Defending Gay Christianity

There is your problem.
No, there is your problem

It is the mindless mindset that if it is not literally spelled out in scripture then it cannot be true.
It is literally spelled out in scripture. What are you trying to say?

The Pharisees searched the scripture but could not see anywhere that Yeshua was the Messiah.
Yet the scriptures speak of Him, just like the scriptures affirm man and woman in union and condemn same sex acts. You don't have a point.

What is spelled out is the Golden rule, do not do to others what you would not want done to you.
I would not want someone to lie to me that the scripture doesn't condemn same sex acts. However there is no such 'golden' rule and in context in Matt 7 and part of the sermon on the mount which also says
31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’[f] 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
gay doesnt fit in there either.
No docphin5, in John 14-17 Jesus says His believers are to obey everything He taught and commanded, as it does in Matt 28

Would you like someone else to tell you who you are allowed to spend the rest of your life with?
Jesus does, Jesus says either not marry or faithfully married to one woman, as in Gen 1 & 2

This does not answer your request for comprehensive Biblical support for gay marriage but then again, there are a lot of things the Bible is silent on.
You havent given any Biblical support for same sex relations whilst denying the ones we gave you

The bible was not meant to be rule book on any situation that could occur in life,
Depends what you mean,
but instead teaches us how to use our moral intellect (or holy spirit) to choose the good
Nope, the Holy Spirit guides believers in truth and reminds them of everything Jesus taught
25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you
 
What IS literally spelled out in Scripture is that homosexuality is a sin.
You mean when YHWH commands that they be executed right after commanding genocide, and executing adulterers, and condemning anyone who merely breaks one of his 613 commandments? Which raises the question why you dont sacrifice animals, celebrate Jewish feasts, Sabbath observance, food purity laws, which he also commanded? Let me guess the answer, you cherry pick which commandments you wish to obey, the rest you ignore. Since you are prejudiced against same sex relationships then you like what YHWH has to say about it. That is pretty much the extent of your (ir)rationality. Pathetic!
 
You mean when YHWH commands that they be executed right after commanding genocide, and executing adulterers, and condemning anyone who merely breaks one of his 613 commandments? Which raises the question why you dont sacrifice animals, celebrate Jewish feasts, Sabbath observance, food purity laws, which he also commanded? Let me guess the answer, you cherry pick which commandments you wish to obey, the rest you ignore. Since you are prejudiced against same sex relationships then you like what YHWH has to say about it. That is pretty much the extent of your (ir)rationality. Pathetic!
Because Jesus has made the sacrifice for the punishment we all deserve.
All you are saying is you think God is wrong.
Since God is prejudice against same sex relations that is what counts.
 
You mean when YHWH commands that they be executed right after commanding genocide, and executing adulterers, and condemning anyone who merely breaks one of his 613 commandments? Which raises the question why you dont sacrifice animals, celebrate Jewish feasts, Sabbath observance, food purity laws, which he also commanded? Let me guess the answer, you cherry pick which commandments you wish to obey, the rest you ignore. Since you are prejudiced against same sex relationships then you like what YHWH has to say about it. That is pretty much the extent of your (ir)rationality. Pathetic!
Learn what Jesus Christ accomplished for us, but also understand that he did not say homosexuality is no longer a sin.
 
There is your problem. It is the mindless mindset that if it is not literally spelled out in scripture then it cannot be true. The Pharisees searched the scripture but could not see anywhere that Yeshua was the Messiah.

What is spelled out is the Golden rule, do not do to others what you would not want done to you. Would you like someone else to tell you who you are allowed to spend the rest of your life with? Someone to tell you what physical attributes you are allowed to be sexually attracted to? Of course not, but that is exactly what you are doing based on a very limited number of obscure verses dealing with topics unrelated to a comprehensive analysis of sexual behavior.

One thing I know is that there will be no sexual behavior in the next world. Therefore, God did not find it worthwhile to even include it. Yet the christian orthodoxy is hung up on regulating an external, physical desire of the flesh that God has forbid to everyone in heaven. My guess is that God has his mind on more important matters, like, how we should be treating one another.

This does not answer your request for comprehensive Biblical support for gay marriage but then again, there are a lot of things the Bible is silent on. The bible was not meant to be rule book on any situation that could occur in life, but instead teaches us how to use our moral intellect (or holy spirit) to choose the good. We will not always agree but that is the fault of humans with personal bias or prejudice or partisan positions, not of the wisdom that comes from God.
Again, where is it taught that two men or two women married is holy in God’s sight. I’m getting a bunch of evasion from you. Surely if it’s holy, it’s taught in scripture. But you know this teaching is foreign to God’s holy writ.

