Tanakh. The prophets all agree.
 
Oh come on. The only reason you are interested in the weeks of Daniel is that you can force squeeze the timeline to be around the time of Jesus crucifixion.

And please, don't confuse the issue by bringing up Essene nonsense. NO ONE in these forums is an Essene.
The Essenes were not even "Essenes." They never called themselves by that name which was given to them by those who came later. The historical fact is that the leader of the Qumran community, namely, the Teacher of Righteousness, founded "The Way", established the Lord's supper, the Lord's baptism, and the form of Christianity that Western civilization would later adopt. You can remain ignorant of the historical facts if you want to but truth will ultimately be revealed. Everyone who chooses error reaps the reward they deserve.
 
The Essenes were not even "Essenes." They never called themselves by that name which was given to them by those who came later. The historical fact is that the leader of the Qumran community, namely, the Teacher of Righteousness, founded "The Way", established the Lord's supper, the Lord's baptism, and the form of Christianity that Western civilization would later adopt. You can remain ignorant of the historical facts if you want to but truth will ultimately be revealed. Everyone who chooses error reaps the reward they deserve.
So, in other words, "the wrong way" was founded. Got it!
 
The Essenes were not even "Essenes." They never called themselves by that name which was given to them by those who came later. The historical fact is that the leader of the Qumran community, namely, the Teacher of Righteousness, founded "The Way", established the Lord's supper, the Lord's baptism, and the form of Christianity that Western civilization would later adopt. You can remain ignorant of the historical facts if you want to but truth will ultimately be revealed. Everyone who chooses error reaps the reward they deserve.
This is just one historical inaccuracy after another. I don't even know where to begin.

"Like the Pharisees, the Essenes meticulously observed the Law of Moses, the sabbath, and ritual purity. They also professed belief in immortality and divine punishment for sin. But, unlike the Pharisees, the Essenes denied the resurrection of the body and refused to immerse themselves in public life."
 
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This is just one historical inaccuracy after another. I don't even know where to begin.

"Like the Pharisees, the Essenes meticulously observed the Law of Moses, the sabbath, and ritual purity. They also professed belief in immortality and divine punishment for sin. But, unlike the Pharisees, the Essenes denied the resurrection of the body and refused to immerse themselves in public life."
Your quote is not accurate because right off the bat, the Essenes did not sacrifice animals in the Temple. But more importantly, they allegorized the scriptures UNLIKE the Pharisees who literalized them. It is how Paul could say in one breath, "The Law is Holy", and in the other breath, "the Law is obsolete" because, just like the Essenes, Paul perceived its allegorical meaning as holy, and its letter as death. Pharisees followed the letter and the Essenes/Christians followed the Spirit of the Law. Which is why they could abrogate animal sacrifice, yet still promote the Law for its symbolic value.

The two cardinal rules of the Essenes were Sabbath observance and Circumcision which they claimed was practiced by the angels in heaven as an eternal ordinance. Taken literally (as the Pharisees would do) that is absurd (spirits do not have a penis to circumcise) but figuratively it makes sense for these eternal ordinances are two sides of the same coin from a heavenly perspective. It is seven days until the Holy Spirit has formed spiritual Israel or Jacob who is intimately connected to the Sabbath when the the heavenly host are gathered in, presumably to live in heaven. On the flip side, if the flesh is not removed on the eighth day then the male is "cut-off" from his God. Two sides of the same coin supporting an eternal truth practiced by the angels in heaven and SYMBOLIZED by the Mosaic Law. The circumcised flesh is also associated with the carnal nature (ie inordinate desire, passions, impulses, etc.) which is likely the true circumcision--the circumcision practiced by angels in heaven (and on earth).
 
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