Defending Christianity from Christians

Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God... 1 John 5:1
As Jim Jones and David Koresh believed that Jesus is the Christ?

Jon, beliefs are not real, beliefs are nearly speculation. Want reality? Then receieve from God that what Jesus receieved form Him in Matt 3:16, He will open up to you the very same as He did in Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus 120 and in me. You are not identified with with God, you are identified with Paul instead.
Again, renewal is through Jesus Christ; Through Him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, 1 Peter 1:21
Nope misinterpretation. Not through Jesus Christ, but by Jesus and having in you the same he receieved from God and Jesus was very clear no one come to the Father but his same way as he receieved from God in Matt 3:16. You are trying to get to a heaven that you have created without Him and you are not going to enter Gods kingdom, heaven, at all least you receive His kingdom, Heaven, in you as Jesus did in Matt 3:16.

Until you do that you will never know what it is to be born again, born of God to have His same mind, which is His kingdom within.
Jesus is“‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’
Yes, you reject the very reason God sent that man to show you His ways, His truth, and His life to live it yourself in which you reject openly.
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:11-12
Yes and Jesus received His salvation in Matt 3:16 where his mind was renewed to think in Gods terms instead o the laws for the pews of your temples.
If you didn't have a depraved gnostic mind, you would come to the knowledge of the truth that all of God's people are reconciled to God through the Son of God.
If I didnt believe as these do I would be like you who doesnt believe that Gods kingdom, Spirit, is in man, and not of Gods Spirit that is within me.
Coming to Him, the living Stone—rejected by gnostics but chosen by God,...
Yes the gods you have chosen are so opposed to receiving from God His same Spirit, mind, as Jesus did in Matt 3:16.
They stumble because they disobey the gospel of Jesus Christ;
Absolutely, these refuse to be perfect even as God in heaven is perfect.
But you are a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s chosen people, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. 1 Peter 1
I am indeed for I have received from God the very same One that Jesus leads us to, but because His ways is negative for you but really is gnostic teachings, is the very reason you cant understand what gnosticism is no more than you can comprehend the same teachings of Jesus that is of God manifest in you just as He was manifest in himself. See Matt 3:16. He would do the same in you but because His ways are blaspheme for you you go without the promises of His gift be in you.
 
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God... 1 John 5:1
Again, renewal is through Jesus Christ; Through Him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, 1 Peter 1:21
Jesus is“‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:11-12
If you didn't have a depraved gnostic mind, you would come to the knowledge of the truth that all of God's people are reconciled to God through the Son of God.
Coming to Him, the living Stone—rejected by gnostics but chosen by God,...
They stumble because they disobey the gospel of Jesus Christ;
But you are a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s chosen people, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. 1 Peter 1
As Jim Jones and David Koresh believed that Jesus is the Christ? Jon, beliefs are not real,

Nope misinterpretation. Not through Jesus Christ,
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins. John 8:24
 
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I haven't argued that "Christians" cannot sin. I've argued that a truly saved person cannot and does not sin in obedience to God and Christ. The scriptures I've posted clearly prove that position to be true.
Nonsense. That is a remarkably Christ less witness which uses imaginary false categories. Set aside whichever extra biblical books you've been reading or whoever you have been listening to which has led you to such an obtuse and false conclusion.

A better course of action is to read Scripture and ask yourself what does it say? After you are sure what a passage says then and only then ask yourself what does it mean? If you conclude that it means something other than what it says then go back to step one and read the passage five times more times and then ask yourself what does it mean? Repeat the process as many times as necessary until you recognize that it means what it says.

“¶O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.” (Dan 9:16, KJVA)

The prayer is that according the Lord's righteousness or justification, not the supplicants righteousness or justification or the rifhteouness of the fathers or that of the people, let Your anger and fury be turned away from Jerusalem.

God's righteousness or justification is manifested in the person and work of Christ.

“21. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22. Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:” (Rom 3:21-22, KJVA)

Scripture testifies to this same simple truth, from Genesis through Revelation. If you are a KJV guy then try searching on, "thy righteousness."

“30. But of him [not of you] are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness [or justification] and sanctification, and redemption: 31. That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. [rather than yourself](1Cor 1:30-31, KJVA)
 
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins. John 8:24
You have read where Jesus never spoke of himself but of his Father who sent him you just don’t believe Jesus that he never spoke of himself but spoke of his God is why you do not know who the One is Jesus spoke of who is I Am is.

And in that and because you will go to the grave being the sinner that you say that you are instead of being the righteousness of God by His Spirit.
You just do not believe anything Jesus said about his God and who he was in his God.
 