God created Adam & Eve, not Adam and Steve.
 
Again, where is it taught that two men or two women married is holy in God’s sight. I’m getting a bunch of evasion from you. Surely if it’s holy, it’s taught in scripture. But you know this teaching is foreign to God’s holy writ.

God created Adam & Eve, not Adam and Steve.
The irony is that the Biblical creation myth is not historically true. So you are using a mythical story to justify prejudice against same sex relationships. Your position is entirely personal opinion. Did you forget where Paul wrote that marriage between male and female is a mystery representing Christ and his church? It has nothing to do with human sexuality or attraction to specific physical traits in the desired mate. Nothing!

Moreover, please reference in scripture a comprehensive analysis of human sexuality. When you do then I will show you God’s absolute will regarding same sex relationships.
 
Learn what Jesus Christ accomplished for us, but also understand that he did not say homosexuality is no longer a sin.
You guys are boring. No one presents an argument why same sex relationships are bad other than my Bible says so, (what little is there). Can anyone present an ethical reason based on evidence for denying a same sex relationship?…(crickets)….”Ethics”, what’s that?
 
The irony is that the Biblical creation myth is not historically true.
who says? Man and woman unite as one flesh to reproduce, the creation account says that, so hardly a myth.
So you are using a mythical story to justify prejudice against same sex relationships.
well as we have seen Jesus disagrees with you in Matt 19 and Mark 10.

Your position is entirely personal opinion.
the opposite is the case. Same sex relationships are excluded and condemned throughout the Bible and you have no case.

Did you forget where Paul wrote that marriage between male and female is a mystery representing Christ and his church It has nothing to do with human sexuality or attraction to specific physical traits in the desired mate. Nothing!
I didnt forget it, I told you about it. Did you forget that the image of God according to Jesus is a man and a woman in union so that is the analogy with Christ and His church. Did it not occur to you that Paul wrote about a marriage between a man and a woman, a husband and wife but never two of the same sex which he wrote us condemned?
Where did you get your idea from? The epistles refer to a man shall leave his father and mother and be united with his wife snd the two shall become one flesh Eph 5

Moreover, please reference in scripture a comprehensive analysis of human sexuality.
first you need to show us where sex acts are countenanced as you were asked by more than one of us several posts ago. Seeing as you have nond there is no debate.


When you do then I will show you God’s absolute will regarding same sex relationships.
go on then.
 
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You guys are boring. No one presents an argument why same sex relationships are bad other than my Bible says so, (what little is there).
what does your bible say?

Can anyone present an ethical reason based on evidence for denying a same sex relationship?…(crickets)….”Ethics”, what’s that?
we have done.
No such thing as "gay" to God. Same sex acts are sin and detestable to God.
Jesus is the truth.
 
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The irony is that the Biblical creation myth is not historically true. So you are using a mythical story to justify prejudice against same sex relationships. Your position is entirely personal opinion. Did you forget where Paul wrote that marriage between male and female is a mystery representing Christ and his church? It has nothing to do with human sexuality or attraction to specific physical traits in the desired mate. Nothing!

Moreover, please reference in scripture a comprehensive analysis of human sexuality. When you do then I will show you God’s absolute will regarding same sex relationships.


“The irony is that the Biblical creation myth is not historically true.”

So, what exactly is a myth in the creation story found in the Bible?
 
anyone who merely breaks one of his 613 commandments?

"Merely"?!

You clearly don't care about God.

Which raises the question why you dont sacrifice animals,

Because we have the sacrifice of Christ.
You may want to read Hebrews. It might open your eyes.

celebrate Jewish feasts, Sabbath observance,

Maybe because we're not Jewish?
Why don't you celebrate "Memorial Day of the 1848 Revolution"?
Is it perhaps because you're not Hungarian?

food purity laws, which he also commanded?

Mark 7:18 And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, 19 since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.)

Since you are prejudiced against same sex relationships then you like what YHWH has to say about it.

If you want to call, YHWH, "prejudiced", that's your problem.
 
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You guys are boring. No one presents an argument why same sex relationships are bad other than my Bible says so, (what little is there). Can anyone present an ethical reason based on evidence for denying a same sex relationship?…(crickets)….”Ethics”, what’s that?

