Defending Christianity from Christians

Ten million Catholics all praying to Mary simultaneously. How can she sort them all out?

That takes God to be able to do.
1 Corinthians 2:Spiritual Wisdom
…8None of the rulers of this age understood it. For if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9Rather, as it is written: No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no heart has imagined, what God has prepared for those who love Him.” 10But God has revealed it to us by the Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.…


Now what kind of thing do you suppose was prepared for Mary? You can't say she doesn't love God. She carried, bore and raised God Incarnate, no ? Incarnate from her flesh, no?
 
Well played!

ἐπίγνωσις
  1. precise and correct knowledge
    1. used in the NT of the knowledge of things ethical and divine
This shows a lack of faith. You, using a few Greek words before all, of which most can't understand , shows you know not there is no use or gain by doing so before men on account of the faith. Vain babbling ........ continue.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
But if you don't grow, you are like someone who is short-sighted or blind, and has forgotten that God delivered him from the old life of sin;
So be sure of of your call and election, then you will never stumble and in this way you will be given a rich; lavish ·welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world...
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ —it is by grace you have been saved. Eph 2
GeneZ said:
My pastor taught us with the Greek tenses all the time. It totally transformed reality back to where its supposed to be.
προορίσας ἡμᾶς εἰς υἱοθεσίαν διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ εἰς αὐτόν, κατὰ τὴν εὐδοκίαν τοῦ θελήματος αὐτοῦ, εἰς ἔπαινον δόξης τῆς χάριτος αὐτοῦ ἧς ἐχαρίτωσεν ἡμᾶς ἐν τῷ ἠγαπημένῳ, ἐν ᾧ ἔχομεν τὴν ἀπολύτρωσιν διὰ τοῦ αἵματος αὐτοῦ, τὴν ἄφεσιν τῶν παραπτωμάτων, κατὰ τὸ πλοῦτος τῆς χάριτος αὐτοῦ ἧς ἐπερίσσευσεν εἰς ἡμᾶς ἐν πάσῃ σοφίᾳ καὶ φρονήσει ΠΡΟΣ ΕΦΕΣΙΟΥΣ 1:5-8
That is just Greek. With no Greek tenses explained.
Did your pastor also teach you that In Christ we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding? 1:5-8

See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! 1 John 3:1
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Well played!

ἐπίγνωσις
  1. precise and correct knowledge
    1. used in the NT of the knowledge of things ethical and divine

Epignosis is "living knowledge" that becomes a part of our spiritual life enabled by the power of the Spirit. We are transformed into His image by means of epignosis circulating in our conscious.

Gnosis is simply knowledge that is academic in nature. Any book worm can quote commentaries and have no insight nor life in what they answer with. They have gnosis only and can be a pain when trying to fit in thinking they have a rightful place with those who understand epignosis.

All epignosis began as 'gnosis.' Gnosis is gaining knowledge that we learn. Its packaged food that we pack away in our mind. Once it becomes epignosis it resides in out heart. Gnosis is to be learned from a competent teacher with spiritual integrity.

When ready the filling of the Spirit takes the gnosis "knowledge food" and digests it. Then by the power of the Holy Spirit, assimilates that digested knowledge to circulate within our spiritual blood (our human spirit). The nutrients then pass along the "knowledge nutrients' to nourish our spiritual health.

That's how I see it. ;)
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Did your pastor also teach you that In Christ we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding? 1:5-8

See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! 1 John 3:1

What are you doing?

Why are you being so defensive?

Where is that "wisdom and understanding" you quote from?
You are acting anti intelligence.

Paul was their teacher. He was a genius that God called with a special calling.

John also wrote in the Greek on a much higher level of understanding and detail that mainstream translations were never designed to convey.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Lol! And what does this have to do with anything?

I grew up with Catholicism all around me. Practically everyone I dated or were friends with were Catholic. I am very favorable towards Catholics as people with fond memories.

It is believed by Bible scholars that Mary worship was integrated into practice by the Catholic system to appease the women who came out of paganism who still adored Diana worship. They came up with a solution for them to keep them happy. But, it was unfortunately a compromise with Bible doctrine.

And.. also needing to be understood? Mary did not have to be a virgin to give birth to a sinless body for Jesus. That is a wrong application.

For the Bible reveals that a woman's seed (ovum) is free of the genetic defect that passes along the sin nature. (Genesis 3:15)

Mary was a virgin to serve as a "sign." A SIGN that her conception was without a human father. For it was by one fallen man's sperm that sin entered the world, not by the woman's ovum.

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin,
and in this way death came to all people." Romans 5:12​


Even though the woman was the first to become fallen? It says it was by the male sperm that the sin nature is transferred to all mankind. Why?

