Desired Experience for a Wallflower?

[Lottan]

Wager I would, many, holding a bag of pearls wishing to share with the world, have lamented upon threads, found upon this board, which have devolved into your “in-laws” holiday banquet, typical in nature, of swine trampling underfoot the afore mentioned pearls you wished to share.

Often, likely sure of this I am, you have taken requisite time for crafting a carefully composed OP or response in hopes of promoting an environment suitable for realizing an equitable and meaningful exchange of ideas; hoping to reap of treasures new and old or for another to learn from your wisdom with thy targeted audience being likely lurkers and wallowers. Yet within minutes, an endless eternity of time for the respondent to no doubt fully digest and ruminate upon your carefully crafted composition, a reply from said participating cyber entity with a keyboard comes thundering through with, after you have fully given rightful thoughtful consideration, a pre-canned response reeking of thrice regurgitated dog vomit posted manyatime above in the multi-hundred replies of the thread; or from a theological church bulletin collected the previous Sunday (or Sabbath for those Sabbatarians); or the talking points of their denominations belief system: or worse yet, the same baseless statement presented as facts having no supporting evidence along with the assumption, and at times outright claim, it is the readers’ job to “Google it”; this wallflower has even seen such a post ended with the statement, “We have all the facts on our side! It’s not my job to do your homework.” after having been asked for supporting evidence.

Furthermore, too often it happens, appears a post does which provokes thought from an angle not yet explored yet a collective hive mind of thundering bullhorns captivates the participants and the post is ignored and cast into the oblivion of apologetics Doctrinal ipecac.

Peradventure then a wallflower, generally speaking such as this, comes upon such a thread in search of wisdom and understanding: what experience is desirable for wallflowers, aka lurkers, to have and what expectations should such have when attempting to gleam wisdom from a thread full of piets standing behind a multitude of pulpits adorned with outlandish bullhorns shouting ever louder at each other neigh-obscenities, to only mention the polite ones, at volumes well past eleven?

Additionally, What advise would you have for wallflowers when reading these threads?

 

[Lottan]

While expected is a level of wrestling over the “truth” and undoubtedly some snark and sarcasm made, lament I do of name calling and scorn.

 

[Gary Mac]

While expected is a level of wrestling over the “truth” and undoubtedly some snark and sarcasm made, lament I do of name calling and scorn.

Truth is adverse as many people on this planet. One will say this is the truth, the next guy says no your wrong this is the truth, the next guy says your both wrong this is the truth.

A religious mind come to me with the demand that I believe this and that in their truths.
A Spiritual mind come to me with the demand that I square my life with the standards of Jesus Christ.

Truths? Hitler said he had the truth, Jim Jones and David Koresh said they had the truth. Billy Graham said he had the truth, Baptists, Methodists, Catholic, Muslims, COCs, AOGs, you name it all have their own truths.

I suppose what I am trying to convey is to try all these spirits and compare are they like Jesus was, if not then they do not follow his truths to walk as He walks in His same light to be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect at all and make their own laws to govern their own beliefs, truths. .

 

[SteveB]

Wager I would, many, holding a bag of pearls wishing to share with the world, have lamented upon threads, found upon this board, which have devolved into your “in-laws” holiday banquet, typical in nature, of swine trampling underfoot the afore mentioned pearls you wished to share.

Often, likely sure of this I am, you have taken requisite time for crafting a carefully composed OP or response in hopes of promoting an environment suitable for realizing an equitable and meaningful exchange of ideas; hoping to reap of treasures new and old or for another to learn from your wisdom with thy targeted audience being likely lurkers and wallowers. Yet within minutes, an endless eternity of time for the respondent to no doubt fully digest and ruminate upon your carefully crafted composition, a reply from said participating cyber entity with a keyboard comes thundering through with, after you have fully given rightful thoughtful consideration, a pre-canned response reeking of thrice regurgitated dog vomit posted manyatime above in the multi-hundred replies of the thread; or from a theological church bulletin collected the previous Sunday (or Sabbath for those Sabbatarians); or the talking points of their denominations belief system: or worse yet, the same baseless statement presented as facts having no supporting evidence along with the assumption, and at times outright claim, it is the readers’ job to “Google it”; this wallflower has even seen such a post ended with the statement, “We have all the facts on our side! It’s not my job to do your homework.” after having been asked for supporting evidence.

Furthermore, too often it happens, appears a post does which provokes thought from an angle not yet explored yet a collective hive mind of thundering bullhorns captivates the participants and the post is ignored and cast into the oblivion of apologetics Doctrinal ipecac.

