Defending Gay Christianity

I already refuted your bigotry in post #83. What is left is to associate you with those failed supremacist ideologies in the past that were discarded to the dustbin of history just as yours will be.
Romans says you have become foolish and your heart is darkened
 
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When all logic, evidence, and reason fails, just blame it on Satan, cause that always wins the argument. All you have left to do now is grab the pitchfork and run me through. Du***@#.
Oh. I see we have a keyboard tough guy. Shows you have lost the debate. You have been given all that you claimed 'fails. The more you write, the more your ignorance of God's Word shines. Further proof you are blinded by satan.
 
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This is not what you think its saying. He is talking about fallen angels giving up their divine nature and becoming humans. It is based on the Genesis 6 myth about fallen angels, aka, the Watchers, having subsumed human nature. Their downfall led to the evils before the great flood. So he is making the point that spirits absent a divine nature have an unseemly lust.

You guys really need to expand your reading materials because you are all in an echo chamber repeating the same misinformation. The clementine homilies has the same exact description about the cause of evil but it is explicitly about fallen angels.


Nothing about homosexuality. It is about avoiding fornication by being married. IOW, satisfy your lusts within the guidelines of a monogamous relationship. It prevents STDS and unwanted pregnancies. Logically, the same advice could be given to homosexuals. Get married and avoid contracting an STD. Adopt a child maybe and provide care for them. I mean there can be good produced from gay marriage just like in heterosexual marriage. That is the moral code of Christians: do no harm!
You are apparently woefully blind to what the scriptures say. You attempt to justify the sin when scripture condemns the sin. Those practicing homosexuality--civilly "married" or not-- are in the same boat as heterosexuals committing adultery or fornication as part of a lifestyle.

The pastor of my former church dealt with such an issue. a man and a woman committed adultery. They were cheating on their respective spouses. They divorced and married each other. After a service, they came up to the pastor and announced they had gotten married. The pastor told them in no uncertain terms they needed to repent and to take their sin and leave. Not much different than Paul telling the Corinthian church to boot the guy sleeping with his father's wife. Sin is sin and a church condoning such sin is in trouble. My pastor did the right thing for the right reason.
 
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I already refuted your bigotry in post #83. What is left is to associate you with those failed supremacist ideologies in the past that were discarded to the dustbin of history just as yours will be.
You and the rest of the LGBTQ+++ community expect God's written word to change and to be subservient to the culture. It is the other way around. Society and the world at large needs to be changed by the written word of God from the Author who is unchanging. God's word means what it says and says what it means.
 
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I already refuted your bigotry in post #83. What is left is to associate you with those failed supremacist ideologies in the past that were discarded to the dustbin of history just as yours will be.
So in your lgbt religion is God love? It only says 'God is love' once in the Bible. The point is the whole of the Bible is ultimately about God's love but one has to know what that love entails.
Since God is the judge why would we be interested in your human supremacist ideology and even it going to the dustbin of human history? JESUS IS LORD.

There is no such concept of 'gay' marriage to God.
 
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You are apparently woefully blind to what the scriptures say.
The last time someone tried to present scripture in support of your position, I refuted it. See post #83.

All you have is personal opinions of what a few, tiny verses of scripture means and anecdotal stories about what pastor Bob said about adultery (which has nothing to do with same-sex marriage). Therefore, your position is largely based on personal prejudice.

Since scripture has failed to support your opinion, then how about you present an argument from ethics to deny same-sex unions in a life long commitment. Do you know what ethics is? Does any so-called christian know how to present an argument from ethics? Apparently not.

You attempt to justify the sin when scripture condemns the sin. Those practicing homosexuality--civilly "married" or not-- are in the same boat as heterosexuals committing adultery or fornication as part of a lifestyle.

The pastor of my former church dealt with such an issue. a man and a woman committed adultery. They were cheating on their respective spouses. They divorced and married each other. After a service, they came up to the pastor and announced they had gotten married. The pastor told them in no uncertain terms they needed to repent and to take their sin and leave. Not much different than Paul telling the Corinthian church to boot the guy sleeping with his father's wife. Sin is sin and a church condoning such sin is in trouble. My pastor did the right thing for the right reason.
 
The last time someone tried to present scripture in support of your position, I refuted it. See post #83.