The woman's ovum does not pass along the sin nature. That is why Mary could be a sinner saved by grace, yet be used of God to produce a sinless body for Jesus! For, the Holy Spirit supplied the needed perfect male genetic material to fertilize Mary's ovum. Thus, bypassing any human father. A human father that would have passed down the fallen nature with his sperm.

grace and peace .........
 

Lastdaysbeliever

Well-known member
Epignosis is "living knowledge" that becomes a part of our spiritual life enabled by the power of the Spirit. We are transformed into His image by means of epignosis circulating in our conscious.

Gnosis is simply knowledge that is academic in nature. Any book worm can quote commentaries and have no insight nor life in what they answer with. They have gnosis only and can be a pain when trying to fit in thinking they have a rightful place with those who understand epignosis.

All epignosis began as 'gnosis.' Gnosis is gaining knowledge that we learn. Its packaged food that we pack away in our mind. Once it becomes epignosis it resides in out heart. Gnosis is to be learned from a competent teacher with spiritual integrity.

When ready the filling of the Spirit takes the gnosis "knowledge food" and digests it. Then by the power of the Holy Spirit, assimilates that digested knowledge to circulate within our spiritual blood (our human spirit). The nutrients then pass along the "knowledge nutrients' to nourish our spiritual health.

That's how I see it. ;)

The other poster is putting forward secret gnosis, that only he knows. That's a mistake for me not insuring I was referring to what he claims properly. That said, thanks for the insight above.
 
I grew up with Catholicism all around me. Practically everyone I dated or were friends with were Catholic. I am very favorable towards Catholics as people with fond memories.

It is believed by Bible scholars that Mary worship was integrated into practice by the Catholic system to appease the women who came out of paganism who still adored Diana worship. They came up with a solution for them to keep them happy. But, it was unfortunately a compromise with Bible doctrine.

And.. also needing to be understood? Mary did not have to be a virgin to give birth to a sinless body for Jesus. That is a wrong application.

For the Bible reveals that a woman's seed (ovum) is free of the genetic defect that passes along the sin nature. (Genesis 3:15)

Mary was a virgin to serve as a "sign." A SIGN that her conception was without a human father. For it was by one fallen man's sperm that sin entered the world, not by the woman's ovum.

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin,
and in this way death came to all people." Romans 5:12​


Even though the woman was the first to become fallen? It says it was by the male sperm that the sin nature is transferred to all mankind. Why?

The woman's ovum does not pass along the sin nature. That is why Mary could be a sinner saved by grace, yet be used of God to produce a sinless body for Jesus! For, the Holy Spirit supplied the needed perfect male genetic material to fertilize Mary's ovum. Thus, bypassing any human father. A human father that would have passed down the fallen nature with his sperm.

grace and peace .........
Ok! believe it or not I believe some of this. Before I continue, let me ask you, if I prove some Truths of Catholic doctrine and also point out the error would you be interested in an intellectual conversation? You might be surprised. I will tell you what I agree with concerning you views and then add some things. We must both agree truth is truth right? For there is only one truth, so, let me present. The only thing you have to lose is some errors and gain a greater doctrine that would supersede what Catholic and your denom presently have.
 

Unknown Soldier

Well-known member
They need to hear the word of God according to it's God given perfect immediate context as much as anyone else.
And the Word of God convicts the hearer of the hearer's sin.
Check out the verbs in the following section of Scripture. The verbs in bold teal are present tense and indicate an ongoing action. The verbs in bold blue are present indicative, those are statements of fact or truth.

“8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Yes, we all have sins in our past, and true, some of the unrepentant may at present dishonestly deny those sins of their past.
9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
That's correct, and what the Holy Ghost has cleansed of sin is not to be soiled with sin again.
10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1Jo 1:8-10, KJVA)
Yes, the unrepentant often masquerade as the people of God.

Christians are still sinners in this life.
Let's take a look at 1 John 3:
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
What God reveals to us here is as plain as day. No true follower of Christ who is truly indwelled and regenerated by the Holy Ghost sins. If you do sin, then you are not of Christ but are of the devil. I pray that you repent and allow the Son of God to destroy the works of the devil in your life.
 

Lastdaysbeliever

Well-known member
What God reveals to us here is as plain as day. No true follower of Christ who is truly indwelled and regenerated by the Holy Ghost sins. If you do sin, then you are not of Christ but are of the devil. I pray that you repent and allow the Son of God to destroy the works of the devil in your life.

So then, according to your claim I guess Paul was of the devil.

Romans 7:15-20 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
 
Your claim is an out and out abrogation of the truth and your outright hatred for born-again Christians speaks of whom you serve,
No, I don't. If I hated you I would not be trying to help you.
Nor does it say to reject the mother of John the Baptist.