Are we Christians our own worse enemies? It sometimes looks that way. Some critics of Christianity have pointed out that there is no Christianity (singular) but actually "Christianities." Christian sects number in the ten-thousands many of these sects denouncing many other sects as "cults" full of phony ignoramuses hard at work for the enemy. Of course, if any Christians are untrue believing in false doctrine, it is almost always some other Christians who are so--never we--oh no.

In any case, unbelievers have a field day over all this infighting. They say we are all confused over our own Bible and theology without even realizing it. They point out that this Christian vs. Christian fighting has destroyed the lives of many Christians. To them we are fools who kill and maim for no good reason.

So does Christianity need to be defended from Christians? It sure looks that way to me. I'd recommend that we Christians be a bit more tolerant about our differences and be more willing to recognize our common ground

Of course, if any Christians are untrue believing in false doctrine, it is almost always some other Christians who are so--never we--oh no.

So your defifinition of Christian is very, very broad. Truth is less important to you than inclusuion. You can be very liberal but being liberal doesn't change TRUTH. In your opinion no one should expose error?
 
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JonHawk said:
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God... 1 John 5:1
Again, renewal is through Jesus Christ; Through Him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, 1 Peter 1:21
Jesus is“‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:11-12
If you didn't have a depraved gnostic mind, you would come to the knowledge of the truth that all of God's people are reconciled to God through the Son of God.
Coming to Him, the living Stone—rejected by gnostics but chosen by God,...
They stumble because they disobey the gospel of Jesus Christ;
But you are a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s chosen people, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. 1 Peter 1
Gary Mac said:
Jon, beliefs are not real,

Nope misinterpretation. Not through Jesus Christ,
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins. John 8:24
You have read where Jesus never spoke of himself but of his Father who sent him you just don’t believe Jesus that he never spoke of himself but spoke of his God is why you do not know who the One is Jesus spoke of who is I Am is.
You will die in your sins because you do not believe in Me; John 16:9 You refuse to come to Me to have life. John 5:40
And in that and because you will go to the grave being the sinner that you say that you are instead of being the righteousness of God by His Spirit.
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, 1 John 2:2
You just do not believe anything Jesus said about his God and who he was in his God.
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. John 3:18
 
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JonHawk said:

Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God... 1 John 5:1
Yes for the same anointing who was in Jesus, Christ in him, is the same Christ in me, same anointing of God by the same Spirit who anointed Jesus in Matt 3:16. Christ in me. I know that Christ is not in you as He was in Jesus and do understand your confusion for who Christ is.
Again, renewal is through Jesus Christ; Through Him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, 1 Peter 1:21
Nope renewal is the same way Jesus mind was renewed in Matt 3:16 where God came to that man and opened up who He is and all of His heaven in that man anointing hi by His Spirit and He does the very same in us all who will receieve Him.. You just refuse to receieve Him that you may be His anointed as well.
Jesus is“‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’
Yes the very one that you reject and has made him a god instead.
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:11-12
That is right even Jesus had to go through Gods salvation in Matt 3:16 where he became like God to know the difference from the laws of your temples and Gods Spirit to be like Him instead to like these temples that God kicked him out of just as He kicked Adam out from the laws to those pews.
If you didn't have a depraved gnostic mind, you would come to the knowledge of the truth that all of God's people are reconciled to God through the Son of God.
Aww but I have come to the same knowledge of truth that Jesus came to the knowledge of Gods truths in Matt 3:16.

Y9our confusion about Him is from lack in receiving from God yourself as Jesus came to lead you to that you reject.
Coming to Him, the living Stone—rejected by gnostics but chosen by God,...
All are chosen by God but few who choose Him in His ways as Jesus did in Matt 3:16. Something you really should at least consider of the ways of Jesus in the Father.
They stumble because they disobey the gospel of Jesus Christ;
For sure these refuse to be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect as Jesus commands of you if you are to be of God as he was of God and walk as He walks in His same light as Jesus did. To you the gnostic Jesus as you call him will never reveal who God is for you as Hr=e reveals Himself in Jesus in Matt 3:16.
But you are a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s chosen people, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. 1 Peter 1
Indeed we are who has received from God that what Jesus did in Matt 3:16. Adam did, Abraham did, Moses did, 120 did -- you only exclude yourself from the same is all.
You will die in your sins because you do not believe in Me; John 16:9 You refuse to come to Me to have life. John 5:40
And you do not believe Him at all or you would be like Him as Jesu was like Him.