All you have is personal opinions of what a few, tiny verses of scripture means and anecdotal stories about what pastor Bob said about adultery (which has nothing to do with same-sex marriage). Therefore, your position is largely based on personal prejudice.

Since scripture has failed to support your opinion, then how about you present an argument from ethics to deny same-sex unions in a life long commitment. Do you know what ethics is? Does any so-called christian know how to present an argument from ethics? Apparently not.
Youm refuted nothing. You obviously didn't understand the verses you thought you were refuting, especially Romans and Corinthians. Romans chapter 1 had absolutely nothing to do with fallen angels. You certainly didn't understand the context you were attempting to refute. Leviticus is from the Mosaic Law, yes, but the principle is the same. The 10 commandments were from the Mosaic Law also, yet it is also the moral guide we still use. God's word is consistent in both the Old Testament and New. How can you base an argument on "ethics" when you don't have a standard by which to measure? societal opinions change like the wind therefore your "ethics" will also change. God's Word does not change.

You obviously missed the point about adultery I made. That is a sin lumped together with practicing homosexuality and other sins. Habitual lifestyle. An attempt in that story I shared to illustrate a Bible-believing pastor made no distinction in the sins of practicing homosexuality and adultery. Both were equally wrong. He dealt with the issue. Biblically. As did Paul with the Corinthian church. Scripture refutes your baseless argument.

1 Cor 6:9-10
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
ESV


You don't like what scripture says so you must change it. That's what happened with the Queen James Bible. Wholesale changes to fit the gay lifestyle. No reputable translation follows that garbage.

My opinion is not based upon personal prejudice. It is based on the written word of God. God says what He means and means what He says.

Time to repent.
 
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Matthew 19 is dealing with the topic of divorce, not homosexuality. The point being marriage is intended by God to be for life. There is nothing in there about preventing two humans of the same sex forming a sexual union for life. Based on context of Matthew 19 we should presume two gay people would also be expected to remain married for life.
Your presumptions on Matthew 19 are very wrong. Jesus was speaking about divorce He also said it was between a man and a woman, not a man and a man or a woman and a woman. You best go back and read that passage and see what Jesus said. He referred to God's establishment of marriage between a man and a woman. Only.
 
The last time someone tried to present scripture in support of your position, I refuted it. See post #83.
Post #83 doesnt refute it, or anything.
We dont follow the Mosaic law, we follow Christ's fulfillment of it. Hence we follow the creation purpose of God's image being a man and a woman to be united.
If you want to think its pick and choose Mosaic law then you dont do Lev 19:18 ' love your neighnour as yoursefl' .

All you have is personal opinions of what a few, tiny verses of scripture means and anecdotal stories about what pastor Bob said about adultery (which has nothing to do with same-sex marriage). Therefore, your position is largely based on personal prejudice.
your position is based on pejudice because you havent even got any scriptute to support you position. Its all just your personal opinion.


Since scripture has failed to support your opinion, then how about you present an argument from ethics to deny same-sex unions in a life long commitment. Do you know what ethics is? Does any so-called christian know how to present an argument from ethics? Apparently not.
Scripture is clear and you have nothing.
 
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Youm refuted nothing. You obviously didn't understand the verses you thought you were refuting, especially Romans and Corinthians. Romans chapter 1 had absolutely nothing to do with fallen angels.
It has everything to do with fallen angels. The original Jewish-Christians attributed sin, suffering, and death to fallen angels, not to homosexuals. Not even to humans in general. They all perceived that a fallen angel ruled over the material world and created humans to rule over. Deceiving humans, making them ignorant of the true God. Which supports the whole purpose of the letter to the Romans, ie., to repudiate the particularism of Judaism and demonsteate that all humans on earth are in the same boat.

You certainly didn't understand the context you were attempting to refute. Leviticus is from the Mosaic Law, yes, but the principle is the same. The 10 commandments were from the Mosaic Law also, yet it is also the moral guide we still use.
If you use the Mosaic Law to become rightoeus then Christ is of no use to you. Paul taught that. The fact you reject Paul’s teaching shows you are clueless.

God's word is consistent in both the Old Testament and New.
Lol. You are clueless. When is the last time you stoned an adulterer? That is the law according to YHWH.