You a Catholic?
Your beef is with Mary. To Catholics I am not Catholic because I disagree with some things. So, NO! I am simply Christian.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
But if you don't grow, you are like someone who is short-sighted or blind, and has forgotten that God delivered him from the old life of sin;
So be sure of of your call and election, then you will never stumble and in this way you will be given a rich; lavish ·welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world...
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ —it is by grace you have been saved. Eph 2
GeneZ said:
My pastor taught us with the Greek tenses all the time. It totally transformed reality back to where its supposed to be.
προορίσας ἡμᾶς εἰς υἱοθεσίαν διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ εἰς αὐτόν, κατὰ τὴν εὐδοκίαν τοῦ θελήματος αὐτοῦ, εἰς ἔπαινον δόξης τῆς χάριτος αὐτοῦ ἧς ἐχαρίτωσεν ἡμᾶς ἐν τῷ ἠγαπημένῳ, ἐν ᾧ ἔχομεν τὴν ἀπολύτρωσιν διὰ τοῦ αἵματος αὐτοῦ, τὴν ἄφεσιν τῶν παραπτωμάτων, κατὰ τὸ πλοῦτος τῆς χάριτος αὐτοῦ ἧς ἐπερίσσευσεν εἰς ἡμᾶς ἐν πάσῃ σοφίᾳ καὶ φρονήσει ΠΡΟΣ ΕΦΕΣΙΟΥΣ 1:5-8
GeneZ said:
That is just Greek. With no Greek tenses explained.
Did your pastor also teach you that In Christ we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding? 1:5-8

See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! 1 John 3:1
All epignosis began as 'gnosis.'
Epignosis is "living knowledge" that becomes a part of our spiritual life enabled by the power of the Spirit.
So, to sum it up, your gnosis comes to fruition which then becomes part of your spiritual life enabled (by faith) by the power of the Spirit.
That's how I see it.
My teaching was not with the Greek tenses so that your faith would be in God’s power and not in human wisdom. (1 Cor 2:4)
 

Unknown Soldier

Well-known member
So then, according to your claim I guess Paul was of the devil.
I quoted 1 John! Do you have a disagreement with John?
Romans 7:15-20 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
"A text without a context is a pretext." Do you really think Paul is telling us that he's literally doing evil? I just read the context of Romans 7, and Paul is speaking of his sinning hypothetically. I formatted in bold Paul's conditional statement as an example of his hypothetical argumentation. He's explaining what he and his life would be if he sinned.

Again, repent and be saved.
 
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BJ Bear

Well-known member
Let's take a look at 1 John 3:

What God reveals to us here is as plain as day. No true follower of Christ who is truly indwelled and regenerated by the Holy Ghost sins. If you do sin, then you are not of Christ but are of the devil. I pray that you repent and allow the Son of God to destroy the works of the devil in your life.
Just a couple quick comments regarding 1 John 3 because the interpretation you offer contradicts both 1 John 1 and 1 John 2.

A pertinent section of 1 John 1 was already cited and in 1 John 2 he writes, "If anyone sins we have an advocate..." 1 John 2:1. The verb translated as have indicates an ongoing action

"8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

Verse eight is a statement of fact or truth, that is, the one that sins is of the devil. In other words, sin is not the work of God.

"9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

The verb translated as commit indicates an ongoing action. "He cannot," is a statement of fact or truth.

A different translation whixh is in modern English translates it this way, “No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.” (1Jo 3:9, EMTV)

The words, "keep on sinning," are in line with the context of the verb translated as "practicing."

"10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of [from] God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

Those are two statements of fact or truth. The bold dark orange, doeth, is a participle which helps tell us who is of the set that, "is not of God."

The last thing I would ask you to consider is the idiomatic speech found in the NT. For example, when Jesus told Peter, "Get thee behind me, Satan...," He was referring to Peter's attitude and action rather than saying Peter was actually Satan.
 
Ok! believe it or not I believe some of this. Before I continue, let me ask you, if I prove some Truths of Catholic doctrine and also point out the error would you be interested in an intellectual conversation? You might be surprised. I will tell you what I agree with concerning you views and then add some things. We must both agree truth is truth right? For there is only one truth, so, let me present. The only thing you have to lose is some errors and gain a greater doctrine that would supersede what Catholic and your denom presently have.
That's what I thought The Elect will continue to watch.
 

Lastdaysbeliever

Well-known member
I quoted 1 John! Do you have a disagreement with John?

"A text without a context is a pretext." Do you really think Paul is telling us that he's literally doing evil? I just read the context of Romans 7, and Paul is speaking of his sinning hypothetically. I formatted in bold Paul's conditional statement as an example of his hypothetical aargumentation. He's explaining what he and his life would be if he sinned.