You mean other than:
  • the sphincter is not designed to accept a phallus;
  • same sex relationships are unable to produce children, requiring the adherents to steal children from others;
  • same-sex relationships do not model the complementary relationship between man and woman that God designed;
  • homosexual sex results in an increase in disease;
  • homosexual sex relationships result in a roughly 20-year decrease in lifespan;
 
Very shallow and weak arguments indeed.
Given that "homosexuality" is a "Normal human appetite for some" (like HATE, LUST, Murder, illicit Sex, etc.), it's in and of itself, not a SIN - only a personal LUST.

James 1 teaches that "temptation" is the result of one's OWN LUST, and that (since satan, and his folks know EXACTLY which buttons to push) there will be "enticement" until that LUST CONCEIVES, and births "sinful activity" which is were SIN starts.

The same principal applies to Eve, Jesus, you, and me. Sometimes we don't let it conceive, and sometimes (as Eve did) we allow it to conceive, and become SIN.

In Jesus' case, however, He had all those same "Lusts" as we do (Being a fully functional HUMAN during His earthly walk, and being tempted in every respect AS WE ARE). But Jesus NEVER, in the face of enticement, allowed any of HIS lusts to conceive, and give birth to SINFUL ACTIONS, thus remaining sinless as He HAD TO DO in order to be an acceptable sacrifice for SIN.

The defense mechanism Jesus demonstrates (in the wilderness after John's baptism) is answering the Enticement (from satan) with God's WORD.

"Over libidinousness", for example, is common, and entirely natural in humans. But if a person marries ONE woman, and they remain monogamously faithful "until death", then the INTERNAL LUSTS have been unsuccessful in causing Adultery. Harold Ockengae once said that: "You CAN'T keep the birds from flying overhead, but you CAN prevent them from building a nest in your hair".

A CELIBATE Homosexual isn't committing SIN because of their internal homosexual pressures - Homosexuality only becomes SIN when it produces SINFUL ACTIVITIES. But it's not a "SUPER SIN" - it's just "another sin" like any other.

SO a Born again Christian homosexual is completely possible, and they (like us) have an advocate, when they confess their SIN - just like us, AND they have the internally dwelling Holy Spirit who will bring about change in their lives, just like HE does in us (ROm 8:28,29).

The PROBLEM, of course, is that Theologians can, and DO "PROVE" to their satisfaction, that Homosexual ACTIVITY isn't sinful", and teach others their heresy. After all, theologians properly educated, and skilled in the art can and do "prove" all sorts of things that have no Biblical support, or are expressly forbidden Scripturally. Paul warned of this, since the Church was already starting to denominationalize (I am of Paul - I am of Apollos - etc.) even while he was ministering.
 
Given that "homosexuality" is a "Normal human appetite for some" (like HATE, LUST, Murder, illicit Sex, etc.), it's in and of itself, not a SIN - only a personal LUST.

James 1 teaches that "temptation" is the result of one's OWN LUST, and that (since satan, and his folks know EXACTLY which buttons to push) there will be "enticement" until that LUST CONCEIVES, and births "sinful activity" which is were SIN starts.

The same principal applies to Eve, Jesus, you, and me. Sometimes we don't let it conceive, and sometimes (as Eve did) we allow it to conceive, and become SIN.

In Jesus' case, however, He had all those same "Lusts" as we do (Being a fully functional HUMAN during His earthly walk, and being tempted in every respect AS WE ARE). But Jesus NEVER, in the face of enticement, allowed any of HIS lusts to conceive, and give birth to SINFUL ACTIONS, thus remaining sinless as He HAD TO DO in order to be an acceptable sacrifice for SIN.

The defense mechanism Jesus demonstrates (in the wilderness after John's baptism) is answering the Enticement (from satan) with God's WORD.

"Over libidinousness", for example, is common, and entirely natural in humans. But if a person marries ONE woman, and they remain monogamously faithful "until death", then the INTERNAL LUSTS have been unsuccessful in causing Adultery. Harold Ockengae once said that: "You CAN'T keep the birds from flying overhead, but you CAN prevent them from building a nest in your hair".
Apply logic to what you are saying and I could make the argument for gay marriage. For, if “over libidnousness” is “entirely natural in humans” as you say, and marriage is the preventative to adultery, as you also claim, THEN allowing gays to marry would be the preventative for them to commit adultery too.

Why cannot you see that? What you offer as a vaccine to adultery for some humans, would be disallowed to other humans, thereby, condemning them to a life of seedy bar hookups, hiding in the shadows, being despised by society for trying to live with what you claim is “entirely natural in humans”.

In that light, it is imperative that the church recognize gay marriage if only to promote life long sexual unions between two same-sex people. Logic demands it.