How can you base an argument on "ethics" when you don't have a standard by which to measure?
So you cannot support your position from an ethical argument. No surprise.

societal opinions change like the wind therefore your "ethics" will also change. God's Word does not change.
Clueless. If God’s word has not changed then why do rabbinical Jews have a different interpretation? Why is there 1,800 different sects of Christianity? Because people like you read into the scriptures whatever prejudice or bigotry you hold.

You obviously missed the point about adultery I made. That is a sin lumped together with practicing homosexuality and other sins.
No, it is not. Adultery is not the same as two same-sex individuals committed to each other for life, just as adultery is not the same as two hetero-sexuals remaining faithful to each other. The fact that you do not get this disqualifies you as an objective person. You are merely imposing your personal bias into the topic, albeit in the name of God, as if that justifies it.

Habitual lifestyle. An attempt in that story I shared to illustrate a Bible-believing pastor made no distinction in the sins of practicing homosexuality and adultery. Both were equally wrong. He dealt with the issue. Biblically. As did Paul with the Corinthian church. Scripture refutes your baseless argument.
Clueless and blinded by bigotry.

1 Cor 6:9-10
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
ESV
Homosexuality can be abused just as heterosexuality can be abused. I stated earlier that it was common knowledge for rich, Roman elites to OWN young boy slaves for sexual services. That is what Paul had in mind when condemning homosexual behavior just as he condemned hetero-sexual behavior. Paul was not condemning two same-Sex partners committed to each other for life, just as he did not condemn two hetero-sexual partners committed for life. You have interpreted what you want to find in scripture based on your bias and prejudice.

You don't like what scripture says so you must change it. That's what happened with the Queen James Bible. Wholesale changes to fit the gay lifestyle. No reputable translation follows that garbage.
If there were a comprehensive treatise in scripture on the topic of human sexuality then the discussion would be more informed. But as it is, there is a paucity of verses in glancing reference to the topic, arguably involving figurative, mythical stories about fallen angels as the cause of sin, suffering, and death in the world. Orthodoxy has decided to build a dogma on it and discriminate against all same-sex couples in the world. Shame!

My opinion is not based upon personal prejudice. It is based on the written word of God. God says what He means and means what He says.
People like you have enslaved black people, and murdered Jews, and other denominations of christians all in the name of God and what they think the Bible says. I am over people like you.

Time to repent.
Same to you.
 
It has everything to do with fallen angels. The original Jewish-Christians attributed sin, suffering, and death to fallen angels, not to homosexuals. Not even to humans in general. They all perceived that a fallen angel ruled over the material world and created humans to rule over. Deceiving humans, making them ignorant of the true God. Which supports the whole purpose of the letter to the Romans, ie., to repudiate the particularism of Judaism and demonsteate that all humans on earth are in the same boat.


If you use the Mosaic Law to become rightoeus then Christ is of no use to you. Paul taught that. The fact you reject Paul’s teaching shows you are clueless.


Lol. You are clueless. When is the last time you stoned an adulterer? That is the law according to YHWH.


So you cannot support your position from an ethical argument. No surprise.


Clueless. If God’s word has not changed then why do rabbinical Jews have a different interpretation? Why is there 1,800 different sects of Christianity? Because people like you read into the scriptures whatever prejudice or bigotry you hold.


No, it is not. Adultery is not the same as two same-sex individuals committed to each other for life, just as adultery is not the same as two hetero-sexuals remaining faithful to each other. The fact that you do not get this disqualifies you as an objective person. You are merely imposing your personal bias into the topic, albeit in the name of God, as if that justifies it.


Clueless and blinded by bigotry.


Homosexuality can be abused just as heterosexuality can be abused. I stated earlier that it was common knowledge for rich, Roman elites to OWN young boy slaves for sexual services. That is what Paul had in mind when condemning homosexual behavior just as he condemned hetero-sexual behavior. Paul was not condemning two same-Sex partners committed to each other for life, just as he did not condemn two hetero-sexual partners committed for life. You have interpreted what you want to find in scripture based on your bias and prejudice.


If there were a comprehensive treatise in scripture on the topic of human sexuality then the discussion would be more informed. But as it is, there is a paucity of verses in glancing reference to the topic, arguably involving figurative, mythical stories about fallen angels as the cause of sin, suffering, and death in the world. Orthodoxy has decided to build a dogma on it and discriminate against all same-sex couples in the world. Shame!


