Defending Christianity From Judaism

kamaeq

Active member
No, it does not...He said he will blind them.

This is provided they obey all his commandments and turn to God. Is IF too small a word for you to see?

It does not say despite it says if they turn.
It also states that the requirement is to follow what is written in the Law, not convert to Christianity. Since God always appears to work with a remnant, how many does it take for God to reverse the curse? God knows.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
You are correct, I should have written "Jesus as Messiah".

Then how do I make sense out of what you said?

"Yes, Jews rejected and reject to this day Christ as the Messiah, but Jews accepted and accept to this day Christ as Messiah."

Yes, Jews rejected and reject to this day Jesus as the Messiah, but Jews accepted and accept to this day Jesus as Messiah.

Please clarify.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
You are correct, I should have written "Jesus as Messiah".
Actually Christ is Gods anointing in man, His same mind, Spirit, in man, That is the messiah and the only one who can open into man who He is and His heaven just as the messiah came to Jesus by His Spirit and opens up who He is and all of His heaven in Jesus. See Matt 3:16 this is when Jesu became His saint as well as we all are who has receieved the same from God as Jesus did. He didnt know God either until the Messiah came to him and made Jesus like Him just as He does in us all today.

I know, I know, that is blaspheme right? But the facts still remain and is written whether one thinks that God manifested Himself in Jesus to open it all up to Him or not. Matt 3:16, Most dont believe the Bible they read.
 

kamaeq

Active member
Then how do I make sense out of what you said?

"Yes, Jews rejected and reject to this day Christ as the Messiah, but Jews accepted and accept to this day Christ as Messiah."

Yes, Jews rejected and reject to this day Jesus as the Messiah, but Jews accepted and accept to this day Jesus as Messiah.

Please clarify.
That some Jews became Christians in the past and some Jews convert to Christianity now.
Many Jews did not in the past and many do not now.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
This was in response to a comment that God didn't call anyone to be Christian.
No, it was not. If it was you would have shown where he called someone to be a Christian.
Which is the point of my post
Again your point does show that Jews must relinquish their religion.
Actually, they qualify as all three since you can be a Jew by faith, a Jew by birth and a Jew by culture.
No, you cannot. A jew is a follower of the Torah. That means they must obey all the Torah. One is not born obeying anything. one must be taught to obey. Culture can be picked up here and there. For example, wearing a skullcap does not make one a Jew.
I've known people who fit in each of those definitions and usually more than one.
Just because a cat is born in an oven does not make it bread. Even if you call him bread.
I happened to know a gentleman now passed who was a teacher at the local Jewish synagogue, he enjoyed educating my Gentile Christian arse on points that bothered me about Judaism and Christianity as well as readings from the Old Testament I had troubles with.
And your point is?
Whereas the majority of Jews have distinct DNA patterns just like other people groups.
That is rubbish Jews are followers of a religion. There is no DNA for that.
Yes, people can convert into Judaism from different ethnicities and people born Jewish can (from a religious and cultural perspective) leave Judaism.
People are not born Jews, that is like saying one is born Catholic or Muslim or Hindu.
OTOH, both Muslims and Hindus, while possibly predominately certain ethnic groups, also include a diversity of ethnic groups.
So cats born in ovens are now bread? If a baby is born in an ambulance is that baby an American emergency vehicle?
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
That some Jews became Christians in the past and some Jews convert to Christianity now.
Many Jews did not in the past and many do not now.
Your answer shows that being a Jew has nothing to do with ethnicity...Religious conversion is about relinquishing one to accept another thing. One cannot relinquish ethnicity.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
It also states that the requirement is to follow what is written in the Law,
Christ died to remove them from that law.
Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
not convert to Christianity.
Like I said before God did not call anyone to be a Christian. Why do you keep bringing that up?
Since God always appears to work with a remnant, how many does it take for God to reverse the curse? God knows.
There is no reversing the curse. God sent Jesus to remove Israel from under the law. They killed him.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Yep, a life that transcends the physical while living in the physical.
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—Eph 2
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—Eph 2
One cant be rased at all least it is by Christ be in you as He was in Jesus anointed of God. Jesus was raised by Gods anointing in Matt 3;16, so are all who has receieved from god Himself are raised up to Him and walk as He walks in His same light.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
One cant be rased at all least it is by Christ be in you as He was in Jesus anointed of God. Jesus was raised by Gods anointing in Matt 3;16, so are all who has receieved from god Himself are raised up to Him and walk as He walks in His same light.
Glorify God Together
Therefore receive one another, just as Christ also received us, to the glory of God. Rom 15:7
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Glorify God Together
Therefore receive one another, just as Christ also received us, to the glory of God. Rom 15:7
I receive everyone, I am not biased to anyone. What I do not receive is somes opinions about their gods that is aside from that of Jesus to be like the Father myself as Jesus was like Him by the same mind be in me who was in Christ Jesus.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
Glorify God Together
Therefore receive one another, just as Christ also received us, to the glory of God. Rom 15:7
I receive everyone, I am not biased to anyone. What I do not receive is somes opinions about their gods that is aside from that of Jesus to be like the Father myself as Jesus was like Him by the same mind be in me who was in Christ Jesus.
I speak the truth in Christ— my conscience confirms it through the Holy Spirit—Rom 9:1
False prophets and Bad trees too?
You know that foolish prophets who have seen nothing and those who follow them are both condemned.