One thing for certain is when, or if, you ever do see Him as He is ye shall be like Him as Jesus received from Him to be like Him in Matt 3"16

See 1 John 3 obviously you have not seen Him as He is or you would be like Him to.
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, 1 John 2:2
Yes Christ is indeed, for we are anointed of God, but you are anointed of Paul as a sinner instead.
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. John 3:18
Whoever has received from God the same as Jesus did cannot be condemned. But you in your sinners are condemned already.
 
Y9our confusion about Him is from lack in receiving from God yourself as Jesus came to lead you to that you reject.
The confusion is all in your depraved gnostic mind.
To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. Acts 10:42-44
JonHawk said:
Jesus is“‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’
Yes the very one that you reject and has made him a god instead.
He is the one you reject as Lord and Christ.
You know the word God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. Acts 10:36
Yes Christ is indeed, for we are anointed of God, but you are anointed of Paul as a sinner instead.
He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thess 2:12
Whoever has received from God the same as Jesus did cannot be condemned. But you in your sinners are condemned already.
These deceitful gnostics perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
 
In your opinion no one should expose error?
No, we all should expose error if those errors involve sin. We just need to make sure to expose our own errors first, then we have the purity of heart to judge others clearly. As far as doctrine is concerned, we should realize that we all have biases and are prone to misunderstanding scripture. Judging the doctrines of other Christians as wrong merely because it differs from our own doctrines is unwarranted until we have demonstrated our own doctrines to be truly of God.
 
No, we all should expose error if those errors involve sin. We just need to make sure to expose our own errors first, then we have the purity of heart to judge others clearly. As far as doctrine is concerned, we should realize that we all have biases and are prone to misunderstanding scripture. Judging the doctrines of other Christians as wrong merely because it differs from our own doctrines is unwarranted until we have demonstrated our own doctrines to be truly of God.
Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, to destroy the works of the devil.
 
The confusion is all in your depraved gnostic mind.
You never have considered that Jesus is the way of the Father, that is why his ways in the Father are gnostic lies for you for sure.

You never can answer my question of -- What if God really did send Jesus to show you His ways?
To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. Acts 10:42-44
Yes just as Jesus the prophet received from Him in Matt 3:16 that you call gnostic lies who was first hand witness of God and without sin and talked about it. You just never have heard the words of the prophet Jesus.

Ironic is in your quote of Paul who said who believe in Him, big H, will receive remission of sins, but Paul never believed and never got free from his sins to be in remission of them.
He is the one you reject as Lord and Christ.
Actually I am like Him. Perhaps it isn't I who rejects the teachings of Jesus in righteousness, for you are very clear that you follow a sinner as Paul instead. You know Paul you know for sure for he is all that you can quote of as a sinner, but dont have a clue about the Christ.
You know the word God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. Acts 10:36
The word God sent to Jesus in Matt 3:16 is the same word He sends in us all who has received the same as Jesus did from Him.
He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thess 2:12
He called me through the Spirit that He is. He called Jesus to Himself as well in Matt 3:16. I dont go by Pauls gospel for sin, for Christ be my righteousness is the better way for me.
These deceitful gnostics perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Boy they do that for sure. To have Gods Spirit in you as the Gnostics teach and Jesus taught is blaspheme for you for sure.
 
No, we all should expose error if those errors involve sin. We just need to make sure to expose our own errors first, then we have the purity of heart to judge others clearly. As far as doctrine is concerned, we should realize that we all have biases and are prone to misunderstanding scripture. Judging the doctrines of other Christians as wrong merely because it differs from our own doctrines is unwarranted until we have demonstrated our own doctrines to be truly of God.
That is impossible to do so evident in the case of Jesus. He went about in demonstration but not one person, not even one of his own disciples came to be identified with him in his trials and tribulations, every single one of them denied his truths to be in the Father themselves as he was in the Father.
 
Yes just as Jesus the prophet received from Him in Matt 3:16 that you call gnostic lies who was first hand witness of God and without sin and talked about it. You just never have heard the words of the prophet Jesus. I dont go by Pauls gospel for sin, for Christ be my righteousness is the better way for me.
To have Gods Spirit in you as the Gnostics teach and Jesus taught is blaspheme for you for sure.
Paul acknowledged that he was formerly a blasphemer, who did not know Christ, "Who are you Lord?"
Ironic is in your quote of Paul who said who believe in Him, big H, will receive remission of sins, but Paul never believed and never got free from his sins to be in remission of them.
After his conversion he went straight to the synagogue to tell everyone there the Good News about Christ—that he is indeed the Son of God! Acts 9:20
You never can answer my question of -- What if God really did send Jesus to show you His ways?
I have answered repeatedly: By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 1 John 4:13-15
 
No, we all should expose error if those errors involve sin. We just need to make sure to expose our own errors first, then we have the purity of heart to judge others clearly. As far as doctrine is concerned, we should realize that we all have biases and are prone to misunderstanding scripture. Judging the doctrines of other Christians as wrong merely because it differs from our own doctrines is unwarranted until we have demonstrated our own doctrines to be truly of God.
"Other Christians" can be non-Christians who preach lies about God according to misinformed humans.
 
