DesiringGod (John Piper) answers TomFL!

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TomFL

Guest
It has to do with you because I asked you a question...

Do you think that Provisionalists should work as hard to keep Open Theism from infiltrating their Churches?
So it has nothing to do with me personally

Do you have a ling so I may see it?

I already answered yes
 

Sketo

Well-known member
Wrong Tom denied Adam sinned because Gof hgave him the desire to sin

Calvinism did that

If God merely foresaw human events, and did not also arrange and dispose of them at his pleasure, there might be room for agitating the question, how far his foreknowledge amounts to necessity; but since he foresees the things which are to happen, simply because he has decreed that they are so to happen, it is vain to debate about prescience, while it is clear that all events take place by his sovereign appointment.
Institutes of the Christian Religion. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)

…God is the only being who is ultimately self-determining, and is himself ultimately the disposer of all things, including all choices — however many or diverse other intervening causes are. On this definition, no human being has free will, at any time. Neither before or after the fall, or in heaven, are creatures ultimately self-determining. There are great measures of self-determination, as the Bible often shows, but never is man the ultimate or decisive cause of his preferences and choices. When man’s agency and God’s agency are compared, both are real, but God’s is decisive
beginners guide to free will

“God . . . brings about all things in accordance with his will. In other words, it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory (see Ex. 9:13-16; John 9:3) and his people’s good (see Heb. 12:3-11; James 1:2-4). This includes—as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem—God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child…


Nothing that exists or occurs falls outside God’s ordaining will. Nothing, including no evil person or thing or event or deed. God’s foreordination is the ultimate reason why everything comes about, including the existence of all evil persons and things and the occurrence of any evil acts or events. And so it is not inappropriate to take God to be the creator, the sender, the permitter, and sometimes even the instigator of evil… Nothing — no evil thing or person or event or deed — falls outside God’s ordaining will. Nothing arises, exists, or endures independently of God’s will. So when even the worst of evils befall us, they do not ultimately come from anywhere other than God’s hand.

b Talbot, "All the Good That Is Ours in Christ", in Suffering and the Sovereignty of God, ed. John Piper and Justin Taylor,

how foolish and frail is the support of divine justice afforded by the suggestion that evils come to be, not by His will but by His permission…It is a quite frivolous refuge to say that God otiosely permits them, when Scripture shows Him not only willing, but the author of them…Who does not tremble at these judgments with which God works in the hearts of even the wicked whatever He will, rewarding them nonetheless according to desert? Again it is quite clear from the evidence of Scripture that God works in the hearts of men to incline their wills just as he will, whether to good for His mercy’s sake, or to evil according to their merits. ” (John Calvin, “The Eternal Predestination of God,” 10:11)

and none of them are Tomfl

You got the wrong party

John Pipers addresses your concern here...

 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
well what do you think would happen if you employed someone one to commit a crime. Would you be innocent under the law ?
I would not be innocent at all...

But ask the others if that's what they are saying; you know I don't say God determines people to Sin...
 
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TomFL

Guest
I would not be innocent at all...

But ask the others if that's what they are saying; you know I don't say God determines people to Sin...
Exactly

Secondary sources if determined do nothing to vindicate the author of the crime

PS I am glad you do not !!!!:):):)
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Exactly

Secondary sources if determined do nothing to vindicate the author of the crime

PS I am glad you do not !!!!:):):)
Thanks...

Secondary Causations if Determined don't make God Culpable when he Had Good Meaning...
 
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ReverendRV

Well-known member
Is there good in all sin ?
Is there good in all sin ?
No; but there is Good Meaning in all that comes to pass. The Biblical example are Joseph's brothers, their Evil Meaning had nothing to do with God's Good Meaning; which was explained to be the Saving of Many lives. Over 100,000 unborn Lives were Saved because of the Sin of Joseph's Brothers; and God Meant that for the Good...
 
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TomFL

Guest
No; but there is Good Meaning in all that comes to pass. The Biblical example are Joseph's brothers, their Evil Meaning had nothing to do with God's Good Meaning; which was explained to be the Saving of Many lives. Over 100,000 unborn Lives were Saved because of the Sin of Joseph's Brothers; and God Meant that for the Good...
??????????


Sin comes to pass
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
??????????


Sin comes to pass
Sin comes to pass from us. God even meant Slavery for Good...

It's time to go 'Atheist Mode', on how all which comes to pass is Good because God Meant it for Good; did God mean Slavery for Good?
 
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