Peradventure then a wallflower, generally speaking such as this, comes upon such a thread in search of wisdom and understanding: what experience is desirable for wallflowers, aka lurkers, to have and what expectations should such have when attempting to gleam wisdom from a thread full of piets standing behind a multitude of pulpits adorned with outlandish bullhorns shouting ever louder at each other neigh-obscenities, to only mention the polite ones, at volumes well past eleven?

Additionally, What advise would you have for wallflowers when reading these threads?

Hi. Welcome to the forum.
Let's see......
1- guard your heart with all diligence, for out of it proceeds the issues of life.
2- seek God with a whole heart. Daily.
3- in seeking God with a whole heart, read the bible..... make it a daily habit. Become acquainted with it, in as intimate terms as possible. learn to make use of the tools, and resources available for study, and application (www.blb.org) for talking to those "family members in the holiday banquet" forums.
4- In seeking God, pray..... regularly. About everything. The more you talk to him, praise him, give thanks, even when giving thanks seems to be the very last thing you'd want to do..... give thanks! Along this line, please read 2 Chronicles 20. Jehoshaphat learned a powerful lesson in the middle of praise.
5- don't argue. Present you case, using God's Word, and let them deal with it. Discussion is one thing...... arguing is nothing more than beating a horse that died a long, long time ago, but people who think arguing is a good thing, actually believe the reaction of the dead horse to being beaten is life in the horse. The horse is dead. Only God can raise the dead. And that's what the gospel is for--- to raise the dead.
6- focus on the gospel. There are a lot of topics that people will seek to drag you into. Pay attention. Choose wisely what you discuss.
7- take a break from time to time. You don't always have to be in debates. they can make you weary. And in weariness is where the wrong kinds of mistakes are made.

Beyond that....
This is not about you. They'll seek to make it about you--- this is about Jesus, and what Jesus can do for them.
Don't focus on doctrinal arguments. the doctrines of the faith are what they are. Discussing is one thing. It helps gain a better understanding of them. but arguing...... you're beating a dead horse.
A few years ago a guy came to the atheist forum, claiming to be a former follower of Jesus. When probed more concisely, he said he'd started out debating people about calvinism/arminianism. It would appear that his entire faith was built, not on Jesus, but his ability to successfully convince others he was right about calvinism. DON'T DO THAT!
His ultimate failure resulted in him leaving faith, and becoming an atheist.

We are not here to win. According to the gospel, Jesus already won. God raised him from the dead. We win, not because of our oratory skills, but because we believe God's word, regarding Jesus, his death, and resurrection.

You'll likely be brutalized far beyond what you experience at family gatherings over the holidays.
Don't go lick your wounds..... take those wounds to Jesus. Talk to him about it in prayer.
Remember what Paul said in Philippians 3--- he seeks to experience the power of the resurrection, but in doing so, he understands he must share in the fellowship of his suffering.
Then, in 1 Cor. 1, know that we who follow Jesus are weak, despised, and contemptible to those who are wise, strong, and famous (in their own estimation of themselves). But in knowing this..... know that God has chosen the weak, despised, and contemptible tings of this world to put to shame those who are wise, strong and famous, so that they may see that it's not about us, or them, but God, who saves.
then once you have been restored by Jesus.... come back.

And know that we'll always be here, and if we're not, pray for more laborers in the harvest.

Grace and Peace be with you.
Focus on Jesus.

 

[travelah]

Wager I would, many, holding a bag of pearls wishing to share with the world, have lamented upon threads, found upon this board, which have devolved into your “in-laws” holiday banquet, typical in nature, of swine trampling underfoot the afore mentioned pearls you wished to share.

Ha! That sentence just murdered English composition.

 

[SteveB]

Ha! That sentence just murdered English composition.

Only for people who are anally retentive, and need to have it so.

 

[travelah]

Only for people who are anally retentive, and need to have it so.

Desiring decent composition and grammar is not an anal retentive trait. LOL

 

[SteveB]

Desiring decent composition and grammar is not an anal retentive trait. LOL

Ironically, I didn't have a problem with it, and I'm generally anally retentive when it comes to making sure I understand.
Are you one of the lucky ones who don't ever have to deal with unpleasant family dynamics during the holidays?

 

[travelah]

Ironically, I didn't have a problem with it, and I'm generally anally retentive when it comes to making sure I understand.
Are you one of the lucky ones who don't ever have to deal with unpleasant family dynamics during the holidays?