Again, repent and be saved.
You are wrong, you are putting forward a false teaching and a lie. If anyone says they are without sin they are a liar. That includes someone who claims to be a "true Christian".
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Ok! believe it or not I believe some of this. Before I continue, let me ask you, if I prove some Truths of Catholic doctrine and also point out the error ....
For starters, as a whole, all Christians agree that Mary, Isaiah 7:14, Micah 5:2, Luke 1:30-35 conceived through the power of the Holy Spirit.
truth is truth right?
And the truth is that there is only one way mankind can rightly approach God. That way is through Christ Jesus. 1 Tim 2:5

We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:6

After He has suffered, He will see the light of life, Isaiah 53:11

The Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would proclaim the light of salvation to His own people and to the Gentiles. Acts 26:23

“He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls. 1 Peter 2:24-25
 
You are wrong, you are putting forward a false teaching and a lie. If anyone says they are without sin they are a liar. That includes someone who claims to be a "true Christian".
You fail to realize ( as you do with many things) that we are called to NOT remain in sin. Hence, "Be prefect as your heavenly Father is perfect". Christ would not say that if it were not possible. We must all come knowing we are sinners (yes) and are in need of salvation unto redemption. However, we get to the point where we abide as the Beloved John teaches.

Salvation and Redemption are not the same but correspond. Salvation is the retrieval of the soul from sin. Redemption is to be redeemed, get back the original state of the garden of Eden. True devoted Christians who stay continuously in God's presence- Grace, will experience the glimpse of what is to be with their own Transfiguration. That is why Christ did so before the apostles. That is a state before your resurection and it is a face to face meeting with God.

Mother Mary is the first, at her yes to have that. At her yes she abides in Christ.Just as the beloved John reveals. The power of the Most High baptized her as God did when He would send manna over the Isrealite camp. When the cloud ascended dew would be left upon the camp and heavenly food left behind. Therefore, Mother Mary was born of the Imperishable Seed.
That is Immaculate Conception. At her yes she was Immaculately conceived in that holy seed- The Word of God. After which she Immaculately conceived The Word of God in her womb, that Christ be Incarnated of her flesh. How is She The Immaculate Conception?

Well, since at her yes she abides and is Transfigure as Moses was from being in the presence of God, she is the Immaculate Conception of the faith. That means she is the clean conception-beginning of the church. A Conception always denotes a beginning. She being born again, at her yes, is the first birth among the faithful. With all births , even being born again -has a conception.

A born again conception however, is Immaculate because it is in Christ. That is why she sang her song. Her soul therefore, magnifies the Lord- which means- like all magnification she brings others closer to God. Her spirit rejoices in Him because He is her Savior- Pretty clear He saved her. Moving forward, she is the perfect mirror of Christ as is stated about wisdom in the OT.

As Christ 's beloved we are told to not let anyone deceive us, in Christ no one can keep on sinning, we are righteous as Christ is righteous. Only those of the devil remain in sin. In Christ we put off the old and put on the new. The flesh gets put into submission to the spirit- the inner new man.

" Why are you downcast, why has your countenance fallen? If you do good will you not be accepted? Sin is crouching at the door, its desire is for you but you must master it!"

St. Paul shares his struggle with the flesh as a testimony about the struggle. For some it is more difficult depending on the depth and degree of sin .

In Christ we ultimately live sin free. Before death sin is mastered in our members. For some sooner, others later. That is why Christ came into the world- to destroy sin. Paul would accomplish that, he simply was used as a teaching tool by Christ to show us the process that the many will have. His process was a deeper degree than say John's. But he would accomplish exactly what John teaches.

So, this perpetual sin gospel is not scriptural. The gospel of Jesus Christ is one for those who want to be conquerors! You probably can't escape preaching that sin gospel because you reject the First of whom salvation came to.🤨

The saints are not dead, they are in heaven spiritually alive!
 
For starters, as a whole, all Christians agree that Mary, Isaiah 7:14, Micah 5:2, Luke 1:30-35 conceived through the power of the Holy Spirit.

And the truth is that there is only one way mankind can rightly approach God. That way is through Christ Jesus. 1 Tim 2:5

We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:6

After He has suffered, He will see the light of life, Isaiah 53:11

The Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would proclaim the light of salvation to His own people and to the Gentiles. Acts 26:23

“He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls. 1 Peter 2:24-25
Seems you missed the point of that post. It was to get an audience to first allow me to FIRST lay down my case, not have my asking allowance to be picked apart. I didn't even lay down my case yet and here you go trying to argue points against me when I didn't even give full disclosure. That is an example of fear and pride. Seems you are too concerned with your own image. I was very civil in asking for the oppurtunity to share The New Song which is the eternal gospel. I asked for that to be shared and to then engage in an intellectual conversation and debate. Not ask and simply have scriptures thrown at me before my argument is even heard. Yesh! Get over yourself.
 
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