You found the counter church, as your church was not founded by Jesus. Post 199.I found the Truth in the Church that Jesus founded, not in one of the many counterfeits.
You found the counter church, as your church was not founded by Jesus. Post 199.I found the Truth in the Church that Jesus founded, not in one of the many counterfeits.
Uh..Yeah cuz SHE IS THE MOTHER OF GOD. That is her POSITION IN CHRIST.It is okay as you are not in His church and therefore it is idolatry. No RC can back up their claims that it is okay. Mary never prayed to the dead, Jesus only ever said to pray to the father, the apostles never prayed to the dead. It is made up thing by RCC and goes against not communicating with the dead.
But God tells us we:You miss the point.
Sola Scriptura tells us ONLY what is the supreme authority in the Church. The Bible is the supreme authority.
Fine. Catholics can agree on that much.
What Sola Scriptura does NOT tell us is:
1) How does one interpret the Bible? That is--should one interpret the Bible using modern scientific literary analysis and exegesis? Linguistic analysis? Should one interpret the Bible using the methods of the ECF?
2) What happens when translators disagree on how to translate a word or words?
3) What happens when Christians cannot agree on the meaning of a passage?
4) What constitutes the Bible in the first place? What books are to be received as Scripture?
5) Are there other books that are inspired that could be discovered down the line and added?
6) Are translations of the Bible just as authoritative as the original manuscripts, or are only the manuscripts authoritative?
I could go on and on.
Oh that is ignoring the point I made and shows you cannot defend your false practice and belief. It doesn't matter if she is Jesus' mother, Jesus still prayed and therefore Mary would have prayed. The apostles prayed. Jesus and the apostles did not pray to the dead. The apostles did not pray to Mary after she died. You do not have a leg to stand on, communicating with the dead is a pagan practice.Uh..Yeah cuz SHE IS THE MOTHER OF GOD. That is her POSITION IN CHRIST.
If you were in the real church you would know this is idolatry. Oh that was simple to respond to.If you were in the Church you would know this is not idolatry.
No, that is YOU ignoring what YOU said. You said "Mary never prayed to the dead." She had no need to, considering WHO HER SON IS.Oh that is ignoring the point I made and shows you cannot defend your false practice and belief. It doesn't matter if she is Jesus' mother, Jesus still prayed and therefore Mary would have prayed. The apostles prayed. Jesus and the apostles did not pray to the dead. The apostles did not pray to Mary after she died. You do not have a leg to stand on, communicating with the dead is a pagan practice.
Whom did all believers pray to, in the Bible?No, that is YOU ignoring what YOU said. You said "Mary never prayed to the dead." She had no need to, considering WHO HER SON IS.
I am not ignoring what I posted. You are floundering like a fish that has been caught.No, that is YOU ignoring what YOU said. You said "Mary never prayed to the dead." She had no need to, considering WHO HER SON IS.
mary is NOT Jesus' boss, nor is she a goddess.No, that is YOU ignoring what YOU said. You said "Mary never prayed to the dead." She had no need to, considering WHO HER SON IS.
Hmm...the Church gathered together in constant prayer, unified, Mary with them and Peter, promoting apostolic succession (Acts 1:15-26) and speaking on behalf of the Church and the Faith (Acts 2: 14-41). "They devoted themselves (gasp! Idolatry!) to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer." Sure LOOKS like the Catholic Church!
Quote anyone who said that Mary was Jesus' boss or a goddess.mary is NOT Jesus' boss, nor is she a goddess.
"Devoted" in this context does not mean idolatrous attention. It just means they did it a lot. And of course the early church broke bread, fellowshipped with other Christians and prayed a lot. But that doesn't make it the Catholic Church. That is utter nonsense!Hmm...the Church gathered together in constant prayer, unified, Mary with them and Peter, promoting apostolic succession (Acts 1:15-26) and speaking on behalf of the Church and the Faith (Acts 2: 14-41). "They devoted themselves (gasp! Idolatry!) to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer." Sure LOOKS like the Catholic Church!
You are now obfuscating praying to the saints with praying to God. They are not the same. Prayer to the saints is intercessory prayer, asking them to pray for our intentions, since the prayers of the righteous availeth much. The saints are a "means"; God is the "end".I am not ignoring what I posted. You are floundering like a fish that has been caught.
No it is you who does not understand the fact, we all need to pray even Mary prayed, it does not matter who HER SON IS. Then why did Jesus pray, I mean considering WHO HE IS. The apostle prayed and they never prayed to Mary even after she died.
You are showing your lack of logic with that reply. Scripture records Mary praying, Jesus praying and the apostles praying and none of them prayed to the dead.
I'm Orthodox. Never heard of the guy.Pastor "Chuck"....LOL!
Devotion to Mary and the saints does not violate the sense of Scripture. That was my point.
Well, then, case closed right? What happened to "When the Scriptures are silent, I am silent. When the Scriptures speak, I speak?"
There are a lot of factors that go into determining the meaning of a passage. For Catholics, the biggest part of understanding the Scriptures is through Tradition.
That should make sense to anyone with half of brain.
The Gospel existed orally first, within the context of the Christian Community. It only makes sense, then, that the Scriptures continue to be understood within the context of the larger Christian community----not only in the here and now, but throughout history.
How do you determine which is the best one? Where does the Bible tell us how to determine the best possible translation?
Oh so you admit it? It may not have been Jerome, but due to one of the many unauthorized tamperings of his translation done by some in your church, over the centuries. My point, however, still stands.And---what? So Jerome made a mistake when he translated that passage. This is generally admitted in Catholic circles. I am not sure what you think you prove by pointing out this error. I mean what? Do you think our teachings on Mary stand or fall with that translation?
Oh, you don't? Let me enlighten you--The Vulgate got this wrong, too. Nowhere does the NT say we should "do penance" but REPENT. Two different meanings.Okay, here you point out something that once again, I am not sure what you think you prove by this.
Um, well, you see, YOU, sir, are the one who subscribes to Sola Scriptura. THAT is what it has to do with the price of tea in China.
So, you think the proper translation of biblical Greek in the NT into good, vernacular English by those highly trained in Biblical Greek, with Ph.Ds in the subject, are mere "whims" and "musings"?You try to bind my conscience to the whims of some Greek scholar somewhere--and yet cannot show where the Scriptures teach that the musings and whims of Greek scholars and their translations are authoritative.
Anything for mother church Bonnie. They deny the very black and white of scripture for the muddy waters of catholicism. They prefer the aramaic over the greek. They change definitions of words. They add uninspired apocryphal books to Gods canon. I can go on and on. Its what false religion does. They've shown time and again their disdain for scripture. Hopefully they'll see the light before they leave this world.And YOU, sir, think your church's adding to the word of God and even contradicting it with man-made dogmas is just fine and dandy--don't you?
So, you think the proper translation of biblical Greek in the NT into good, vernacular English by those highly trained in Biblical Greek, with Ph.Ds in the subject, are mere "whims" and "musings"?
But then this is what you must do, disparage real, Biblical scholar who are highly trained in Biblical Greek and Hermeneutics, in order to justify your church's often unbiblical interpretation of the NT--isn't it?
No I am not. I am asking for support for your praying to Mary and others but you are trying to twist the point and hide the fact that you have no support for your false practices.You are now obfuscating praying to the saints with praying to God. They are not the same. Prayer to the saints is intercessory prayer, asking them to pray for our intentions, since the prayers of the righteous availeth much. The saints are a "means"; God is the "end".
A New Day never claimed anyone wrote those things. He was just making a statement of fact.Quote anyone who said that Mary was Jesus' boss or a goddess.