Interesting. Never heard of this Pastor Chuck.
As you said it needs to be else where and I do not know enough about Orthodox beliefs to comment. But I would disagree with the kissing of images etc. The command to Moses does not mean and never did to the Jewish people that they could do it elsewhere other than the Temple. Their synagogues do not have images or statues. It is not the same as a family picture. No Jewish person ever went up and kissed the Cherubim in the Temple, so your argument is flawed.
I understand. Kissing is not worship though. When I was in Washington DC, my wife, daughter and I visited the Vietnam Memorial, there were grown men, about my dads age, weeping against the wall, their tears touching the name of their fallen comrades. A woman, I'm assuming a wife of one of the fallen, hands against the wall, forehead and lips pressed against the name of her husband. Next stop was Arlington Nation Cemetery. The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, their bones guarded by their fellow soldiers. I'm not sure if you have ever been, but it is quite a sight. These guys take this very seriously, and the changing of the guard is remarkable. Actually, I think it is all very Christian.
It's not images that are bad, it's worshiping them. Moses was told to put images of cherubim on the Ark and King Solomon put two giant images of cherubim in the Temple. These images of course were not worshiped. Same in an Orthodox Church. The icons are not worshiped, they are a reminder of those who came before us or they are telling us about a Scriptural event, such as Christ's baptism or Nativity.
Do we know this for a fact? Jews do have their sacred places. The most known would be the Western Wall were they pray, heads pressed against the Wall as they stuff written prayers into the cracks.
It doesn't teach the opposite either. Why are "the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders" then "each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints;"? Why are these prayers not going straight to God? Why is He not collecting the "bowls" of incense Himself? Maybe it's because they are intercessors? That's what I believe. Not because I came to my own conclusion, but because this is what the Church teaches and has taught from the beginning.
NO scripture is extremely clear on not bowing before statutes or images. There is no getting around it. No matter how much you compare it with secular practices.I understand. Kissing is not worship though. When I was in Washington DC, my wife, daughter and I visited the Vietnam Memorial, there were grown men, about my dads age, weeping against the wall, their tears touching the name of their fallen comrades. A woman, I'm assuming a wife of one of the fallen, hands against the wall, forehead and lips pressed against the name of her husband. Next stop was Arlington Nation Cemetery. The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, their bones guarded by their fellow soldiers. I'm not sure if you have ever been, but it is quite a sight. These guys take this very seriously, and the changing of the guard is remarkable. Actually, I think it is all very Christian.
No one in their right mind would call what I saw at the Vietnam Memorial or the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier worship. This is no different than Orthodox Christians venerating icons or the relics of saints.
I get it, this is foreign practice to many Christians in the West but it is an ancient practice. I think it is important that when an Orthodox Christian says they do not worship the saints or Mary, that others believe what they tell them especially since we a practicing Orthodox and know that we only worship God. I am by no means saying that you go around doing this, just making a general statement.
It's not images that are bad, it's worshiping them. Moses was told to put images of cherubim on the Ark and King Solomon put two giant images of cherubim in the Temple. These images of course were not worshiped. Same in an Orthodox Church. The icons are not worshiped, they are a reminder of those who came before us or they are telling us about a Scriptural event, such as Christ's baptism or Nativity.
Do we know this for a fact? Jews do have their sacred places. The most known would be the Western Wall were they pray, heads pressed against the Wall as they stuff written prayers into the cracks.
As a Christian, I don't see how my comparison to family photos and icons is flawed. My icon corner, which is where my wife, daughter and I say our morning and evening prayers, where I sit and read the Scriptures, is right next to where we keep our family photos. Both are reminders of dear ones.
Enjoying or discussion
The context is bowing down and serving them. The Israelites were surrounded by people who worshiped images.
Since prayer TO ANYBODY OR ANYTHING Is worship, the concept of a "Debate" about it is ridiculous.
No it is clear do not bow down. I am so tired of people trying to justify their institutions false teachings. The Jewish people understood what God meant.
Nope. Simply guesswork on your part.
I know, but not one example from the Bible where praying to anyone besides God is properly done.
Bow down and SERVE them. That is the context. Orthodox DO NOT worship icons. I am tired of non-Orthodox telling us what they think they know about us! If you want to learn about Orthodoxy, learn from Orthodox sources. I've go plenty of good ones to share.
As do Orthodox Christians
I actually don't have to prove anything here. I believe what the Church has taught for 2000 years. Here's my favorite question that I never get an answer too, using the Bible and the Bible alone, where does the Bible teach the Bible alone?
Just believe it despite what the Bible teaches otherwise.
Actually, no. What the Church teaches does not contradict the Bible, which I have shown. You may not agree with it as we all see the Scriptures through the eyes of a particular tradition. That's right, how we interpret Scripture is tradition.