A CELIBATE Homosexual isn't committing SIN because of their internal homosexual pressures - Homosexuality only becomes SIN when it produces SINFUL ACTIVITIES. But it's not a "SUPER SIN" - it's just "another sin" like any other.

SO a Born again Christian homosexual is completely possible, and they (like us) have an advocate, when they confess their SIN - just like us, AND they have the internally dwelling Holy Spirit who will bring about change in their lives, just like HE does in us (ROm 8:28,29).

The PROBLEM, of course, is that Theologians can, and DO "PROVE" to their satisfaction, that Homosexual ACTIVITY isn't sinful", and teach others their heresy. After all, theologians properly educated, and skilled in the art can and do "prove" all sorts of things that have no Biblical support, or are expressly forbidden Scripturally. Paul warned of this, since the Church was already starting to denominationalize (I am of Paul - I am of Apollos - etc.) even while he was ministering.
You earlier admitted that “over libidinous” is common to all, yet you would deny homosexuals the same prevention to adultery offered to hetero-sexuals, ie., marriage. Instead, you would condemn them to casual hook-ups by not granting them marriage. Your logic makes no sense. Theology, in this case is just eisegesis, reading into the Bible one’s own personal prejudice. Right reason and Wisdom alone dictates that gay marriage should not only be allowed but encouraged to prevent adultery between same sex mates.
 
Instead, you would condemn them to casual hook-ups by not granting them marriage.
not when we follow God's purposes..You are blaming people for seeking to follow Jesus teaching


Theology, in this case is just eisegesis, reading into the Bible one’s own personal prejudice.
is what you are doing. The Bible says what it says and it affims only ever man and woman relations and only ever condenns same sex ones. The eisegesis and personal prejudice is all yours.. You cant come up with any scripture to support your position
 
Jordan Peterson defended the christian position against gay marriage by not quoting scripture but by stating their intention means well, even if misguided. I think if you search your motivations for being against gay marriage, deep down subconsciously you think you are defending the family unit. And that is a worthy goal that I fully support. Laws should be written to uphold and support the family unit. It is arguably the foundation upon which civilized nations are built.

So how did gay sex get lumped in with threats to the family unit?

Probably when the sixties and the sexual revolution came into popular acceptance gay sex got lumped in with other immoral behaviors perceived as threats to the family unit. and it stuck. Therefore, IMO the christian position is based on their desire to protect the family unit, and same-sex individuals are just discarded to the side to simplify the solution. Christians justify their position by reading into the Bible what it never says. There is no comprehensive treatise in the Bible that condemns in absolute terms a life-long committed union between two same-sex individuals.

I recommend to uphold the family unit through life long sexual unions, ie., marriage, for any sexual union. Moreover, the church should continue to condemn any sexual unions that do not protect children from being abandoned by either their father or mother. In that way, we can tease out what is good for society without throwing same sex individuals to the curb.
 
not when we follow God's purposes..You are blaming people for seeking to follow Jesus teaching


is what you are doing. The Bible says what it says and it affims only ever man and woman relations and only ever condenns same sex ones. The eisegesis and personal prejudice is all yours.. You cant come up with any scripture to support your position
Show me in the Bible a comprehensive analysis of human sexual behavior and I will show you God approves of life-long sexual unions. Marriage is always about giving an outlet for natural sexual urges in a way that protects children from harm. Marriage is not an absolute right of christians only.
 
Apply logic to what you are saying and I could make the argument for gay marriage. For, if “over libidnousness” is “entirely natural in humans” as you say, and marriage is the preventative to adultery, as you also claim, THEN allowing gays to marry would be the preventative for them to commit adultery too.

Why cannot you see that?
Why can't you see that the Bible says that practicing homosexuality is a sin?

What you offer as a vaccine to adultery for some humans, would be disallowed to other humans, thereby, condemning them to a life of seedy bar hookups, hiding in the shadows, being despised by society for trying to live with what you claim is “entirely natural in humans”.

In that light, it is imperative that the church recognize gay marriage if only to promote life long sexual unions between two same-sex people. Logic demands it.

You earlier admitted that “over libidinous” is common to all, yet you would deny homosexuals the same prevention to adultery offered to hetero-sexuals, ie., marriage. Instead, you would condemn them to casual hook-ups by not granting them marriage. Your logic makes no sense. Theology, in this case is just eisegesis, reading into the Bible one’s own personal prejudice. Right reason and Wisdom alone dictates that gay marriage should not only be allowed but encouraged to prevent adultery between same sex mates.
The Bible is clear that practicing homosexuality is a sin.
 
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