Gary Mac said:
To have Gods Spirit in you as the Gnostics teach and Jesus taught is blaspheme for you for sure.
Paul acknowledged that he was formerly a blasphemer, who did not know Christ, "Who are you Lord?"
Gary Mac said:
Ironic is in your quote of Paul who said who believe in Him, big H, will receive remission of sins, but Paul never believed ...
After his conversion he went straight to the synagogue to tell everyone there the Good News about Christ—that he is indeed the Son of God! Acts 9:20
Gary Mac said:
You never can answer my question of -- What if God really did send Jesus to show you His ways?
I have answered repeatedly: By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 1 John 4:13-15
OK, but please don't accuse people of lying just because they disagree with you.
10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 1 John 5
 
Paul acknowledged that he was formerly a blasphemer, who did not know Christ, "Who are you Lord?"
He never knew the Christ, he always was of sin and not of Christ to be Gods anointed.
After his conversion he went straight to the synagogue to tell everyone there the Good News about Christ—that he is indeed the Son of God! Acts 9:20
So did Jim Jones and David Koresh, they saw the Lord as well LOL.
I have answered repeatedly: By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 1 John 4:13-15
No you have not answered it at all. God didnt send Jesus to show you His way, you think Paul is your god for all you do is lift up the sinner.

You falsely accuse Jesus of being God just as those of Jesus day falsely accuse him of being God, he was innocent of all charges.

For if God did send Jesus to you to show you His way and if you follow Jesus to Him, you would be exactly like as Jesus was like Him. And if you ever doo see the One Jesus leads us to, ye shall be like him. 1 John 3. But because the teachings of Jesus to be like the Father and perfect as He is, his ways in the Father are gnostic and blaspheme for you
 
He never knew the Christ, he always was of sin and not of Christ to be Gods anointed.
That is why I oppose your gnostic gibberish because I know whom I believe, 2 Tim 1:12
you think Paul is your god for all you do is lift up the sinner.
He grants the crown of righteousness not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing. 2 Tim 4:8
You falsely accuse Jesus of being God just as those of Jesus day falsely accuse him of being God, he was innocent of all charges.
You call it accusing whereas we call it testifying; For this purpose the Son of God appeared, to destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8

But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

Read full chapter
 
I haven't argued that "Christians" cannot sin. I've argued that a truly saved person cannot and does not sin in obedience to God and Christ. The scriptures I've posted clearly prove that position to be true.

Which passage are you referring to? 1 John 3:9 says that those "born of God" (i.e., those who are saved) do not sin.

He wasn't writing only to those who are saved but regarding the unsaved too, of course. Paul wrote his epistles not only to discuss doctrine among the saved but to encourage sinners to repent and be saved. You conflate the two groups. See Romans 10:

Paul here is writing to the saved about those who are not saved. Note that they are not the same group, of course. So if you conclude that those who "have not submitted to God's righteousness" are among the saved, then you fallaciously combine the two groups into one. You've been doing so all along.

Again, you continue to conflate the saved and the unsaved. "Christians" as you use the word here are the saved who "mortify" the unsaved not to sin. The two groups are separated by the lack of sin and the presence of sin, respectively.

Christ only takes away the sin of those who are saved. The unsaved maintain their sin.

Of course I don't despise Christ. If I did despise Him, then I would disregard his many commandments not o sin.

Whatever--you've been checkmated. Proved wrong about the saved sinning. Continuing in that error will have eternal consequences for anybody who believes it and practices it.
To gest an idea of the context in which 1John is written check out a page or two from the writings of John of Damascus . In the section On Heresies, on page 117, starting at point 21 and continuing for about ten or fifteen points, you will see in summary form some of the beliefs and ideas which the Apostle John was writing against in 1 John. (It certainly wasn't against himself in 1 John and the rest of Scripture.)

Although John of Damascus is following previous writers in that section of On Heresies it is being recommended because it is written in straightforward English (Unlike relevant portions of the ANF which were left untranslated.) and because later there is an early account of the Ishmaelites or Muslims, a Christian heresy, starting on page 153, point 101.

The book concludes with On The Orthodox Faith. It is an interesting and worthwhile read.
 
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