Dead, Slave, Evil, Ungodly, Loving Darkness etc.........

Theo1689

Well-known member
So, what do you think about the Perseverance of the Saints then? Before he died, Sproul agreed the Perseverance of the Saints is a little Synergistic...

"Perseverance of the Saints" can be understood synergistically, or monergistically.

It is synergistic if it is understood as synonymous with, "we must endure to the end".

It is monergistic if it is understood as I like to think of it, "preservation of the saints".

God preserves us.
God holds us in His hand, and doesn't let go (John 6:28-29).
God ensures that we persevere.

We don't persevere based on our own efforts, but because of God's promise.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
"Perseverance of the Saints" can be understood synergistically, or monergistically.

It is synergistic if it is understood as synonymous with, "we must endure to the end".

It is monergistic if it is understood as I like to think of it, "preservation of the saints".

God preserves us.
God holds us in His hand, and doesn't let go (John 6:28-29).
God ensures that we persevere.

We don't persevere based on our own efforts, but because of God's promise.
Well said, it's all of Grace. I think it's another example of Compatibalism...
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nope. God frees the will that has been bound by Satan. Once the will is freed, they exercise the God-given faith given unto them and are saved. God does not believe for us. He frees our will so we can believe in Him.
Sorry, if you are telling me that a person gets saved by the exercising of faith, thats salvation by works, by what a man does. Even if you say its God given Faith, you still saying you are saved by exercising a gift you have.

The word exercise:

bodily or mental exertion,

to put (faculties, rights, etc.) into action, practice, or use:
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
So, what do you think about the Perseverance of the Saints then? Before he died, Sproul agreed the Perseverance of the Saints is a little Synergistic...
Those who God preserves will persevere, its like what Paul said Phil 2 12 13

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

And remember perseverance applies only to the born again, who can never become unborn again
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
Sorry, if you are telling me that a person gets saved by the exercising of faith, thats salvation by works, by what a man does. Even if you say its God given Faith, you still saying you are saved by exercising a gift you have.

The word exercise:

bodily or mental exertion,

to put (faculties, rights, etc.) into action, practice, or use:
Nope. This all happens at the same time.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
Sorry, if you are telling me that a person gets saved by the exercising of faith, thats salvation by works, by what a man does. Even if you say its God given Faith, you still saying you are saved by exercising a gift you have.

The word exercise:

bodily or mental exertion,

to put (faculties, rights, etc.) into action, practice, or use:
Exercising faith is the evidence of conversion, not the cause. God doesn’t believe for us.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Exercising faith is the evidence of conversion, not the cause. God doesn’t believe for us.
You teach and believe that a person is saved after they exercise a gift God gave them. Thats salvation by work, an exertion you do !

Also right, God doesnt believe for no one, its something the person does.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
You teach and believe that a person is saved after they exercise a gift God gave them. Thats salvation by work, an exertion you do !

Also right, God doesnt believe for no one, its something the person does.
No it’s not. I should have known better than taking you off ignore. Good by hyper.
 
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