Debate: Trent Horn vs Steve Christie (Marian dogmas)

balshan

Well-known member
show us your facts....
Why no RCs show us any facts at all when they post claims. But you follow blind guides and we are told to test the spirits. Your guides have bad fruit and don't expose sin for a start. Your leaders fail the testing of spirits and your institution fails every biblical tests. I don't know why you need those things restated.

Read scripture and find every scriptural test and open your eyes and apply them to your institution. It fails every test.
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
[
show us your facts....

Romans 1:
Because that, when they knew God,
they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful;
but became vain in their imaginations,
and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
..
God gave them over to a reprobate mind,
to do those things which are not convenient;

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God;
but in works they deny him,
being abominable, and disobedient,
and unto every good work reprobate.
 

Arch Stanton

Well-known member
Romans 1:
Because that, when they knew God,
they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful;
but became vain in their imaginations,
and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
..
God gave them over to a reprobate mind,
to do those things which are not convenient;

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God;
but in works they deny him,
being abominable, and disobedient,
and unto every good work reprobate.
and? one minute the Catholic Church is not mentioned in scripture and then you say these verses are about Catholics? :rolleyes:
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
I think that Christian fundamentalists deny any spiritual hierarchy but I know that many Protestant denominations do exalt our Fathers/Mothers in faith as Saints with a capital S. There are many Protestant churches bearing their names. So it isn't just Catholic to recognise exalted souls that lead us to Christ.
And I think that Roman Catholic participants of the RCC's daily/ weekly 'bread and wine' performance exalts the hierarchy of the Church of Roman Catholicism established here in the United States, because it contributes more Money with a capital M, to the hierarchy headquarters at Rome than all the other sap-sucking branches of the RCC put together worldwide - and although knowing that money is the root of all evil - it's still truly impressive and exhilarating to them.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
many Catholics do indeed worship Mary, even though official catholic dogma on her would be "veneration"
The Roman Catholic Church totally supports the veneration (aka: worship) of images. In Exodus 25:18 the Bible states that Moses was commanded by God to "make 2 cherubim of gold, make them of hammered work at the two ends of the mercy seat." Roman Catholic scholars often argue that this verse justifies and supports the RCC's veneration of sacred images. Is that your belief also?
 

balshan

Well-known member
The Roman Catholic Church totally supports the veneration (aka: worship) of images. In Exodus 25:18 the Bible states that Moses was commanded by God to "make 2 cherubim of gold, make them of hammered work at the two ends of the mercy seat." Roman Catholic scholars often argue that this verse justifies and supports the RCC's veneration of sacred images. Is that your belief also?
Yes and they would be wrong like normal.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
The Roman Catholic Church totally supports the veneration (aka: worship) of images. In Exodus 25:18 the Bible states that Moses was commanded by God to "make 2 cherubim of gold, make them of hammered work at the two ends of the mercy seat." Roman Catholic scholars often argue that this verse justifies and supports the RCC's veneration of sacred images. Is that your belief also?
Why do you think that those images were required by God? To make it look pretty?
 

balshan

Well-known member
Can't answer why God would require graven images after He forbade graven images?
The poster made a good point, there were no worshipping of the images, only one person saw them, once a year. There was no praying to the statues, bowing before, lighting candles before them, or parading them around. You are comparing apples and oranges. You are the one who cannot show one apostle who had graven images or prayed to them or bowed before them.
 

mica

Well-known member
leonard03782 said:
Not to be bowed and scraped to. There is only one person that would ever see those images......the high priest of the temple, one time ayear.
Can't answer why God would require graven images after He forbade graven images?
did He forbid Himself to do that? did He place those 'images' above Himself?

is the rcc God? do you hold yourself to be on the same level as you do God?
 

leonard03782

Well-known member
Can't answer why God would require graven images after He forbade graven images?
GOD does not require graven images. Your apostate false religion requires them. GOD has not changed since the infinite past and HE will not change at all into the infinite future. GOD does not lie, the rcc does. By propagating the lies of the rcc, you do too. The rcc has gone out of it's way over the last 1700 years to make a liar out GOD the Father, Jesus the SON, and GOD the Holy Spirit.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
GOD does not require graven images. Your apostate false religion requires them. GOD has not changed since the infinite past and HE will not change at all into the infinite future. GOD does not lie, the rcc does. By propagating the lies of the rcc, you do too. The rcc has gone out of it's way over the last 1700 years to make a liar out GOD the Father, Jesus the SON, and GOD the Holy Spirit.
Ex 25:18
 

A new day

Well-known member
There is no Scripture that commands or hints at any form of worship of images. Worship of images, statues, mary, saints, angels, etc.... is NEVER commanded by God. There is nothing on this earth that can be equal in God's glory, power, and majesty. There is nothing that we could make, that would accurately represent or be compared to God's nature, character and being.

Only God is worthy of our great respect and reverence. Treating something created with "great respect" or "with great reverence" that which is reserved for God turns it into idolatry, instead of merely honoring someone. When homage is paid to someone or something, it is an act of worshiping something other than God. Only the creator, who made the world ex nihilo (“out of nothing”), deserves such glory and honor.

From many of the prayers TO mary and saints, etc... we see that they are forms of worship. One only needs to look at the wording, and direction that wording is going in. Scripture tells us, that that we can boldly go to the throne of God directly with all our cares and wants. We don't need to go through mary, saints, angels, or dead people to talk to God for us, for we can go directly to God ourselves.

There is honor, and then there is excessive honor which leads to worshiping someone or something. When the bible speaks of honoring someone, it is NEVER in the context of "great respect" "with awe" or with "special recognition" so much that the person is placed on a pedestal. That is worship that belongs only to God. Just because something has been practiced by past generations, does not automatically make that custom or act of tradition, correct.

Much of the traditions practiced by the Jewish leaders in the NT, were condemned by Jesus. We can see that since He condemned their traditions, that their beliefs in those traditions and Jewish customs were wrong, even though they had been practicing them for generations. The reason Jesus condemned traditions, and customs was because they did not line up with Scripture. In other words, their traditions disobeyed what God had commanded them in Scripture.
 
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