I am

 

[SteveB]

I am

then yes, I'd agree that the first sentence of their post would make no sense to you. It's not a matter of grammar. It's simply a matter of inexperience.
Not all are so fortunate.
I have long since ceased spending time with my family during the holidays. Thankfully, my in-laws were great people, so I enjoyed their company while they were alive.

 

[travelah]

then yes, I'd agree that the first sentence of their post would make no sense to you. It's not a matter of grammar. It's simply a matter of inexperience.
Not all are so fortunate.
I have long since ceased spending time with my family during the holidays. Thankfully, my in-laws were great people, so I enjoyed their company while they were alive.

I did not say I did not understand it. The sentence is a composition wreckage. Now, move along. You are now being argumentative.

 

[SteveB]

I did not say I did not understand it. The sentence is a composition wreckage. Now, move along. You are now being argumentative.

And yet you choose to criticize the individual for saying something that you didn't have any experience with, but thought it important to make sure they knew your disapproval.

Seems to me that the argument started with your initial post.

 

[JAG]

Wager I would, many, holding a bag of pearls wishing to share with the world, have lamented upon threads, found upon this board, which have devolved into your “in-laws” holiday banquet, typical in nature, of swine trampling underfoot the afore mentioned pearls you wished to share.

Often, likely sure of this I am, you have taken requisite time for crafting a carefully composed OP or response in hopes of promoting an environment suitable for realizing an equitable and meaningful exchange of ideas; hoping to reap of treasures new and old or for another to learn from your wisdom with thy targeted audience being likely lurkers and wallowers. Yet within minutes, an endless eternity of time for the respondent to no doubt fully digest and ruminate upon your carefully crafted composition, a reply from said participating cyber entity with a keyboard comes thundering through with, after you have fully given rightful thoughtful consideration, a pre-canned response reeking of thrice regurgitated dog vomit posted manyatime above in the multi-hundred replies of the thread; or from a theological church bulletin collected the previous Sunday (or Sabbath for those Sabbatarians); or the talking points of their denominations belief system: or worse yet, the same baseless statement presented as facts having no supporting evidence along with the assumption, and at times outright claim, it is the readers’ job to “Google it”; this wallflower has even seen such a post ended with the statement, “We have all the facts on our side! It’s not my job to do your homework.” after having been asked for supporting evidence.

Furthermore, too often it happens, appears a post does which provokes thought from an angle not yet explored yet a collective hive mind of thundering bullhorns captivates the participants and the post is ignored and cast into the oblivion of apologetics Doctrinal ipecac.

Peradventure then a wallflower, generally speaking such as this, comes upon such a thread in search of wisdom and understanding: what experience is desirable for wallflowers, aka lurkers, to have and what expectations should such have when attempting to gleam wisdom from a thread full of piets standing behind a multitude of pulpits adorned with outlandish bullhorns shouting ever louder at each other neigh-obscenities, to only mention the polite ones, at volumes well past eleven?

Additionally, What advise would you have for wallflowers when reading these threads?

■ A fascinating and interesting OP.
I enjoyed reading it.
■ You enjoy writing. You love words. Me too.
■ There were shades of Yoda in your OP.
"Enjoyed your OP, I did"__JAG
■ Your "thrice regurgitated dog vomit" was a graphic and interesting metaphor.
■ By the way, welcome to the forum.
■ One man's "supporting evidence" is another man's trash and nonsense.
■ Back to Yoda: "May The Farce be with you."
■ I love John 3:16.
John 3:16 presents you with a choice:
{1} believe and receive eternal life
{2} refuse to believe and perish
■ Also the Lord Jesus said Behold I stand at the door and knock
and anyone that will open the door, I will come in and have supper
with that man and he with me -- Jesus was talking about salvation.
Rev. 3:20
■ The Lord Jesus said, "Have faith in God." {Mark 11:22}
■ My view: Intellectual Philosophical Academic Talking Heads are unhappy
inside their heart of hearts even though they make a big pretense show to be
"intellectuals" and to "have it all together." Many of them worship the
False-god-Intellect or the False-god-Science.
■ The great Apostle Paul said "Now these three remain: Faith, Hope, and Love.
But the greatest of these is Love." {that's in 1 Cor. 13}
■ Thank you for reading my miscellaneous points.

Thought For Today:

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing,
but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent
I will frustrate." 1 Cor. 1:18-19

Best Regards,

JAG

 

[travelah]

And yet you choose to criticize the individual for saying something that you didn't have any experience with, but thought it important to make sure they knew your disapproval.

Seems to me that the argument started with your initial post.

here you are responding again lol Go Away ... wait, I'll help you go away.