People like you have enslaved black people, and murdered Jews, and other denominations of christians all in the name of God and what they think the Bible says. I am over people like you.


Same to you.
You haven't given any scriptural basis for your position. we have. It makes no difference what the rabbinical Jews have to say. Look what Paul wrote in context. It is really pretty easy. You just don't want to accept it. It was nothing about fallen angels. You are just diverting from what the text says.

Looking at your responses to the other sections of my post show you simply do not want to understand what the scriptures say. You have no clue to what Paul had in mind but we do know what he wrote and what he wrote in no way agrees with your pathetic position as you attempt to twist the scriptures. You can live the lifestyle you want whenever you want but don't expect that non-Biblical lifestyle to be accepted as something God accepts.

You will continue to see main-line churches and other Christian denominations continue to water down their doctrine and embrace this non-Biblical garbage. It has been foretold. Just don't expect born-again Christians who believe what the Word of God actually says to follow suit. God's written word says what it means and means what it says.

Your position in completely bankrupt and deserves no further discussion.
 
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It has everything to do with fallen angels. The original Jewish-Christians attributed sin, suffering, and death to fallen angels, not to homosexuals.
nothing to do with angels. Leviticus 18 and 20 refer to mankind not angels, Genesis 19 refers to men and angels. Romans 1 and Lev 18/20 clearly state a man and woman

If you use the Mosaic Law to become rightoeus then Christ is of no use to you.
We arent. I explained that to you

No, it is not.
Yes it is
two same-sex individuals committed to each other for life,
no such countenance in the Bible, and cant be so as same sex acts are condemned
People like you have enslaved black people, and murdered Jews,
no evidence for your hatred
 
nothing to do with angels. Leviticus 18 and 20 refer to mankind not angels, Genesis 19 refers to men and angels. Romans 1 and Lev 18/20 clearly state a man and woman

We arent. I explained that to you

Yes it is
no such countenance in the Bible, and cant be so as same sex acts are condemned
no evidence for your hatred
We are accused of hatred because we simply do not agree with the unbiblical position. I haven't seen a single post here saying we hate LBGTQ+++ folks. We even say they can practice it. We don't advocate hunting down those who practice the lifestyle. We don't shun them from our businesses. We don't-- or shouldn't- shun them from our families. We don't in mine. However, we also say we don't accept that lifestyle as biblical or Christian. So where is this "hatred"? It is a fall back retort when there is no other answer.
 
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We are accused of hatred because we simply do not agree with the unbiblical position. I haven't seen a single post here saying we hate LBGTQ+++ folks. We even say they can practice it. We don't advocate hunting down those who practice the lifestyle. We don't shun them from our businesses. We don't-- or shouldn't- shun them from our families. We don't in mine. However, we also say we don't accept that lifestyle as biblical or Christian. So where is this "hatred"? It is a fall back retort when there is no other answer.
The tactic is to argue and deceive people and if that doesn't work, to accuse. But we should stand up to it

Blessings
 
So we've had the "Metropolitan Community Church" (a "gay" church") for awhile now. And unfortunately, other "mainstream" denominations are becoming "PRIDE-friendly" (I'm not saying "unfortunately" because I dislike any individuals, but only because eternal doctrine cannot be changed by culture).

Back in the day, there was a teenager from a Christian family, "Matthew Vines", who came out as gay, and after "studying" the Bible concluded that Jesus was "A-OK" with it. He gave a lengthy testimony, to which James White responded to in podcasts lasting over 5 hours.

While Matthew is still doing gay apologetics, a newer TikTok personality who considers himself a "gay pastor", Brandan Robertson is becoming more popular, and is being interviewed by the likes of Trent Horn.

I recently listened to a Dividing Line of James White responding to one of Brandan's sermons (I think it was), and it was very revealing....

1) One of the big things is that they refer to the 6 clearest passages teaching against homosexual behaviour as "the clobber passages". This is a label designed to stigmatize and disarm the passages without having to actually deal with them. Apparently if you apply a derogatory label to some passages, those passages magically go away. We can only hope that JW's don't learn about the term, "clobber passages" to refer to the "Jesus is God" passages, or Mormons learn and apply the term to the "only one God" passages.