They will bear their guilt—the prophet will be as guilty as the one who consults him. Ezekiel 14:10
 

Unknown Soldier

Active member
Yet for all of the blessing and cursing of the Jewish people we see in the Bible, it always ends in reconciliation. Yes, I think that reconciliation will be with Christ as the Messiah in the end, we see some of it (the worldly parts) in the nation of Israel. The doctrine of the remnant comes from the Old Testament, even though it is included in the New Testament.
That "cursing" you mention is rooted in the people of Israel being conquered by foreign powers like Babylon, Persia, and Greece. In all those cases the Jews believed that they were coming under God's judgment for sin. They reacted by seeking reconciliation with God by conducting themselves so as to be forgiven by Him. When Rome occupied Israel, many Jews again sought salvation from God, and that's why God sent Jesus to save the Jews and also the gentiles. So yes, the idea of Jews ultimately and eternally being saved by God has its roots in the Hebrew Bible.
Socialism, in this case the branch know as National Socialism (despite the fact that all socialists of all stripes kill Jews, Christians and any others who disagree with their deity), all consider the State to be the ultimate deity and arbiter of morality and truth.
Read history.
May I read an example of an atheist who caused the Holocaust? Making claims about the Holocaust refusing to back them up is not likely to win converts among the Jews who may see you as lying to free Christianity from blame for the Holocaust.
That particular verse was addressed to those who teach contrary to the Bible. Yes, the example was a certain class of Jews, the Pharisees, but then I have met and read about a great number of Pharisees and their teachings in the present day that call themselves Christians, but teach as the Jewish Pharisees did.
I assume you're referring to John 8:44 which quotes Jesus as saying:

You are from your father the devil, and you choose to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

If we check the context, John 8:31, we see that Jesus is speaking to the "Jews who had believed in Him" who apparently no longer did believe in Jesus. It is those Jews at least whom Jesus said had the Devil as their father. In any event, many Christians throughout the centuries have interpreted John 8 as saying that almost all Jews, surely the Jews who never converted, as having the devil as their father.
The other five that were made. Pretty much if a follower of Judaism admits that any of them are incorrect, then it becomes obvious that Jesus was the Messiah in the end (there may be a couple of steps in there, but it all ends up the same).
If Jesus is the Messiah, then why aren't you a Christian?
If God inspired the New Testament, then why aren't you a Christian?
If the passages in the Old Testament prophecy Jesus, then why aren't you a Christian?
I'm not sure if you're understanding the fact I explained earlier. The list I posted in the OP offers reasons why most Jews don't accept Christ. They would answer your questions by saying Jesus isn't the Messiah, for example, and that's why they don't follow Jesus.
Ah, the one about the Pharisees is trickier and involves why what they (and the other Jewish groups) taught was not in line with the Old Testament. Them being good people and helping humanity isn't relevant there, because people can do that and not be Jewish or Christian and God doesn't set a standard of "being good people and helping humanity" for those who are Jewish or have heard the Gospel of Christ.
I think you're missing the point. Many Jews would respond by saying that the portrayal of the Pharisees in the Gospel simply isn't fair, and that's why Jews object to that portrayal.
If the miracles of Christ prove He was sent by God, then why aren't you a Christian?
Rabbi Skobac of Jews for Judaism holds that miracles do not prove that the miracle worker is sent by God. For instance, Pharaoh's magicians duplicated Moses' staff turning into a snake, yet those magicians were not sent by God.
Yep, you just have to give the reason for the faith that is within you. You never save anyone, God does that, but He also commands you to defend the faith and give that reason.
I'd recommend you better acquaint yourself with the relevant facts needed to defend Christianity from Jewish criticism.
 