 

[JAG]

Furthermore, too often it happens, appears a post does which provokes thought from an angle not yet explored yet a collective hive mind of thundering bullhorns captivates the participants and the post is ignored and cast into the oblivion of apologetics Doctrinal ipecac.

"Furthermore, too often it happens, appears a post does which provokes thought from an angle not yet explored yet a collective hive mind of thundering bullhorns captivates the participants and the post is ignored and cast into the oblivion of apologetics Doctrinal ipecac."___Lottan

"appears a post does"__Lottan
I love your Yoda-isms

"collective hive mind"__Lottan
Another cool metaphor

"the oblivion of apologetics Doctrinal ipecac"__Lottan
Ah you have a "way with words" -- I love it.

ipecac - the dried rhizome of a South American shrub, or a drug
prepared from this, used as an emetic and expectorant.

___________


■ Christianity is a faith.
Christianity is not a philosophical intellectualized academic "system"
"Have faith in God"__The Lord Jesus
"Without faith it is impossible to please God, for he that comes to God
must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly
seek Him" {that's in Hebrews chapter 11}
■ I have a mental file folder for most difficult questions presented
by Secular Humanists. The name of that mental file folder is titled "The
Secret Things Belong To God' -- you can find that title in Deut. 29:29
■ Some Secular Humanists -- who worship the False-god-Science and
the False-god-Intellect do not like my File Folder -- but I wear their distain
as a badge of honor -- moreover there is nothing they can do to eradicate
my File Folder. What could they possibly do?
{1} Remove my name from their Prayer List?
{2} Stop paying my Light & water bill?
{3} Stop paying my taxes?
{4} Put me on ignore {this would greatly please me}

Best Regards,

JAG

 

[JAG]

Additionally, What advise would you have for wallflowers when reading these threads?

Miscellaneous Points:
The Internet is by nature adversarial.
And the juice is in the controversy.
Understand the concept of enemy and you will
understand the Internet.
The next concept you must understand is that posters
will deny that they are your enemy -- while at the same
time posting to you in the same way an enemy would
post to you. Hypocrites much?
Back to the juice is in the controversy:
Nobody likes such as this:
Red is a great color.
Yeah I love red.
Oh yeah red is really a nice color.
I love red.
Me too, red is so cool.
Long live red.
I just love red so much.
Yeah me too. Red is just swell.
I love red too

That puts everybody to sleep because the juice
is in the controversy. Human nature.

Best.

JAG

 

[Berserk]

4 RELEVANT FAMOUT QUOTES

"The simple Gospel is not so simple as the simple would have you suppose (B. F. Wescott. pioneering Text Critic)."

"The more a man looks at a thing the less he can see it, and the more a man learns a thing the less he knows it (G. K. Chesterton, with reference to the movement in England to replace juries of peers with professional lawyers).

"Most Christians have just enough spirituality to inoculate them against the real thing (Billy Graham)."

"I like my religion the way I like my tea--hot, 'cause I'd rather be a fool on fire than a scholar on ice and it's easier to cool a hot coal than to warm up a corpse. Honestly, when I drive by dem liberal churches, I take my hat off out of respect for the dead (an old evangelist with reference to trolls who dominate Christian discussion forums)."

 

[Lottan]

Thank you everyone! Considering my choice of grammar was intentional I believe my point was made. The sad reality is that even posts regarding poor form found within apologetics threads, in spite of expecting some “juice” as it was called along with an expected level of consternation and conflict, the thread will inevitably include ... I’ll let y’all fill it in from here.

May we all be better than we are today and thank you for participating.

Happy New Year!

 

[Lottan]

All of that said I would highly encourage everyone to be mindful of posting behavior on these forums. A massive amount of communication is made through body language and tone of voice which is something we do not have the luxury of on text based forums. As such, a poorly worded post has a much greater risk of cutting off the ears of someone you may have otherwise been able to lead to Christ or help along their journey in search of truth with you having neither the intention or or desire. Worse yet, what if this happens without your knowledge?

One thing is most certainly a complete ear buster for this wallflower is outright name calling; there are a few in this community I won’t even listen too anymore. These people had no meaningful contact with me and my decision had nothing to do with their arguments or sources/reasons for belief: it was solely based on name calling and scorn (i.e. posting behavior).

A bit of advice from a wallflower (aka lurker) who you may be able to influence in the future: Please do strive to make this a community worth participating in and inviting for others to join. On our doorstep is 2021: let’s make it better than 2020.

 

[Lottan]

Oh one last thing: thank you all for your kind advice. There are indeed some points made above which I had not considered on how to make the most of this site.