2) Since 3 of the 6 passages come from the hand of Paul, they need a way to demonize Paul. And they've developed a number of such ways. Brandan points out that Paul refers to the gospel as "my gospel", and claims that Paul's gospel is a different gospel than Jesus. And when you pit Jesus against Paul, then Jesus must win, and Paul loses out, right? So it must not matter what Paul wrote.

3) Brandan comments about how Paul's disagreements with Peter were frequent and vitriolic (or words to that effect). Funny, I only remember only one disagreement between them, and in that one case, Paul was in the right. But if Paul is frequently at odds with Peter, and Peter was in Jesus' inner circle, and knew him well, then Paul must be ultimately going against Jesus, and therefore Paul must be wrong.

4) Brandan also "points out" (although he is wrong) that Paul wrote against James. There is no evidence of this, of course, but he is likely referring to the common tactic of pitting Rom. 4 against James 2. But there is no conflict between them, when properly understood. White refers to a whole chapter he wrote on this issue in "The God Who Justifies" (which I highly recommend). But of course, James was with Peter and John in Jesus' inner circle, and must have known Jesus better than Paul did, and therefore Paul must be wrong, and we can ignore his writings. Brandan also claimed James grew up with Jesus, being his brother, indicating that he was confusing the son of Zebedee with Christ's brother.

Very shallow and weak arguments indeed.
Revelation teaches a fornicators place is in the place of fire and brimstone that's a man and woman having sex out of marriage. Thus gay sex is unacceptable all the way. 1 Cor 6:9-11 assures fornicators, adulterers, men who lie with men will NOT inherit Gods kingdom. It starts out in verse 9-Do not be mislead, thus any religion teaching the opposite or accepting the opposite does NOT belong to Jesus -RUN FROM THEM.
 
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The Old testament commands homosexuals be stoned. So am I to assume that is what you would do if given the opportunity? ….merely to fulfill the old testament law?

This is really quite the strawman. The OT says that adulterers should be stoned, and the NT standard is not to stone them, but adultery is still a sin under the NT.

Just because nobody is calling to stone homosexuals under the NT does not mean that the standard has changed. Homosexuality is still a sinful deviance from God's standard.
 
This is really quite the strawman. The OT says that adulterers should be stoned, and the NT standard is not to stone them, but adultery is still a sin under the NT.

Just because nobody is calling to stone homosexuals under the NT does not mean that the standard has changed. Homosexuality is still a sinful deviance from God's standard.
Adultery is not homosexuality so your analogy is a strawman.

Homosexuality is attraction to the same physical sex, whereas, heterosexuality is attraction to the opposite sex.

The sin is NOT the attraction but irresponsible sexual behaviors, whether it be between heterosexuals or homosexuals. Therefore, life long sexual commitments between two people physically attracted to each other, whether hetero- or homo-sexuals is acceptable, is preferrable for civilization to exist rather than humans acting like beasts in the field breeding like monkeys.

Really, you guys are so bound by your indoctrination that you no longer know what is real anymore. You guys need to stop reading your Bible and start thinking because the Bible does not seem to be helping you.
 
Adultery is not homosexuality so your analogy is a strawman.

Homosexuality is attraction to the same physical sex, whereas, heterosexuality is attraction to the opposite sex.

The sin is NOT the attraction but irresponsible sexual behaviors, whether it be between heterosexuals or homosexuals. Therefore, life long sexual commitments between two people physically attracted to each other, whether hetero- or homo-sexuals is acceptable, is preferrable for civilization to exist rather than humans acting like beasts in the field breeding like monkeys.

Really, you guys are so bound by your indoctrination that you no longer know what is real anymore. You guys need to stop reading your Bible and start thinking because the Bible does not seem to be helping you.
The Bible is clear on the issue. You just want us to ignore it and bend to the culture that says otherwise. And... scripture lumps adultery, fornication and practicing homosexual behavior in the same boat-- sin. No amount of sugar-coating by you changes that fact.

1 Cor 6:9-10 (NKJV)
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Those practicing homosexual behavior are not being singled out are they? They are lumped together with others practicing sexual sin as well as non-sexual sins. So the question is whether you actually believe God's written word or believe the lie of the culture. Which is it?
 
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