I mean RCs show by the way they read things into our posts and misread our posts why they have problems with scriptures.A New Day never claimed anyone wrote those things. He was just making a statement of fact.
I mean RCs show by the way they read things into our posts and misread our posts why they have problems with scriptures.A New Day never claimed anyone wrote those things. He was just making a statement of fact.
Prayers are prayers. You pray to people dead in the Lord as one would pray to God, and for the same things: help, comfort, peace, and even salvation. I have put down several Marian prayers on here that ask for all of those things and nowhere in them was a plea to intercede for the pray-er.You are now obfuscating praying to the saints with praying to God. They are not the same. Prayer to the saints is intercessory prayer, asking them to pray for our intentions, since the prayers of the righteous availeth much. The saints are a "means"; God is the "end".
No, intention is everything. If your prayers have no intention, they are worthless words. In prayers to saints, there is no intention to worship them no matter how many times you claim otherwise, making your words FALSE.Prayers are prayers. You pray to people dead in the Lord as one would pray to God, and for the same things: help, comfort, peace, and even salvation. I have put down several Marian prayers on here that ask for all of those things and nowhere in them was a plea to intercede for the pray-er.
But those on earth who are saved are righteous in God's eyes by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus tells us to pray to our Father in heaven. Paul tells us to make our prayers known to God. Jesus said that "whatever you ask Me in My name, that I will do." That is prayer. Prayer is worship. Just because Catholics direct their prayers to Mary or Peter or some other saint dead in the Lord doesn't make it right.
No, intention is everything. If your prayers have no intention, they are worthless words. In prayers to saints, there is no intention to worship them no matter how many times you claim otherwise, making your words FALSE.
In prayers to saints, there is no intention to worship them
Prayer by definition IS to petition a deity. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, you know the rest. When you pray TO anything other than God you expect that thing to hear you and accomplish what you've asked. All of our prayers are to be directed to God. Not a shred of scripture to suggest otherwise.No, intention is everything. If your prayers have no intention, they are worthless words. In prayers to saints, there is no intention to worship them no matter how many times you claim otherwise, making your words FALSE.
What was her intent?Rendering prayer is offering latreuō (Luke 2:37).
Love God.What was her intent?
Not what you said in previous post.Love God.
Which proves there is more than one intent.Not what you said in previous post.
In the Catholic faith we have the Communion of Saints. Apparently you don't. They are that "great cloud of witnesses" that we read about in Scripture. If they are witnesses, then they know if we pray to them.Prayer by definition IS to petition a deity. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, you know the rest. When you pray TO anything other than God you expect that thing to hear you and accomplish what you've asked. All of our prayers are to be directed to God. Not a shred of scripture to suggest otherwise.
No, mamn, I do NOT think that. You continue to beg the question.And YOU, sir, think your church's adding to the word of God and even contradicting it with man-made dogmas are just fine and dandy--don't you?
At times, yes. The deeper question, though is---who says their translations should be considered definitive?So, you think the proper translation of biblical Greek in the NT into good, vernacular English by those highly trained in Biblical Greek, with Ph.Ds in the subject, are mere "whims" and "musings"?
No, I am asking why you think Greek scholars are any more qualified to teach us the Scriptures than a pope and bishops.But then this is what you must do, disparage real, Biblical scholars who are highly trained in Biblical Greek and Hermeneutics, in order to justify your church's often unbiblical interpretation of the NT--isn't it?
Problems arise when we consciously or unconsciously give commentaries authority which they cannot have because they are not inspired. Tools (concordnances, topical bibles, etc.) can be useful, but putting your trust in one man's (or even a committee's) opinions can be hazardous.I'm sure plenty of Catholics read their Bibles.
What is wrong, if I may ask, with reading ones Bible with, lets say a catechism, or Scriptural commentary? I'm not here to debate (I can't on this thread since I am Orthodox). Just wondering what your thoughts are.
Thanks
I see what your saying and I would agree with that.Problems arise when we consciously or unconsciously give commentaries authority which they cannot have because they are not inspired. Tools (concordnances, topical bibles, etc.) can be useful, but putting your trust in one man's (or even a committee's) opinions can be hazardous.
--Rich
Prayer is a form of worship, yes but it has other definitions:
- To humbly beg a person for their aid or their time.
- To ask earnestly for; to seek to obtain by supplication; to entreat for.
- To wish or hope strongly for a particular outcome.
- To implore or entreat a request.
From my perspective (Orthodox) we do not see "praying" to saints as worship because, well, Orthodox and Catholics don't worship the saints. That would be heresy.
Mary and Peter were not Roman Catholics. The Churches name was "The Way".Hmm...the Church gathered together in constant prayer, unified, Mary with them and Peter, promoting apostolic succession (Acts 1:15-26) and speaking on behalf of the Church and the Faith (Acts 2: 14-41). "They devoted themselves (gasp! Idolatry!) to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer." Sure LOOKS like the Catholic Church!
You are now obfuscating praying to the saints with praying to God. They are not the same. Prayer to the saints is intercessory prayer, asking them to pray for our intentions, since the prayers of the righteous availeth much. The saints are a "means"; God is the "end".
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, Christians dont pray to saints to get God to hear their prayer. We go to God only through Jesus. |
This is actually a good opportunity to test what is in the CCC if it aligns with Gods Word. If it doesn,t then we are to reject it.I'm sure plenty of Catholics read their Bibles.
What is wrong, if I may ask, with reading ones Bible with, lets say a catechism, or Scriptural commentary? I'm not here to debate (I can't on this thread since I am Orthodox). Just wondering what your thoughts are.
Thanks