kamaeq

Active member
No, it was not. If it was you would have shown where he called someone to be a Christian.
Well, since you obviously don't read the Bible:
And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers. And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. And they straightway left their nets, and followed him. And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them. And they immediately left the ship and their father, and followed him. (Mat 4:18-22)

The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me. (Joh 1:43)

And as he passed by, he saw Levi the son of Alphaeus sitting at the receipt of custom, and said unto him, Follow me. And he arose and followed him. (Mar 2:14)

Bold emphasis added.

Six examples, six disciples called. Exactly as I said. Do you need more to correct your incorrect statement?

Again your point does show that Jews must relinquish their religion.
And? I thought that was quite clear. I got in this because most of those points require rejection of Jesus as Messiah or acceptance of Jesus as Messiah and a Jew who accepts Jesus as Messiah is a Christian. There could be some discussion of what things God commanded of the Jews that should be followed, but those fall under Romans 14 IMO.
No, you cannot. A jew is a follower of the Torah. That means they must obey all the Torah. One is not born obeying anything. one must be taught to obey. Culture can be picked up here and there. For example, wearing a skullcap does not make one a Jew.
Well, a number of people, including Jews, disagree with your rejection. Yes, that does include Jews who identify as Christian because they accept Jesus as Messiah.
Just because a cat is born in an oven does not make it bread. Even if you call him bread.
And that is total nonsense, woke progressive 1984 newspeak type nonsense.
Nobody is calling the "cat" "bread".
Instead they speak of different types of "cats", but you insist it is all about "bread" in your own little definition.
And your point is?
He was a Jew by faith, birth and culture. He would disagree with your claims.
That is rubbish Jews are followers of a religion. There is no DNA for that.
The DNA is for the fact that they are an ethnicity as well as a religion.
People are not born Jews, that is like saying one is born Catholic or Muslim or Hindu.
You obviously don't know any Jews at all, because they will tell you differently. Including secular Jews and Jews who embrace Jesus as Messiah and are now Christians.
Andrew Klavan speech
So cats born in ovens are now bread? If a baby is born in an ambulance is that baby an American emergency vehicle?
No, you are simply trying to use newspeak definitions to redefine what the meaning of is is. Or vaccine. Or recession. Or definition.
 

kamaeq

Active member
Your answer shows that being a Jew has nothing to do with ethnicity...Religious conversion is about relinquishing one to accept another thing. One cannot relinquish ethnicity.
Okay, you are now claiming that Jesus was not born a Jew? In accordance with Jewish prophecy? If Jesus is not born a Jew, the only Jew to ever keep the Law and be saved as such, then that Jesus you proclaim would not be the Jewish Messiah as Jesus stated He was. That puts an end to this thread because such a thing being true would invalidate Christianity totally other than as some made up fairy tale.

Jesus was born a Jew, of Jewish parents, in the Jewish faith and the Jewish culture.

You do realize that Jews have been identified as Jewish by birth, even if they are secular or Christian by faith? Yes, this includes Jews self-identifying.
 

kamaeq

Active member
Christ died to remove them from that law.
Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Mat 5:17-20)
No point in any emphasis here since it all contradicts what you are trying to say.

Not going to break it down, but you are quoting out of context for what you are trying to prove. Try Romans 9:30-10:4
Like I said before God did not call anyone to be a Christian. Why do you keep bringing that up?
Which shows your ignorance of the Bible. I pointed it out to you the simplest way by referencing the 12 Disciples. In another post, I showed where six (6) of them were directly called to follow Jesus (God) by Jesus (God) in the Bible.
Suggest you lose your false belief.
There is no reversing the curse. God sent Jesus to remove Israel from under the law. They killed him.
LOL, I QUOTED Bible passage where it states how the curse would be reversed.
Okay, it appears you are one of those who thinks that Christians have replaced Jews as the chosen people. Need to lose that false teaching also.
 
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